2025: General Discussion

[siralgenon]

The hotel bars and restaurants are generally open to the public and not just hotel guests.

Funny story - yesterday we visited the Waterpark and wanted to go for a drink in MaGarrita's during the day. Long story short; the bar didn't open until 12:00 so you couldn't get a coffee in the morning. Then when we went back for a drink after opening they don't serve cocktails and cocktails until after 3:00 and then they pulled the shutters down and closed at 4:30

 

[djtruefitt]

Funny story - yesterday we visited the Waterpark and wanted to go for a drink in MaGarrita's during the day. Long story short; the bar didn't open until 12:00 so you couldn't get a coffee in the morning. Then when we went back for a drink after opening they don't serve cocktails and cocktails until after 3:00 and then they pulled the shutters down and closed at 4:30

I guess with no one staying in the hotel at this time of year I’m surprised the bar is open. I imagine everything would be open in ATH.

 

[siralgenon]

I guess with no one staying in the hotel at this time of year I’m surprised the bar is open. I imagine everything would be open in ATH.

No the Dragon Bar didn't open until the evening which is why we ended up going back over to Splash in the first place. The coffee shop was open upstairs but no bar.

 

[AltonLover123]

You know things are bad when Aramark talk is even slightly positive.

 

[MattL27]

Warwick castle are always outsourcing for their events, all the actors are pretty much outsourced. The light trail is and ice rink and I’d argue the events are better than any put on at the theme parks

 

[AT86]

The latest blog post on Feb half term seems to suggest the stage show in the courtyard could have been axed. There is certainly no mention of it under the entertainment section.

Set Sail for Adventure | Alton Towers Resort

Ahoy, mateys…Long time, no ‘sea’! Alton Towers Resort has transformed into a smuggler’s haven for the return of Pirate Takeover

www.altontowers.com

Apologies for quoting myself, like some kind of narcissist, but the FHT map has been released and the good news is the stage shows are returning afterall.


From: https://www.instagram.com/p/DF5nHJNt0O9/?igsh=ZmU5aHZrc3QwbjVw

 

[NuttySquirrel]

Unless the maps were printed before the show was axed?

Hope for the sake of people that have paid in good faith for this event that isn't the case

 

[Dave]

Unless the maps were printed before the show was axed?

Hope for the sake of people that have paid in good faith for this event that isn't the case

This is an online map, they wouldn’t release it with the shows this late on if they where not happening.

 

[AltonLover123]

This is an online map, they wouldn’t release it with the shows this late on if they where not happening.

Was about to say this. Since it’s an event they could have potentially updated the online one and not given out a paper version if it was too late/too expensive to reprint.

But I think we may be all good. Perhaps they’ve kept a core team of ents until they put into place the long term plan.

 

[Mick]

They always make these event maps look excellent, credit to the design team.

 

[WillPS]

Many people argue that the park's food and beverage offerings were at their best when provided by the fast food franchises of McDonalds, KFC and Pizza Hut. Outlets which weren't managed-in house and were outsourced.

Probably best not to imply too many similarities as the situation was nothing like now. McDonalds were run by one franchised operator, the KFC/Pizza Hut were run by another. Towards the end of that era there was also Eastern Express in Merrie England. And of course there was also strong in-house offerings in the hotel(s) and across the park filling in the gaps between the branded offers.

I make that 3/4 distinct operators, 3 global brands and a far stronger range of in-house catering.

Compare and contrast to now - one operator (+Eastern Express) for everything. There is no internal competition at all, nor any need for stuff consumers care about like a familiar product/quality proposition.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Probably best not to imply too many similarities as the situation was nothing like now. McDonalds were run by one franchised operator, the KFC/Pizza Hut were run by another. Towards the end of that era there was also Eastern Express in Merrie England. And of course there was also strong in-house offerings in the hotel(s) and across the park filling in the gaps between the branded offers.

I make that 3/4 distinct operators, 3 global brands and a far stronger range of in-house catering.

Compare and contrast to now - one operator (+Eastern Express) for everything. There is no internal competition at all, nor any need for stuff consumers care about like a familiar product/quality proposition.

I'm glad that we're now both agreed that outsourcing can work well, if implemented correctly.

 

[WillPS]

I'm glad that we're now both agreed that outsourcing can work well, if implemented correctly.

