Ride Availability/Operations 2022-24

[Danscott22]

It’s not that weird really. Things will only be on reduced capacity for one good reason or another, whether that’s a staffing problem or something is wrong with one of the trains. Most of my visits things have been on full capacity except Galactica, and I wouldn’t class my visits as during peak times either.

 

[Josh555]

As a slight deviation away from Alton Towers on this I’m personally not at all convinced that the will is there from Merlin to have everything open as much as possible. I’d agree that they want an improvement over the current situation but the reality is that rides being open costs money so they’ll get away with what they can in that regard.

To share an anecdote to illustrate my point, I was at Chessington recently , the app was showing Tiger Falls as being closed ‘all day’ and Vampire as just ‘closed’, it got to about 3pm and the Vampire changed on the app to ‘closed all day’, within minutes the Tiger Falls status had changed to ‘opening soon’ and within about an hour of that point it was open.

I just don’t think that in normal circumstances they’re opening a log flume at 4pm when the park shuts at 5, I’m convinced they thought ‘cold November day; we can get away without opening the log flume, they then realised that they weren’t going to be able to open Vampire that day so opened Tiger Falls when that became apparent to compensate for it.

Could be wrong of course but it’s hugely coincidental that those things happened within minutes of one another if that’s the case.

 

[Ethan]

I just don’t think that in normal circumstances they’re opening a log flume at 4pm when the park shuts at 5, I’m convinced they thought ‘cold November day

Tbf it is valid that opening water rides on a cold Novemeber day is a bit pointless. Very few people will go on water rides at this time of year

 

[Josh555]

Tbf it is valid that opening water rides on a cold Novemeber day is a bit pointless. Very few people will go on water rides at this time of year

In which case advertise that it’s closed from October onwards or whatever, which so far as I’m aware they don’t do.

 

[Bowser]

I look back fondly on the simpler times when queue lines had the signposting 'Wait time X minutes from this point'...

The fact that these are all now non-existent speaks volumes on how much Fastrack and RAP has made it near impossible to estimate queue times!

Ironically Vampire at Chessington still has these on the RAP queue.

 

[Ash]

The park cite they have a total of 2500 employees during the main season across the resort. I have no idea how many of those are in the park versus the resort side but I imagine it is considerably more than 300.

2023 Seasonal Recruitment Blog | Alton Towers Resort

The recruitment team have been working hard behind the scenes, finalising our plans for the 2023 season!

www.altontowers.com

The planning docs for Horizon stated the wage bill for 2021 to be somewhere in the region of £30million.

I have no idea of the revenue or profit for Alton Towers specifically, is your £100 million simply a guess?

The resort theme park division as a whole had £450million in revenue and £109million profit in 2022 according to Merlin’s accounts. This is across six attractions - of which Alton Towers is one of the largest. So somewhere between £75-£100 million in revenue (not profit) might be a reasonable educated guess.

If that’s true those returns are outrageous

 

[AstroDan]

I'd like to see entrance hosts back on all major coasters plus RMT and Spinball.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

If that’s true those returns are outrageous

Revenue isn't profit. Revenue is simply everything that you take through the till. It's your income.

Profit (net profit) is revenue minus expenses, debts, taxes and operating costs.

This is only a quick and simple accounting explanation.

 

[AT86]

To expand on my previous post - the operating profit margin for Resort Theme Parks in 2022 was 24% so using the educated guess of revenue for Towers of around £100 million you are looking at an operating profit of about £24million.

However this is massively oversimplifying the whole thing and is making an assumption based on the revenue and profit margins for 6 attractions in the group. Towers revenue and/or profit margin could be wildly different either up or down from the group average.

One passage from the accounts however does state ‘Alton Towers Resort reported record revenue, driven by strong revenues per guest’ so things are looking positive.

 

[Ethan]

One passage from the accounts however does state ‘Alton Towers Resort reported record revenue, driven by strong revenues per guest’ so things are looking positive.

