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Talbot Street Lock In

Jonathan said:
I believe it was back when we were on TTF, but yeah - I'm fairly certain it's true. :p
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It's quite amazing (to me, at least) that the CEO didn't know the extent of it beforehand.

The biggest park, and on home territory, you'd expect Mr. Varney to be paying fairly regular visits...
 
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WillPS said:
It's quite amazing (to me, at least) that the CEO didn't know the extent of it beforehand.

The biggest park, and on home territory, you'd expect Mr. Varney to be paying fairly regular visits...
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To be fair, that would be horrible micromanaging, with such a huge company it's not really the CEO's job to be aware of relatively minor things like that. But you would hope that the general culture in Merlin/Alton Towers would have said no to plastering the area with awful adverts before the idea ever went ahead. Maybe they even thought Varney would love it!

Also, a great open response by Nick Varney, I'd forgotten all about that.
 
OilyWater said:
To be fair, that would be horrible micromanaging, with such a huge company it's not really the CEO's job to be aware of relatively minor things like that. But you would hope that the general culture in Merlin/Alton Towers would have said no to plastering the area with awful adverts before the idea ever went ahead. Maybe they even thought Varney would love it!

Also, a great open response by Nick Varney, I'd forgotten all about that.
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Micromanaging is not the same as seeing what's going on at ground level. Retail bosses tend to visit stores regularly.
 
From what I recall this Fanta sponsorship was only up a few months before Varney sent that reply right? It's not unrealistic to expect him to only visit the park once maybe twice per season. Especially as Merlin have over 100 attractions worldwide.
 
WillPS said:
Micromanaging is not the same as seeing what's going on at ground level. Retail bosses tend to visit stores regularly.
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He did visit though, it was gone within a month I remember (I visited twice that summer), it was more the approval in the first place that he cant be expected to approve every decision that goes on at the parks.. he did get the worst parts removed thankfully
 
A brand refresh in 2005 saw the park map take on a distinctive new Habbo Hotel style.

Meanwhile in the park, the run of questionable decisions continued with the closure of Black Hole and opening of Rita - Queen of Speed. UG Land had just 5 seasons as a prehistoric playground before it was overtaken by the dino/racing hybrid that was the Thunder Rock Rally.

Big changes were also afoot over in Cred Street, where several attractions had their final season, including the much-missed Toyland Tours.
2005.jpg
 
Plastic Person said:
Yes, admittedly I'm biased as I was visiting the park a lot around 2004, whereas in the past five years, my visits have been infrequent. I've particularly enjoyed the debate in this topic, however, it's a telling reminder of how nostalgia can either blinker or batter your memory.
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I have to admit that writing these updates for Lock In has really thrown into sharp relief just how bad this period was. This past week the writing has been reaaaaally slow going because the pickings have been slim and the few things that were being added have either been discussed to death or were utter dross (or both).

I've come to the conclusion that after spending the years up to 2002 building the park of their aspirations, 2004-2007 was spent systematically destroying it.
 
Burbs said:
Interesting style of map that. Makes the park look quite sparse in my view.
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Generally the reviews at the time were quite similar, especially in contrast to the map it replaced. It did get better the next year with quite a lot of added touches.
 
I remember that new map design being ‘revealed’ at the Black Hole closure event in early March 2005. The reaction was quite ‘subdued’ to say the least.
 
I’ve got a question for those of you who visited the park during both periods; which of the “decline” periods was worse in your eyes out of 2004-2007 (or “the late Tussauds era leading up to the Merlin buyout”. I wouldn’t really like to pinpoint a specific timeline) and 2015-2017 (or “the struggle post-Smiler crash”)?

Admittedly, I never experienced the park during the mid 2000s, but I’d probably say 2004-2007, as even though the 2015-2017 park definitely gave off the impression of financial struggles far more, the decline in the mid-2000s in terms of ride removals and operations seemed far, far sharper and more pronounced than anything seen during 2015-2017 from what actually happened in terms of removals.

Out of interest, did the park struggle financially in the mid-2000s when these cuts were put into place?
 
Matt N said:
I’ve got a question for those of you who visited the park during both periods; which of the “decline” periods was worse in your eyes out of 2004-2007 (or “the late Tussauds era leading up to the Merlin buyout”. I wouldn’t really like to pinpoint a specific timeline) and 2015-2017 (or “the struggle post-Smiler crash”)?

Admittedly, I never experienced the park during the mid 2000s, but I’d probably say 2004-2007, as even though the 2015-2017 park definitely gave off the impression of financial struggles far more, the decline in the mid-2000s in terms of ride removals and operations seemed far, far sharper and more pronounced than anything seen during 2015-2017 from what actually happened in terms of removals.

Out of interest, did the park struggle financially in the mid-2000s when these cuts were put into place?
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Oh, definitely 2004-2007 without a doubt, partially due to the sharp contrast to what had been going on in the years directly before and partially because the mistakes made during that period still reverberate around the park today.

The mistakes made during that period are still having a negative impact on the park now and in many ways whilst they obviously did not cause the issues on 2015-2017, they certainly exasperated those problems.
 
It was a sad year for Toyland Tours in '05 I remember looking up the demo on ATA when it became Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, I was depressed and quite distraught as it was my fav ride in the park since the beginning of 2001 and I have very fondant memories, from the flamboyant soundtrack to the Bouncy Castles that bounced inside the boat ride, the characters especially the Busty Hippo. I just wished they did an eBay sale. For the Black Hole that really needed to go as it was getting old but it went tremendously for a legacy attraction at Alton and it shall be remembered.
 
Its the removal of Boneshaker and Dynamo and other smaller rids that felt like they have had a bigger long-term effect in some ways.
Yes the Swan boat removal at the time was not good but in the long-term battle galleon (despite being too wet for me to ever want to ride) is a nice well-themed addition. Also Sea Life replacing the 3D cinema was pretty good in the long-term.

Unfortuantly Charlie and the Choc factory was great in theory, but let down by poor show scenes and not enough animatronics and action, it all just looked a bit empty, but the glass elevators were pretty good.

Rita of course was a bit of an odd addition, but wasn't awful and could have worked if the theming mash-up was done better, Thunder Rock certainly felt better than Dark Forest.
 
In fairness to Alton Towers, Dynamo very rarely got much of a queue even on busy days. Like Submission, most of the time it ran empty.

It was a great ride but its impact, tucked away like that, was rather low compared to say Ripsaw or even The Blade.

What really struck me at the time was how Boneshaker and Dynamo were left SBNO for quite so long though - given they are both flat rides it shouldn't have been that way, perhaps the Armond-led management team really did intend for it to be a temporary measure and to have them reopen soon.

Boneshaker had a fence put up in front of it, but given the biggest impact that ride had was from the Sky Ride it was a bit of a naff effort.
 
It's fair to say 2005 wasn't a good year for the park. I can understand why the park didn't operate the Black Hole again but it was sad. I'm just glad that Merlin didn't make the same mistake with Bubbleworks and replace it badly, whereas Toyland Tours was completely destroyed to be replaced by a terrible 2D/ 3D attraction which didn't get a good reception!
 
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