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Alton Towers Use of Intellectual Property

Trooper Looper

Trooper Looper

TS Member
Hi everyone. I decided to make this thread as there seems to be a lack of one, how the park IMO overuse IPs.

Don't believe me? How about this.

I decided to count all of the Attractions at the Park on the app, around 40/41 if I remember correctly. A staggering 20 of them are Intellectual property, this includes, The Dungeons, Cbeebies Land, and TWODW...

Half the park is aimed at little kids....(excluding the Dungeons of course, but who even goes on that anyway?)

I always found these areas very lackluster when compared to the other half, which is the main reason why most people visit the park.

it's honestly a little depressing. The Best park in the UK, and only half of it earns The reputation of it, while the other half is just cash grab gimmicks.

Let me know below what you guys think of this :)
 
I'd say in general the UK has gone down the line of IPs for children's areas. It's just easier to market however because of the cost of the IP, either the area budget has to be increased or its quality lowered. Unfortunately it has been the latter at Alton Towers for David Walliams. I definitely think it is possible for Alton Towers to create a good non IP family area if they want to, Paultons has proved that it is possible to profit from non IP areas with Lost Kingdom and Tornado Springs and it looks like Drayton are doing the same with Vikings. If Alton put a show on in the theatre, rethemed the boat ride to something family friendly and perhaps used some of the other SBNO buildings in that area, they could be on to a winner but currently we've got a decent dark ride with awful capacity, a few funfair rides and an upcharge horror themed boat ride + actor experience.
 
I think some IP's make sense for the park and I don't have a problem with them. Particularly cbeebies land which is think is a perfect fit and I have no problem with. The dungeons are sort of an IP but it is already owned by Merlin so is an in-house brand. It allowed them to add a quick cheap attraction without even having to come up with branding. I imagine the dungeon won't last much longer though as it appears to me as a sort of stop-gap.

I think the park have to be careful where they decide to use IP's. For example the SW's last a long time, usually outliving and IP's value so I would be against any SW having an IP, I think that ruins the whole concept of these rides.

Overall I don't think Alton Towers are the worst UK park in terms of IP's, some of them are well used but they could easily fall into the trap that thorpe has done of theming almost every attraction to IP's because it's easier and cheaper to market. I think towers marketing department is much better than thorpe's though and has proven themselves capable of marketing in unique ways meaning they don't really need IP's to the same extent.
 
I don’t mind some IP’s, I think they can work when done well. CBeebies has been popular with little kids for years, long before it came to towers. It’s one of the IP’s which imo has quite a long shelf life and will always draw crowds, id say most uk children are exposed to the CBeebies channel at some point in their lives. As long as they keep the area up to date like they have with getting rid of Tree Fu Tom for Duggee, then it’s fine and it works.

The problem with merlin is apart from
CBeebies, they tend to get IP’s which go out of date/fashion quite quickly. The Walking Dead ride and the Angry Birds area at Thorpe spring to mind, they’d be much better off theming those attractions in house rather than using outdated IP’s with cheap theming.

I’ll be interested to see how the Jumanji area at chessington comes out. I really like the newer Jumanji films and I think it’s an ip that would work very well in a theme park even if the ip goes down in popularity over time.

That said I love Paulton’s for it’s original theming, (apart from peppa world obviously but even that is well themed and maintained) they prove that you don’t need a well known brand to bring in the crowds. Peppa helped them get a leg up but since then they’ve really gone in their own direction. Their theming is high quality and creative, which is what ip theming often lacks.
 
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It all depends on the IP and execution. CBeebies Land is refreshed fairly consistently and delivered with charm, whereas TWODW is half-arsed. A lot of the quality can be dependent on how rigorous and detail-oriented those licensing the IP are. Clearly, the BBC and/or whoever deal with the licensing of their various arms have higher standards than the Walliams estate. I wouldn't necessarily equate Sealife and Dungeons as 'brands' as equivalent to the aforementioned TV and literature properties, their presence is there to reinforce the Merlin portfolio and brand rather than an external device to lure in those who might not even otherwise consider a theme park as a day out or short break.

The expectations of an IP-holder can often drive a project in the right direction. Universal's work with the Harry Potter franchise changed the industry. But when they're working with properties they can easily access - Despicable Me, Jimmy Fallon and most notoriously, The Fast and The Furious - the results have been formulaic.

I think Alton's IPs are fairly classy and appropriate, and always have been since the days of Peter Rabbit, whereas Thorpe's are almost all already dated for a younger, more trend-oriented audience. In the case of Derren Brown's Ghost Train, the problem is not so much the engimatic presence of Derren, but the experience itself.