If they can afford to build a coaster again and build a new coaster in the space of 3 years then I'll assume towers are doing quite well. Curse and sub terra this year too. This is the most investment I've seen for years. That's 4 attractions in 3 years and that doesn't include any new flats we might get in 2024/25

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

If they can afford to build a coaster again and build a new coaster in the space of 3 years then I'll assume towers are doing quite well. Curse and sub terra this year too. This is the most investment I've seen for years. That's 4 attractions in 3 years and that doesn't include any new flats we might get in 2024/25

It's called CapEx investment, and is standard across all large businesses, regardless of whether they're doing well or not.

Large CapEx projects, like building a hotel or park expansion, will not come from the park's own budget.

Each CapEx project is allocated its own budget, the financing for which is usually secured through loans by which ever division is financing the project.

You don't have to be doing well to secure financing on any project. To use a recent example from the news, this is what happened to WeWork. WeWork never made a profit, yet built significant investments all over the world. They didn't do that based on the revenue they had coming through the tills, they didn't it with financial backing from investors and banks.

Uber is another example of a company which has spent a significant amount of money over the years, without generating a profit until very recently. Again, backed by investors and loans.

You need to separate the way that you manage your finances at home, to how large organisations (and governments) account for their expenditure and investment. The two really are worlds apart, even if we use the same terminology.

The money being thrown into World Resorts right now is long overdue. They require significant amounts of CapEx investment to get back up to standard. Merlin will have reached out to its investors, possibly secured another round of private funding, and gone to the banks for loans to get this. All of which will be secured around projected future earnings and further investment.

Businesses, under capitalism, need to grow. If a business stops growing, even though it's turning over a healthy profit, it's considered a financial risk. Even if your business is haemorrhaging money, you still need to grow and invest. It's just the rule.

If you'd like to discuss the financials of capital expenditure and the economics of theme parks further, perhaps create a new thread?

 

[Steve74]

@GooseOnTheLoose You don't half know a lot about business accounting for a goose that's on the loose! Often wondered what the resident geese and ducks do over the closed season, now I know - learning all about Accounting!

 

[Hew878787]

I want that forecast report on my desk by Monday, Brian. Or your shins are getting it.

 

[Rob]

Ermmm, we seem to be drifting a hell of a long way from the topic of ride availability and operations at Alton Towers! I know it is the closed season, and availbility and operations are nil right now, but can we please try and stay on topic.

If there is a desire to continue discussion around finances at theme parks, feel free to create such a thread.

Thanks!

 

[RIPCorky]

To expand on my previous post - the operating profit margin for Resort Theme Parks in 2022 was 24% so using the educated guess of revenue for Towers of around £100 million you are looking at an operating profit of about £24million.

However this is massively oversimplifying the whole thing and is making an assumption based on the revenue and profit margins for 6 attractions in the group. Towers revenue and/or profit margin could be wildly different either up or down from the group average.

One passage from the accounts however does state ‘Alton Towers Resort reported record revenue, driven by strong revenues per guest’ so things are looking positive.

I'd be amazed if the hotels run at a profit or even a profit that's worthwhile. The running costs must be astronomical

 

[AT86]

I'd be amazed if the hotels run at a profit or even a profit that's worthwhile. The running costs must be astronomical

Hotels run at a far greater profit margin than theme parks. It’s why Merlin build about 600 of them a year.

Edit: soz @Rob just saw your post.

 

[Ash]

I'd be amazed if the hotels run at a profit or even a profit that's worthwhile. The running costs must be astronomical

As has been said, you just need to see what Alton has done with regards to rooms to see that is not the case in any way shape or form

Considering what they have done im intrigued to see what they do next in terms of adding rooms as space continues to become a premium.

It feels like the long term planning of the resort is now coming into question

 

[Matt N]

Sorry to bump this thread when we’re not in the main season anymore, but I just have a question about the operations of Rita that I thought might be relevant to this thread.

My question is; does anyone know why Rita doesn’t typically get throughputs nearly as high as those on Stealth? I’ve timed both rides a fair few times over the years, and Rita almost consistently gets notably lower throughputs than Stealth, from my experience. I’d say that anything much above 700pph, or an average dispatch interval of below 100s, is a pretty good day for Rita, whereas I’d say that anything below 800pph, or an average dispatch interval of above 90s, is a poorer day for Stealth. My highest ever reading for Rita is still lower than my lowest ever reading for Stealth.

