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Universal GB - Archived Pre Announcement Discussion

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Adam H said:
I do think 35% of guests by car is optimistic, I think atleast 50%. But in regards to the midland mainline and west coast mainline links recently discussed, we also have the east coast mainline only about 20mins drive from the proposed resort. If there's an issue on Thamslink and I want to get home, I always opt for the east coast mainline next door at King's Cross and get off at Sandy. Coaches from Sandy or Biggleswade and MK to Universal would probably be a good shout.
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You are thinking about it all wrong. Universal's market will be much more similar to that of DLP than Thorpe or Towers. So if you are looking to benchmark how people get to a park - DLP is what you need to look at. It seems like it will be similarly sized and with similar transport links and similar distances from major cities. I can't find the info online, but I wouldn't be surprised if way more than 50% of DLP's visitors come by public transport.
 
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Mick said:
I watched a bit of TPW’s Q&A from last night and thought he made a good point when he suggested that whilst Universal coming obviously represents a threat to places like the Merlin parks, it also represents an opportunity as people will be travelling to the UK for Universal but could then choose to visit other attractions whilst they’re here that they wouldn’t ordinarily make a specific trip for.
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Although what he's said is quite a crude assessment, the conceptualisation is correct. Despite all this talk of "competition for Merlin" as if it's purley a binary choice, it's possible that Merlin could do nothing at all in response other than just cut costs to offset the competitive overlap, which itself could be partially offset itself by the benefits it would bring to them, and still be profitable.

From a sedentary position, it looks crazy to build a Universal here. But then there's clearly some well thought out overall market strategy behind this that leads them to the stage where they are now seriously investigating the feasibility of it.

Maybe they've concluded there is a large opportunity here because this kind of market is under represented in the UK? In which case there is a large hole to be filled. So by coming here, rather than just nicking a slice of the pie from each of the Merlin parks, the pie itself gets bigger. In 1994 Blackpool, Drayton and Towers didn't just spend all that money and sit still because the others had a new coaster as well, they grew the UK theme park market. In which case, although there will clearly still be some competitive overlap, both parks could benefit from people staying in the UK rather than seeking parks abroad, as well as benefiting from additional tourists visiting the UK, or visiting from London who currently don't venture as far as Towers. Disney World and DLP probably compliment Busch Gardens and Asterix Park respectively more than harm them.

Secondly, they won't be operating in identical sections of the market, so won't always be competing for the same custom. UK Merlin parks are mid market offerings at best, Universal is premium. People who can just about afford to visit Towers every year, won't be able to do the same with Universal. People like me live closer to Bedford than Alton as the crow flies, but despite zero rail links, Towers is still far quicker and easier for me. It's more central location will make it easier and cheaper to visit for huge swaths of the UK population. There's a very different market there for both parks.

Of course there will be a lot of competitive overlap, but Merlin will devise a strategy to offset some of this with the opportunities it also brings (which they'll only do by the way when they have confirmation. No large scale decision we'll see out of Merlin right now will be related to Universal at all untill there is certainty). Whatever strategy they decide on, it won't necessarily involve Towers "upping their game". It will likely be devised with far more nuance in mind, and certainly not on the current hypotheticals being banded around.
 
Well currently online 1 day prices for a family of 4 to just 1 Universal park is £523.50. Alton Towers which is the best uk theme park £136 with a 2-1 voucher then the price of the express passes.
With them prices unless it’s nearer the £200 mark families won’t go.
 
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Themeparksandy1981 said:
Well currently online 1 day prices for a family of 4 to just 1 Universal park is £523.50. Alton Towers which is the best uk theme park £136 with a 2-1 voucher then the price of the express passes.
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I assume you’re looking at the cost of the US Universals?

I went to the Singapore one last year and it was surprisingly cheap at around £36.

And Singapore isn’t exactly a cheap country.

I’d imagine Universal GB charging in the region of £60 per ticket.
 
havaska said:
I assume you’re looking at the cost of the US Universals?

I went to the Singapore one last year and it was surprisingly cheap at around £36.

And Singapore isn’t exactly a cheap country.

I’d imagine Universal GB charging in the region of £60 per ticket.
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Is Singapore park owned by Universal or like Disney in Tokyo by the Government?
 
Given that the park isn't opening in the next couple of years, inflation can't be ignored. It seems reasonable to assume that they'd open as the most expensive park in the UK by a large margin so I don't think a price of around £100 is out of the question, at least for the on the day rate.
 