IPs are just part and parcel of the industry. Even Europa Park, which has spent money and ploughed resources into creating Snorri, as well as modernising Ed and Eddi into more developed characters than anonymous Disney rip-offs, recognise their value. Efteling have wisely and gradually expanded their own internal IPs, whereas Phantasialand just don't have any internally or otherwise, which is their loss.

I have been visiting Alton Towers for nearly thirty years, and as much as I loved Old McDonald's Farm and Storybook Land as a child, it is indisputable that the CBeebies land corner of the park is consistently busier now than they ever were.
 
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Plastic Person said:
It all depends on the IP and execution. CBeebies Land is refreshed fairly consistently and delivered with charm, whereas TWODW is half-arsed. A lot of the quality can be dependent on how rigorous and detail-oriented those licensing the IP are. Clearly, the BBC and/or whoever deal with the licensing of their various arms have higher standards than the Walliams estate. I wouldn't necessarily equate Sealife and Dungeons as 'brands' as equivalent to the aforementioned TV and literature properties, their presence is there to reinforce the Merlin portfolio and brand rather than an external device to lure in those who might not even otherwise consider a theme park as a day out or short break.

The expectations of an IP-holder can often drive a project in the right direction. Universal's work with the Harry Potter franchise changed the industry. But when they're working with properties they can easily access - Despicable Me, Jimmy Fallon and most notoriously, The Fast and The Furious - the results have been formulaic.

I think Alton's IPs are fairly classy and appropriate, and always have been since the days of Peter Rabbit, whereas Thorpe's are almost all already dated for a younger, more trend-oriented audience. In the case of Derren Brown's Ghost Train, the problem is not so much the engimatic presence of Derren, but the experience itself.

IPs are just part and parcel of the industry. Even Europa Park, which has spent money and ploughed resources into creating Snorri, as well as modernising Ed and Eddi into more developed characters than anonymous Disney rip-offs, recognise their value. Efteling have wisely and gradually expanded their own internal IPs, whereas Phantasialand just don't have any internally or otherwise, which is their loss.

I have been visiting Alton Towers for nearly thirty years, and as much as I loved Old McDonald's Farm and Storybook Land as a child, it is indisputable that the CBeebies land corner of the park is consistently busier now than they ever were.
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Yeah, those 2 areas definitely looked worn out in their last years, but the problem to is how overused the Intellectual property is. By no means I think Cbeebies Land is a bad idea in concept, what really bugs me is how much of the land they used. They've should've kept Old Mcdonalds Farm and refurbished it to reopen With Cbeebies Land just taking up Storybook Land.

As I've said earlier, HALF the Parks rides are located within these IP areas. 1/4, that's Understandable, but half? TBF I feel like the park ripped me off with £30 per adult when only half the rides are worth queuing and riding. Cbeebies Land and TWODW had so much more potential if they toned down the IP or didn't use it.

To me, TWODW is an appealing area to me, worse than Dark Forest, even though I like Dark Forest, TWODW just screams out minimum effort and greed. The rides are off the shelf, the paint job is terrible, and GG the ride isn't that great of a ride, not to mention as people have earlier how abysmal its Capacity is.

I'm all up for IPs when it comes to Parks such as Disney (excluding Epcot) and Universal, as they're literally Companies dedicated to filmmaking and Media. Alton Towers seems to be trying to be Something loke Dinset while at the same time being its own thing, and it won't do the Park any favours in the future.

I remember on an old forum, just as the Pakrs were brought by Merlin, Nick Varney, CEO of Merlin, and still is stated this in an interview.

'I was a big admirer of Disney and used to go a lot,' he says. 'Luckily, I think our theme parks are better.'

Well he clearly doesn't know a good park when he sees one.

Now tell me, would you still want a guy like that Running the UKs Top 3 theme Parks, slowly transforming them into IP monopolies?
 
Trooper Looper said:
I remember on an old forum, just as the Pakrs were brought by Merlin, Nick Varney, CEO of Merlin, and still is stated this in an interview.

'I was a big admirer of Disney and used to go a lot,' he says. 'Luckily, I think our theme parks are better.'

Well he clearly doesn't know a good park when he sees one.

Now tell me, would you still want a guy like that Running the UKs Top 3 theme Parks, slowly transforming them into IP monopolies?
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Me, personally? Not really, but that's been the case for the past fifteen years, and I can't see it changing anytime soon.

Aswith a lot of your posts, I think you are seduced by a nostalgia for a park that you never experienced, at a time that you weren't alive. Things change, and while Alton Towers can be frustrating, I would argue it's a better park and experience than in the desolate period under DIC, pre-Merlin.
 
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Plastic Person said:
Me, personally? Not really, but that's been the case for the past fifteen years, and I can't see it changing anytime soon.