There's no agreement here

1. What happened in the 90s to mid 00s with catering was that concessions were invited to compete with one another and a continued in-house presence, which is very different to wholesale contracting out ala present tense Aramark.
2. What is happening here is, if anything, more like a move away from the concession model you cite as successful since the in house component is more-or-less eliminated and there's talk instead of a single company picking up those in-house responsibilities (not unlike Aramark).

 

[Dave]

Entertainments is slightly different as you gain nothing from having an internal market. You either pay one company to do everything and have KPI’s or you tender each event out.

I don’t think we will see much of a difference with event quality (might see a reduction in the number of events). And with a broader pool of acting and creative talent you might even see some minor improvement. Where I think we will see deteriorating quality is the general AV maintenance around the parks as that will almost certainly go to tech services who are skilled but it’s not their area of expertise.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

There's no agreement here

1. What happened in the 90s to mid 00s with catering was that concessions were invited to compete with one another and a continued in-house presence, which is very different to wholesale contracting out ala present tense Aramark.
2. What is happening here is, if anything, more like a move away from the concession model you cite as successful since the in house component is more-or-less eliminated and there's talk instead of a single company picking up those in-house responsibilities (not unlike Aramark).

So outsourcing can work well, if implemented correctly?

 

[Bowser]

The Water Park is still advertised as sold out the duration of half term.

Somebody mentioned they’re prioritising hotel packages but from what I can see admission is not included with a stay at any of the hotels.

Am I missing something such as there were specific packages that are now sold out or is the water park just unusually popular this year?

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

The Water Park is still advertised as sold out the duration of half term.

Somebody mentioned they’re prioritising hotel packages but from what I can see admission is not included with a stay at any of the hotels.

Am I missing something such as there were specific packages that are now sold out or is the water park just unusually popular this year?

Entry is included in hotel packages for the February half term event:

February Half Term | Alton Towers Resort

Discover buried treasure this February Half Term when you set sail to Pirate Takeover at Alton Towers Resort!

www.altontowers.com

It is likely, due to rumoured staffing levels, that the park is prioritising hotel guest access for this event.

 

[jon81uk]

There's no agreement here

1. What happened in the 90s to mid 00s with catering was that concessions were invited to compete with one another and a continued in-house presence, which is very different to wholesale contracting out ala present tense Aramark.
2. What is happening here is, if anything, more like a move away from the concession model you cite as successful since the in house component is more-or-less eliminated and there's talk instead of a single company picking up those in-house responsibilities (not unlike Aramark).

I think one thing that also happened in the 2000s was the park started to focus on what the branded outlets couldn't, they added Rita's chicken & Ribs building on the knowledge of the hotel teams to run waited service meals, and made improvements to Towers St and other outlets as well as new cafe locations with a "healthier" menu (Refresh@Ripsaw etc). Then I think they got confident they could run the fast food as well so didn't renew the contracts with the concessions and started Burger Kitchen and Fried Chicken Co.

But longer term they couldn't run all the fast food as well as the other outlets so just tried to make it someone else's problem and brought in a single company to pick up all the responsibility as you say.

 

[DistortAMG]

I think one thing that also happened in the 2000s was the park started to focus on what the branded outlets couldn't, they added Rita's chicken & Ribs building on the knowledge of the hotel teams to run waited service meals, and made improvements to Towers St and other outlets as well as new cafe locations with a "healthier" menu (Refresh@Ripsaw etc). Then I think they got confident they could run the fast food as well so didn't renew the contracts with the concessions and started Burger Kitchen and Fried Chicken Co.

But longer term they couldn't run all the fast food as well as the other outlets so just tried to make it someone else's problem and brought in a single company to pick up all the responsibility as you say.

I think the reason the contracts were not renewed is because the brands were demanding much more money when the franchise brands were up for renewal.

I understand both sides of the argument, but the fundamental fact is and what @GooseOnTheLoose was getting at; no matter how you sugar coat it or try to wrap it up, the fact of the matter is, the park did outsource part of their needs back in this period and it worked well, very well. If it happened then it could happen again, if managed correctly.

The fact the park also used in house catering at that time, causing competition between all parties involved, directly falls under the remit of managing the whole outsourcing situation correctly, to enable that exact thing to happen.

 

[rob666]

This comes down to the standard of outsourcing though, doesn't it?

Bringing in quality recognised brands is one thing... nameless, faceless multinationals who are likely to cut costs to increase margins in a fixed market is another thing entirely.

Hot dogs in a flask need a new season mention.