Huh? I think you've made a mistake
-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
2021: General Discussion
- Thread starter Skyscraper
- Start date
- Status
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Plastic Person
TS Member
I've said it many a time before... one of the sites that bidded for EuroDisney was off the M42 near the NEC. Obviously, as we all know they were unsuccessful in their bid & Disney went to Paris. But can you imagine how the previous & current owners of Alton Towers would have had to upped their game through the roof to compete with Disney on their doorstep (it would have been within an hours drive from Towers)? Quite simply had Disney chosen the UK, we would not have the Merlin Entertainments we have today, it would have to have a totally different attitude, operating model & investment schedule for it's RTP's.
And for the record, those of us who have been to any Disney park know that it is far from a cheap day out - nor is staying in their on-site accommodation. I can't think that Disney pay their Cast Members much over what the minimum required wage is in any country they operate in - but the difference in quality of your day out / stay is huge.
I would suggest, as above, Senior Management attitude from the CEO down in Poole is filtering down to the RTP management, which then filters down the ranks at the parks to the front line staff.
Alton Towers used to do "back to the floor" days for Senior Management, where they spent a day working on a ride. These were a stage-managed farce. When we had Ralph Armond on Nemesis in the Valley the rota was jigged for the day so that any "off-message" staff were conveniently off / litter picking for the day. The ride was staffed by operators & "on-message" staff who actually wanted to be at Towers. Result: Management go away thinking that all is good and rosy, happy guests, very efficient ride operation etc. Normal service resumed the next day!
Oh. I wish he wasn't haha. Wish it was openHe was joking mate
Matt.GC
TS Member
Ah yes, 'Royal Visits' as we call them in retail. I've stage managed a number of these myself for the easy life, it's 100% true. Those that are likely to cause offensive to the bubble wrapped big cheeses are put on different shifts or hidden away on lunch breaks. I'm usually meticulously briefed on what to say and when to say it. The schedules are ramped up by removing hours from other days to create the illusion all is well. It's much harder when they do these "back to the floor" kind of days because you have to keep the false façade up for much longer.
I have been repeatedly been asked over the years why we do this and not just let them "see it as it is". Well there's a level of egotism involved in many top dogs who are committed to always being right and never wrong, they certainly don't want to see it as it is, they want to see what they want to see for their own egos. The simple answer is, a number of people have tried this over the years and they disappear, never to be seen again shortly afterwards. Grin and bear an hour or even a few hours of fear for a few more weeks of employment.
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
I have been repeatedly been asked over the years why we do this and not just let them "see it as it is". Well there's a level of egotism involved in many top dogs who are committed to always being right and never wrong, they certainly don't want to see it as it is, they want to see what they want to see for their own egos. The simple answer is, a number of people have tried this over the years and they disappear, never to be seen again shortly afterwards. Grin and bear an hour or even a few hours of fear for a few more weeks of employment.
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Is it possible that due to the size of Merlin, Nick Varney and the top Merlin board are so high up within the company that they’re quite far removed from what happens down “on the ground”, so to speak, so have a very different idea of what things are like compared to what they’re actually like?
An example of this that comes to mind for me was Fantagate in 2011, when Oblivion was adorned in Fanta sponsorship and TowersTimes (in an effort that I think was fronted by @AstroDan) wrote to Nick Varney in uproar. As it turned out, Nick had no idea that the sponsorship had even happened, and ordered for all of the signage to be removed once he’d found out and gone and seen it for himself.
The point I’m trying to get across is that I’m sure the Merlin board do care, and the message is just twisted a bit on the long way down to the front line staff. Nick Varney has always struck me as a very down-to-earth, caring individual who has a lot of love for Merlin’s properties whenever I’ve heard him speak in interviews and Q&As; it’s worth remembering that he was one of the key spearheads behind Alton Towers’ supposed “golden age” in the 1990s, so he must care about the staff and the guest experience at these places.
An example of this that comes to mind for me was Fantagate in 2011, when Oblivion was adorned in Fanta sponsorship and TowersTimes (in an effort that I think was fronted by @AstroDan) wrote to Nick Varney in uproar. As it turned out, Nick had no idea that the sponsorship had even happened, and ordered for all of the signage to be removed once he’d found out and gone and seen it for himself.
The point I’m trying to get across is that I’m sure the Merlin board do care, and the message is just twisted a bit on the long way down to the front line staff. Nick Varney has always struck me as a very down-to-earth, caring individual who has a lot of love for Merlin’s properties whenever I’ve heard him speak in interviews and Q&As; it’s worth remembering that he was one of the key spearheads behind Alton Towers’ supposed “golden age” in the 1990s, so he must care about the staff and the guest experience at these places.
How can anything happen in a business without the CEO knowing? Surely all decisions should go through him ans he should know everything
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Bigger decisions probably go through Varney, but smaller issues are probably handled by people lower down in the Merlin hierarchy. With a company as big as Merlin, I don’t think Nick alone would be able to control everything.
AT86
TS Member
For a business the size of Merlin it is impossible for the CEO to be aware of every decision that is made across the business. That is why they employ managers further down the organisation.
CEO will be setting the strategy, along with the rest of the board and make sure the rest of the company achieves this and they probably sign off on big capex projects. But day to day running is never going to be something the CEO is deeply involved in.
CEO will be setting the strategy, along with the rest of the board and make sure the rest of the company achieves this and they probably sign off on big capex projects. But day to day running is never going to be something the CEO is deeply involved in.