On my most recent timing of each, the difference was particularly stark. Stealth was getting 867pph even with an instance of guest faff; before this guest faff instance occurred, the average was 900-950pph, and dispatch intervals of only 75-80s were being attained very consistently. Whereas Rita was attaining 650pph, with an average dispatch interval of nearly 2 minutes being attained.

Why do people think this might be? On paper, I can’t see an awful lot of difference between the two rides operationally. Both have separate offload stations, both have off-platform bag storage, and both have only two platform staff, if I’m remembering correctly. Interestingly, Stealth actually has a lower theoretical throughput according to Intamin (Stealth’s is 1,000pph, while Rita’s is 1,150pph). The only difference between the two is that Stealth is shorter, but given how long the trains spend waiting in the offload station on both, I can’t see that making any difference unless there’s some sort of minimum dwell time in the offload station that each ride needs to enforce.

Does anyone have any theories as to why Stealth’s throughput is typically higher than Rita’s, as I’ll admit that I’ve always been slightly stumped by this? It’s particularly confusing given that Stealth actually has a lower theoretical throughput than Rita…

 

[ScottishChris]

My question is; does anyone know why Rita doesn’t typically get throughputs nearly as high as those on Stealth? I’ve timed both rides a fair few times over the years, and Rita almost consistently gets notably lower throughputs than Stealth, from my experience. I’d say that much above 700pph, or an average dispatch interval of below 100s, is a pretty good day for Rita, whereas I’d say that anything below 800pph, or an average dispatch interval of above 90s, is a poorer day for Stealth. My highest ever reading for Rita is still lower than my lowest ever reading for Stealth.

I love this question. I don't have an answer, but two things to ponder:
1. Thorpe Park/ Stealth's audience is more likely to be teens/ thrill seekers - so they be more disciplined/ prepared for the loading process than Tower's Family audience?
2. There is no need to obtain high through-puts. I am a CI nut, I love data and live to have live stats to compare and improve... is this a thing at Towers (or even Thorpe)? Are there targets to achieve in terms of dispatches? If they are, are they enforced/ reported upon? I've mentioned previously, the park I worked at 20 years ago had strict targets... 16 dispatches per hour on one train 21 on two (not that I can still remember!)

 

[Matt N]

I love this question. I don't have an answer, but two things to ponder:
1. Thorpe Park/ Stealth's audience is more likely to be teens/ thrill seekers - so they be more disciplined/ prepared for the loading process than Tower's Family audience?
2. There is no need to obtain high through-puts. I am a CI nut, I love data and live to have live stats to compare and improve... is this a thing at Towers (or even Thorpe)? Are there targets to achieve in terms of dispatches? If they are, are they enforced/ reported upon? I've mentioned previously, the park I worked at 20 years ago had strict targets... 16 dispatches per hour on one train 21 on two (not that I can still remember!)

Interesting points.

This is interesting to consider, but both rides have the same height restriction, so in theory, a similar demographic would be riding both. And if this effect were the case, wouldn’t it also apply to other rides too? From my experience, there are other like-for-like comparisons where Alton Towers typically runs a bit more smoothly than Thorpe Park, such as Nemesis vs Nemesis Inferno. Nemesis almost consistently attains (attained?) a solid 1,200pph, whereas Inferno is a bit more hit and miss, not stacking at some times while attaining average dispatch intervals of over 2 minutes at other times.

I’m not sure on this one. I imagined that throughput targets within Merlin might have been abolished or at very least paired back following the Smiler incident, as throughput and uptime targets at the expense of safety were said by the HSE to have been a contributing factor in the incident, but I’m not sure whether throughput targets were necessarily abolished, as the HSE report criticised uptime targets more than throughput targets specifically. Folks in the know with Thorpe Park have implied that the park has had an increased onus on throughputs in 2023, but from my experience, Stealth attaining higher throughputs than Rita has been the case before 2023. On a possibly related note, one thing that could be incentivising higher throughputs on Stealth is that Stealth is arguably more of a star attraction for Thorpe Park than Rita is for Alton Towers; Stealth is among Thorpe’s most popular rides, whereas Rita blends into the background a bit more within Towers’ lineup.

On a complete aside; if you don’t mind me asking, what ride did you work on that had these throughput targets?