As is the case with a lot of your posts, I think you are seduced by a nostalgia for a park that you never experienced, at a time that you weren't alive. Things change, and while Alton Towers can be frustrating, I would argue it's a better park and experience than in the desolate period under DIC, pre-Merlin.
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Yeah, you're probably right...

But I still think that Merlin should be taking more thought into their future projects and consider more Original themes.

Early 2000s to 2007 Alton Towers was never a great time for the park either. Even I agree that the Park wasn't that great back then and Merlin really did help it out greatly in their first few years of Running the Park.

I just fear on what Merlin is doing presently and how it'll effect the Park badly in the future and turn it into an unhealthy way of Buisness. To me, the park feels a bit bland and more commercial in some areas ever since their heavy Use of Intellectual property, and you're probably right that it's probably just Blind nostalgia, but I believe there still needs to be more consideration from us Enthusiasts as we practically the Parks critics.


Parks like Drayton Manor, probably the most Nostalgic of mine, to me currently is the best condition I've ever seen the park in. The new areas, refurbed Rides, the aggressive expansion soon of the park is something I'm fully on board with passion. I just wish The Merlin parks could have some like this in them, which feels lackluster.
 
Thing is as much as personally I prefer non-IP attractions generally, I can think of some very good IP areas (Peppa Pig World still looks new after 11 years) and some awful non IP areas (anyone else had the misfortune of experiencing the rainforest area at Chessington?). Therefore I am of the opinion that it is more important to make a good area than to use an original theme.
 
Trooper Looper said:
As I've said earlier, HALF the Parks rides are located within these IP areas. 1/4, that's Understandable, but half? TBF I feel like the park ripped me off with £30 per adult when only half the rides are worth queuing and riding. Cbeebies Land and TWODW had so much more potential if they toned down the IP or didn't use it.
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With all due respect I think that you are perhaps missing the point slightly by counting all the individual attractions in the park and feeling upset because half of them are branded IPs. A better way to look at it might be to see CBeebies Land as one whole attraction in itself and then count that against the number of major rides in the park. I think it stacks up pretty well, none of the SWs are branded IP, and its been a long time since Spinball Whizzer had the Sega tie-in for example. Once you leave Cbeebies Land and TWODW there isn’t that much that is an IP apart from The Dungeons and the Sealife centre which are both Merlin owned brands anyway. It’s definitely very different from Thorpe Park that seems to have somewhat hamstrung itself by having a situation where it is too tied-up with some outdated IPs. As an IP Cbeebies will stay relevant for a very long time, so long as they periodically refresh the rides and individual theming, because there will always be a new generation of young children watching it to replace the ones that have outgrown it.

Many guests will go to Towers and if they don’t have young children with them will never set foot in Cbeebies Land, just as some families with young children will go there primarily for that and not make use of the large coasters in the rest of the park. Personally I don’t really care about the branded IPs in Cbeebies Land because it’s not an area that I really visit though I do know that it massively brings in a certain family demographic to the park. Towers is a massive park, there’s room enough for all types of paying park goers, both the families that are drawn in by the IP themed areas and those that aren’t interested in them.


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I don’t mind (external) IPs as long as they are well themed. Unfortunately with the exception of a few examples, IP rides in this country are made on the cheap with scarce theming.

I wouldn’t say external IPs are taking over UK parks or Alton Towers. When you look at the likes of Wicker Man and The Smiler, it shows that an in-house IP can be just as strong.
 
Got to say I do not agree with the original post at all. Take away CBeebies Land and compared to many other theme parks Alton Towers not does have that many external IPs around.

Every major coaster has an orignal theme which is good and perhaps event somewhat surprising. And these coasters are not even sponsored by any external companies like major rides at say Disney or Europa-Park often can be.

A kids area like CBeebies Land is absolutely right to be an area themed to an IP. Alton Towers just had to look at the success that Paultons Park and Drayton Manor had with their respective areas. It is a no brainer. And with it being a kids area there are lots of smaller rides, which then makes it easy to say that half of the rides in the park are themed to an IP.

At one point a number of years ago I thought we were going to see an influx of external IPs to Alton Towers. Thankfully it is yet to happen.
 
Personally, I’ll admit that I don’t have a huge issue with external IPs as long as the attraction they produce is still fun. Which it often is in many cases, from my experience.

Yes, I like an originally themed ride as much as the next person, but surely if the attraction is still providing a fun experience, that’s all that matters?

For the most part, the IP attractions I’ve done, even in more regional parks like the Merlin parks, have been pretty good. Controversially, I actually rather liked Gangsta Granny for what it was; I thought it was very well done! And I think Saw at Thorpe, while I’m not the biggest fan of the coaster hardware itself, is very well themed; I dare say that I think it’s one of the most heavily themed coasters in the country alongside Thirteen, Swarm and Wicker Man.
 
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