Well I hope whoever thought fanta sponsorship was a good idea got sacked
TheAverageNerd
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
A bit harsh as ultimately it was a harmless, albeit garish, mistake. It also wouldn't have been a single persons decision, you have to think about how many people are involved in a sponsorship deal like that.
ChristmasPud
TS Member
I asked around and most the jobs are still pretty much the same pay rate (relative for inflation) as they were 5-10 years ago, except for last year after covid. They've seemingly stayed slightly above minimum for a long time, with regular increases with inflation. But have now become minimum after the last national wage increase in April.
Merlin also made a huge tonne management redundancies and I saw changed the divisional director roles to 'general managers' likely to pay them less. So its not just bottom line staff getting less after covid.
Merlin also made a huge tonne management redundancies and I saw changed the divisional director roles to 'general managers' likely to pay them less. So its not just bottom line staff getting less after covid.
Last edited:
Matt.GC
TS Member
Merlin wouldn't have many employees left if that was the case because they've done far worse to their parks since.
In the context of talking about what it's like to work at Towers this season, the last thing a CEO should be doing is controlling everything themselves. Managers and front line colleagues should absolutely have local autonomy and have some creative freedom, even if that means making mistakes. It's an incredibly important pillar in achieving job satisfaction and a healthy culture of feeling valued and trusted.
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
It wasn't really difficult to keep it up for a day, as the staff are rota'd onto a ride for the entire day (with the exception of the Nemesis/Ripsaw relief host (who covered 2 breaks on each ride). Ride to be operated exactly as per the manual - none of the local variations that normally happened! You just made sure the "off-message" staff with the litter sticks and bags for the day were told to use the Gloomy Wood greenroom for their breaks. All the Valley staff were told to behave in the main Valley greenroom - no swearing / no smoking in the non-smoking greenroom / clear up your food wrappers & coffee cups, be back of breaks bang on time or even a minute early. Maccies staff banned from the "Air Gates" greenroom for the day etc (even though most of them used the Skyride Maindrive one) etc.
Why the Maccies staff ban on "the day"? They were notorious for just leaving all their rubbish all over the place and not tidying up. Their language was pretty bad too with at least one expletive per sentence. If you asked them to clear up their rubbish you were invariably told to "f off".
One of the permanent litter pickers - sorry, cleansing operatives - sorted them out a few weeks later. He went to Skyride Maindrive greenroom for a coffee and it was a tip with Maccies rubbish everywhere. When he'd finished his coffee, he picked up all the rubbish (making sure some of the drink lids with liquid in were loose). He then went up to Maccies and made his way to the counter and just threw all the rubbish into the kitchen saying "you left this behind" and walked off. Respect. The rubbish went everywhere giving the Maccies team a nice clean-up job.
Steve74
TS Member
That's a great story about the McDs staff, I'm guessing that (or at least their attitude towards Towers staff) was one of the nails in their coffin for the franchise?
Curious to know purely from a geeky point of view, where are the greenrooms you mention? Of course it's obvious staff have to have staff rooms, but I've never really thought about how many there are or where they're situated. Also, is there a main staff canteen where hot meals are served?
The nail in the coffin for McD's going was Tussauds (think they still owned Towers back in 2008) being very greedy. The "brand partners" so McD's, Pizza Hut & KFC, signed a 10yr contract to start in 1998 & put their catering into Tussauds parks. When the contract came up for renewal 10yrs later Tussauds wanted to put the rent up through the roof (and some) - so McD's just walked, along with their equipment from the units. Am pretty sure KFC and Pizza Hut also walked away as I'd guess it was about the 2008 season when Pizza Pasta opened. On the burger front, a company called Karali were prepared to pay the high unit rent, hence Burger King appearing at the 3 RTP's.
There is a staff canteen in what used to be called Magic HQ (basically behind Sealife). You sometimes had to be rather brave to dine in there though as the food quality could be variable. There was a hilarious lady who worked on the servery - I'm not naming her, but suffice it to say I suspect she was from Eastern Europe. When it was turn to be served she would ask "Wot you want?" [you'd be served], She would then serve another person while you moved to the till. After serving the next person she'd hop onto the till and ask "Wot you got?". Err, what you served me about 2mins ago!
As to greenrooms - the ones I know are...
X-Sector - when walking along the Oblivion exit path, look right. There is a house clearly visible, that's it.
Gloomy Wood - behind Duel
Forbidden Valley - under Skyride maindrive
Forbidden Valley - behind the gates next to Galactica's first drop (the gates to the evening path for hotel guests to access RCR)
I think there is also one in the Courtyard by Wicker Man.
No idea where the one serving Dark Forest area is, as never covered any rides there. EDIT - it may be somewhere down the path to the left of the Theatre in TWoDW, as I have often seen staff heading down there. This is the old path to "coaster corner" and as the area is disused a portakabin could easily be down there as a greenroom.
Last edited:
AstroDan
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance, Cedar Point
Completely unrelated, but possibly useful.
Priority Ride Passes are no longer distributed nor accepted at Alton Towers. These passes were historically given out to guests in a queue line or on a ride that went down for technical reasons and had to be closed. Their use has been stopped as the park seek to limit the number of Fastrack guests using the rides.
I have several here from over the years - here's an example of a more recent one:
Priority Ride Passes are no longer distributed nor accepted at Alton Towers. These passes were historically given out to guests in a queue line or on a ride that went down for technical reasons and had to be closed. Their use has been stopped as the park seek to limit the number of Fastrack guests using the rides.
I have several here from over the years - here's an example of a more recent one:
- Status