They can't do this can they?

[Ellaoftheball]

I'm on Maternity leave at the moment, only been on maternity leave for 2 weeks so far.
I've been talking casually to a friend (she works for the same company as me) who usually (when I'm not on maternity leave) is managed and reports into me. She has a 4 year old, since covid we have all been working from home, she's been working from home with her 4 year old, sometimes he overhears and occasionally interrupts video meetings/calls, we all didn't see a problem with it and i certainly didn't see a problem with it but now my replacement according to my friend has complained internally saying he's apparently a "breach of confidentiality" and they're apparently considering sacking her! They can't sack her for this can they? A 4 year old is not a breach of confidentiality in my opinion.

 

[jon81uk]

I'm on Maternity leave at the moment, only been on maternity leave for 2 weeks so far.
I've been talking casually to a friend (she works for the same company as me) who usually (when I'm not on maternity leave) is managed and reports into me. She has a 4 year old, since covid we have all been working from home, she's been working from home with her 4 year old, sometimes he overhears and occasionally interrupts video meetings/calls, we all didn't see a problem with it and i certainly didn't see a problem with it but now my replacement according to my friend has complained internally saying he's apparently a "breach of confidentiality" and they're apparently considering sacking her! They can't sack her for this can they? A 4 year old is not a breach of confidentiality in my opinion.

It doesn't sound like gross misconduct, but they could start disciplinary proceedings if they feel the lack of childcare arrangements is causing a distraction. I agree with you "breach of confidentiality" is a load of rubbish, but if they think they are distracted and not working to the best of their ability they could look at a disciplinary although I expect it would just end with a first warning at most, although there could be discussions around finding better childcare or changing hours if needed etc.
May be worth talking to a union rep as they will know a lot more than me!

 

[Ellaoftheball]

It doesn't sound like gross misconduct, but they could start disciplinary proceedings if they feel the lack of childcare arrangements is causing a distraction. I agree with you "breach of confidentiality" is a load of rubbish, but if they think they are distracted and not working to the best of their ability they could look at a disciplinary although I expect it would just end with a first warning at most, although there could be discussions around finding better childcare or changing hours if needed etc.
May be worth talking to a union rep as they will know a lot more than me!

Some of the board level staff are working from home with kids! She has emailed her union rep but not had a response yet.

 

[Ellaoftheball]

I know the women who is my replacement because she used to work at this company years ago and I managed her too and she's a jobsworth to say the least.

 

[jon81uk]

Some of the board level staff are working from home with kids! She has emailed her union rep but not had a response yet.

Every person and every child is different of course, some people get distracted more easily (like me with this forum) and others can set their child a task and go back to working.
It should be about their performance though, not the fact there is a child in the house of course.
But union is best placed to advise.

 

[Ellaoftheball]

Every person and every child is different of course, some people get distracted more easily (like me with this forum) and others can set their child a task and go back to working.
It should be about their performance though, not the fact there is a child in the house of course.
But union is best placed to advise.

When I'm not on Maternity leave I'm the head of department and she's one of the 2 senior managers I manage, she's our top performing member of the team and was all the way through lockdown when working from home with her child like now!

 

[Matt.GC]

I don't work from home but I do occasionally do Teams calls from home and the kids often interupt me. As do other people's sometimes. On face value, I've never heard so much nonsense. The devil will be in the detail on this so feel free to PM me if there's any specifics you can't post on here that need to be considered as I can tell you exactly what they can and cannot do (I'm a very experienced disciplinary, grievance and appeals manager and used to dealing with these such cases and the aftermath).

As @jon81uk has already correctly said, they can't just sack her. It depends what they're trying to pin on her. Is it confidentially? If so are we talking business sensitive material, GDPR or data around other children? Is it work performance for not having childcare provisions that means she's not able to perform in the role that's expected of her? What union is she represented by as well? Some unions are notoriously rubbish when you ask for help on these matters, always better to go to a local representative rather than calling the union direct if so. Many unions also don't get involved in cases unless you were already a member before the case arose.

In short the answer is no. If she has no other disciplinary warnings for the same kind of thing, they can't summarily dismiss her for gross misconduct. If the data being discussed was highly sensitive such as under GDPR, sensitive stuff about the protection of children or being discussed under an NDA and an adult or older child walked in then she can possibly be dismissed. But I can tell you there isn't a tribunal in the land that wouldn't find in her favour in terms of a 4 year old, especially at the moment!

She can only be dismissed for confidentiality reasons if an investigation finds that other people may have been able to listen to the data, they may choose to go down the 'your meeting was not secure' route. But again, if this is just general business numbers rather than the juicy stuff I mentioned above whilst they're asking people to work from home due to a global pandemic then they'd find it hard to lay a finger on her. It would be laughed out at appeal.

Then there's the process to consider. How does she know they want to sack her? Has her manager conducted an investigation already and then and told her that she's being investigated for gross misconduct (the correct process)? Or has her manager expressed that she intends to sack her? If it's the latter, then this should be perceived as either a threat or pre empting the outcome of an investigation. Both would land this manager in hot water (I would then be investigating the manager for misconduct myself) and would not stand up for your employer at Tribunal. Also worthy of note that if your colleagues manager is conducting the investigation, it's not her decision to sack her anyway. That would need to be another line manager for impartially reasons. Again, if this isn't followed it would be laughed out of a tribunal.

When considering disciplinaries and appeals, I also consider the circumstances behind the misconduct (was it intentional? What is the impact to business? etc), whether the sanction will correct the misconduct (summary dismissal would need a serious breach), was the process carried out correctly (thorough investigation, representation offered, investigating manager different to the disciplinary manager, all facts considered, training records/contract T&C's,) would this stand up in an employment tribunal and would it protect the business reputation? On the last 2 points, a global pandemic is meaning people have to work from home sometimes (some mitigation right there) and in a country where employers should be doing everything in their power to ensure women are able to have successful careers, sacking a woman for having a 4 year old interupt a meeting is sailing way to close to a sexual discrimination case for your employer. I'm not saying to play the gender card here, I'm just trying to think about how a tribunal or someone higher up in your company may see it because that certainly doesn't make your employer look very inclusive does it? The fact we're even talking about this makes me concerned about how inclusive your employer is, when I'm holding a call I'll ask for the room to be secure but we just stop and all say hello to whoever's kid walks in, I wouldn't dream of threatening dismissing someone over it. Even my last employer, who were known rouges and broke the Equality Act when dealing with me wouldn't do that.

Look at it like this - She has every right to have a successful career, every right to work from home at the moment, every right to have a child and every right to have her child to live in said home with her. A slap on the wrist, even lower warning maybe but what needs to be considered is that 4 year old kids will be 4 year old kids. I'd say under these circumstances she'll be perfectly fine.

Again, the devil will be in the detail (trust me, it always is in these things as sometime you can think something is open and shut until you read the case file). But on face value, they certainly can't sack her and if they did it looks like it would not stack up in tribunal at all.

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[Rob]

I'm going to lock this thread, as I do not see it as something that needs to be discussed on a public forum (unlike social media, a forum is not always the best place to discuss such personal and/or speicific circumstances). Plus @Matt.GC has given a good thorough response above.

Thanks.