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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion
Plastic Person
TS Member
The industry is definitely going to face more challenges, and likely some bad press, as the paramaters for diagnosis continue to shift. Presuming the amount of people I can think of within my friends and family who are now applicable for RAP based on neurodiversity is reflected in the general public visiting theme parks, the system will surely soon be untenable, if it isn't already.
The blanket approach is a problem. My son is autistic (amongst other issues) and cannot queue a long time at all (if it’s under 20 we use the main queue as we’re trying to condition him to waiting)
Where as - he has a cousin who’s also Autistic and has no problems with queues at all - she’s happily waited 50+ mins with us on many occasions
Alexsniff7
TS Member
I have one for autism and have used main queues before but it was always a struggle, less because of the waiting but because of how towers design their queues: winding cattle pens
rap makes it much easier for me to leave if i get stressed or panicky and i have had to visit without one under the new system and it hasn't been easy for me (only date we could have done unless we wanted to wait for weeks) it didn't help there was nearly a fight in the nemesis line
rap makes it much easier for me to leave if i get stressed or panicky and i have had to visit without one under the new system and it hasn't been easy for me (only date we could have done unless we wanted to wait for weeks) it didn't help there was nearly a fight in the nemesis line
ScottishChris
TS Member
I could get a RAP because I was on anti-depressants. I don't need a RAP, but would get one. Apparently 8.2m people in the UK are on them. You then have the people on the autism spectrum, people on the ADHD spectrum, people with varying levels of mobility issues, people with various levels of digestive/ bowel disorders, people with various levels of bladder issues and so on.
The issue is that under the current system anyone with a 'disorder' gets a RAP - it doesn't matter the severity or requirements of the disorder... you get a RAP. They need do make it very clear and binary - you get a RAP if you can't wait in a queue. It needs to be that simple.
The administration behind that would be substantial.
Using Nimbus was supposed to do a lot of that for them but Nimbus don’t seem any more capable of truly differentiating between people who can and cannot queue because of all the lose definitions of the above .
There are also issues in the duration before you re apply being 3 years.
I would currently be eligible on the basis I’ve had knee surgery but it would be an 7-8 month thing, not 3 years.
Using Nimbus was supposed to do a lot of that for them but Nimbus don’t seem any more capable of truly differentiating between people who can and cannot queue because of all the lose definitions of the above .
There are also issues in the duration before you re apply being 3 years.
I would currently be eligible on the basis I’ve had knee surgery but it would be an 7-8 month thing, not 3 years.
I suppose the problem is would you class that as any length of queue, and how do you prove it. Our son can do short queues when in the right frame of mind, and we will do a short main queue to try and get him used to it. I'm just not sure how you would prove that some people can't queue.
Alexsniff7
TS Member
it's not that simple though
i know people who have one because they can have seizures and they need to be in a easier queue in case anything happens, should they have to be in the main queue?
i know other people who have issues that can be worse on certian days, it's not just for "can't queue"
pluk
TS Member
For me that's heading into nonsensical territory.
I think there is quite a strong argument that if you are THAT susceptible to seizures that require such immediate medical attention you probably shouldn't be strapping yourself into a seat and heading out into the woods on a contraption that requires you be be able to brace yourself and can easily get stuck for an extended period... or maybe the chances are so incredibly slim and consequences not the significant that there is no reason not to queue normally.
ScottishChris
TS Member
I can't find the information online for Towers, however, the Park I worked at back in the day specifically stated that people who suffered from seizures should not ride any rides. I would assume Towers would be the same.
BarryZola
TS Member
I think I said it a couple of months back, but the only way they'll get on top of the problem in the end (apart from small caps on how many can book a RAP on each day) will be to just limit RAP use to only the non-ambulant (the way I mostly remember it being used when I was young). With the increasing amount of people falling into the current RAP criteria and taking up the option to use one at Towers it looks to possibly be unsustainable in future years. I know how unpalatable that sounds, but what are the realistic alternatives?
Blackhole_Sun
TS Member
Only give it to people who can’t stand and walk up stairs/unlevel ground. That’s the alternative.
Eventually, the RAP queue will overtake the main queue line at this rate.
There’s certainly an element of personal responsibility, it can’t be completely on the theme park to make it risk free for the individuals. It does feel from the outside in that the more they do, the more that gets demanded.
BarryZola
TS Member
@Blackhole_Sun
Pretty much the same thing I was suggesting really. If I didn't explain it like that, then that's what I meant. Keeping it to clear physical disabilities. As soon as it's open to a myriad of mental afflictions the system becomes swamped. Hard to go to that system now though as people have become accustomed to it being open to mental and physical disabilities. Which is why they've probably just decided to go with a cap instead (can't really blame them).
Pretty much the same thing I was suggesting really. If I didn't explain it like that, then that's what I meant. Keeping it to clear physical disabilities. As soon as it's open to a myriad of mental afflictions the system becomes swamped. Hard to go to that system now though as people have become accustomed to it being open to mental and physical disabilities. Which is why they've probably just decided to go with a cap instead (can't really blame them).
DiogoJ42
TS Member
I don't know how much truth there is to this, but I've heard it said that a lot of younglings these days "self identify" as having various mental issues, such as multiple personalities, as the latest fad on tik tok. I could see plenty of people doing this for the day if they know they can "skip the queue" at theme parks.
Please don't think I'm saying RAP users are "faking", or anything like that, of course. But there is something to be said for limiting it to physical ailments only.
Please don't think I'm saying RAP users are "faking", or anything like that, of course. But there is something to be said for limiting it to physical ailments only.
Limiting it to physical disabilities is how it used to work in places like Alton Towers and there certainly wasn't the friction there is now and the main queues moved a lot quicker for everyone as a result. (Though granted there didn't used to be fastpass either). This also seems to be how it works in most European parks which don't suffer the same RAP problems and presumably they havan't all been sued over it assuming they are all subject to similar disability discrimination laws.
Interesting through I didn't notice the same mess at Merlin parks in Europe either like Heide park or Gardaland (certainly don't remember it anyway)
Interesting through I didn't notice the same mess at Merlin parks in Europe either like Heide park or Gardaland (certainly don't remember it anyway)
Many of those European parks suffer from fast-pass being a requirement though.
Benzin
TS Member
A number do this. Though I'd also reckon there's a fair number who are either stuck in the system awaiting an official diagnosis, not even in the system due to moronic parents or just blissfully unaware for years.
The number who feign it though deserve contempt, and do not help the issue whatsoever. Gotta get those Internet points though (and then when you get found out either go the whole hog or post an apology video).
Unless you're so autistic that it gets detected early on (like my mate's twins getting level 2/3 diagnosis at 4!), you're at the whim of an overstretched health service that unsurprisingly prioritises physical ailments first as those are easier to treat.
Unfortunately the world is very far behind the treatment of mental health as a whole.
ScottishChris
TS Member
It's not about limiting it to physical disabilities. It is about limiting it to people who can't queue.
In a nutshell, right now you give Nimbus a vague description of your circumstances, they then offer you a card with what they think you might need... you actually need to ask them to take it off the card if you don't want it. That is the nonsense part. The questions need to be:
"What support do you need?"
"Why do you need it?"
"What evidence can you provide to prove this?"
"If we don't give you a RAP, how will you access the attractions?"
The bottom line needs to be - if you can queue... you don't get a RAP because you don't need one. No if's, and's or but's. We keep going round in circles and clearly Merlin are nervous about being seen to discriminate.