The 1-day tickets to Universals in America are priced to incentivise longer trips; the tickets with more days on them, such as the 14-day 3 Park Explorer Ticket at Universal Orlando, are £339 per adult (10+) and £329 per child aged 3-9 in 2024: https://ukstore.universalorlando.com/park-tickets

This works out vastly, vastly cheaper per day. And that’s before you consider that those tickets are probably pricier due to them letting you into multiple parks; the 14-day tickets now give you unlimited entry into both theme parks and Volcano Bay for 14 days.

I’d imagine that any Universal offering in Britain would probably be similar, with multi-day tickets working out cheaper on a per-day basis.

Another thing to bear in mind in terms of Universal vs Merlin pricing is that the Merlin parks, particularly the parks in the South, are filled with a considerable army of frugal passholders, who buy MAPs for £100 or so each at the start of the season, take a packed lunch and go and get their money’s worth at the Merlin attractions every weekend. You can bet your bottom dollar that Universal’s annual passes will not be nearly as cheap as those sold by Merlin, which would likely price out many of the people who buy MAPs or similar.
 
One of the concerns in the document but it’s hard to work out, is the space allocated to the theme park seems quite small. Is anyone with computer skills on scaling able to make a comparison to other parks?
 
Dave said:
One of the concerns in the document but it’s hard to work out, is the space allocated to the theme park seems quite small. Is anyone with computer skills on scaling able to make a comparison to other parks?
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I saw that someone managed to elsewhere, and it’s actually bigger than Islands of Adventure, for some idea. I’ll find the link.
EDIT - Here’s the link to the measurements, done by Nicky Borrill on CoasterForce: https://coasterforce.com/forums/thr...me-park-in-bedford.46632/page-11#post-1170461
 
Dave said:
One of the concerns in the document but it’s hard to work out, is the space allocated to the theme park seems quite small. Is anyone with computer skills on scaling able to make a comparison to other parks?
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This is the size of Parc Disneyland in Paris overlayed onto the area where 'TP' is highlighted on the document. Using this website https://www.mapfrappe.com/legacy.html?show=131.
 
I'm also assuming that the 'Mixed Use' portion of the documents are areas for future theme park and hotel areas, just not yet carved into sections as the primary area for Phase 1 currently has been.
 
benpicko said:
I'm also assuming that the 'Mixed Use' portion of the documents are areas for future theme park and hotel areas, just not yet carved into sections as the primary area for Phase 1 currently has been.
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I would be mindful of anything in that document and assuming [if it happens] the final product will look anything like that. That said, 'Mixed Use' could be pretty much anything from an entertainments/ boardwalk area (Citywalk would be deemed 'mixed use') to a staging/ storage area.

The thing that stands out the most in all these maps for me is that lake... it is a tad too big, and not in the most optimum place. Anyone else think that the size and position of the lake might actually change?

Also, I have done some size comparisons. The space currently used at DLP for the park and infrastructure is 276 hectares. The identified are in the documents for the Universal park is 183 hectares... or 257 hectares if you include the lake. See the images below for what I measured.
1712425052545.png1712425111141.png
 
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Apologies if this is known information as I haven't had the time to fully look into all the details, but is it known if the plan is to open just 1 park, or multiple parks like in Orlando? I see there is likely space to have 2 separate parks. This along with hotels, a waterpark, entertainment area, this would back their estimations of public transport use if international visitors would be booking a multiple day stay. No need to hire a car if you plan to stay within the resort.

As mentioned, DLP is the best comparison there, I and no doubt many many other international visitors have travelled via public transport, and spent a full 3 / 4 days on resort. Therefore no need to use a car.
 
Dave said:
Alton Towers is joint third place for total number of rollercoasters in Europe, it can manage without another one for a little while, I actually think any delay in Horizon is strategic with an eye on universal (not convinced it’s actually delayed but that’s a different story).

The park needs more capacity and improved maintenance to compete with Universal if it comes to fruition. That said I don’t think Towers is the most at risk from this project, Chessington is probably the most vulnerable due to proximity and aligned target audience.
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I'm sure it can manage, but such a huge gap hardly states serious ambition for growth or significant portfolio enhancement. In the face of the Universal threat, a change will be needed - but that could be a simple repositioning as a budget park!
 
Tom said:
I'm sure it can manage, but such a huge gap hardly states serious ambition for growth or significant portfolio enhancement. In the face of the Universal threat, a change will be needed - but that could be a simple repositioning as a budget park!
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Putting in a new coaster every 5 years and neglecting the rest of the place has got us to where we are now. I would argue slowing down the new coasters in favour of investing in other areas of the park is more evidence of portfolio enhancement than we have seen for a long time.
 
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