Universal GB - Archived Post Announcement Discussion

[Donkey]

TPWW will be absolutely buzzing with this, that's the next 6 years of updates sorted even if there's no more major rides in the UK in that time.

Yup, and all the other coaster YouTubers as well.

Sadly for them it seems like semi-reliable information about the lands has already been leaked so they won't be able to speculate for 3 years on whether Harry Potter will be included or not purely based on a blurry concept art.

Still, we will probably get a few years of 'there are some fields with some fences around them but nothing else has happened yet' videos.

 

[QTXAdsy]

I'm excited for Carry On Camping 4D. They'll probably upcharge for the front row seats though.

Does that mean we get to watch the whole bikini incident in 4D then too?

 

[Quantum]

Yup, and all the other coaster YouTubers as well.

Sadly for them it seems like semi-reliable information about the lands has already been leaked so they won't be able to speculate for 3 years on whether Harry Potter will be included or not purely based on a blurry concept art.

Still, we will probably get a few years of 'there are some fields with some fences around them but nothing else has happened yet' videos.

Construction will be starting next year so it won't be that long, I'd expect a full planning application soon, they have plenty of time to prepare one. They need to get cracking if they want it open by 2031

 

[Benjsh]

If they plan on using British Construction firms they probably should have started 4 years ago to meet this deadline.

Lets hope they do meet their 2031 target but it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if it gets pushed back to 2032 somewhere down the line.

 

[rob666]

Construction will be starting next year so it won't be that long, I'd expect a full planning application soon, they have plenty of time to prepare one. They need to get cracking if they want it open by 2031

That is an extremely optimistic view.
There are massive delays generally in pre construction planning, and this is a huge project.
Where are all these new construction staff coming from?
Ten years probably before opening.
Planning hasn't even started formally yet.

 

[DiogoJ42]

With the way we build things in this country, They'll be lucky to open before 2045.
(I still don't think this will ever happen, FYI)

 

[Blackrock]

That is an extremely optimistic view.
There are massive delays generally in pre construction planning, and this is a huge project.
Where are all these new construction staff coming from?
Ten years probably before opening.
Planning hasn't even started formally yet.

That the biggest question, we don’t have enough builders in this country and we already have a couple of huge national infrastructure projects either being built now or will be starting soon.

So where are these people coming from.

I’m expecting temporary visas to be offered for certain trades and professions tbh.

 

[Ash]

Not gonna lie, if there is a BTTF “Flux Capacicoaster”, with Huey Lewis and the News/80s jukebox soundtrack, set in a hill valley area,

They’ve got my money
My annual pass money
My event money
My merch money

Whatever they want, sign me up

Personally I’d much prefer dark universe over LOTR, and I think it would work far better here. But I understand as a unique IP for the UK, in place of potter it would make a good fit.

However we all know so much of Tolkien’s writing was inspired by Staffordshire and would have been far more at home in a theme park in that part of the world…

When they’re a diggers on site is when I’ll get truly excited and they’re spending money.

There’s an insane amount to do and as others have said, despite decent quality, uk construction doesn’t go quick.

Needless to say when the offers to tender start appearing I’ll be pushing them internally at work

 

[Josh555]

Where there is vast amounts of corporate cash there is usually a way.

If they're saying 2031 it will be around then unless there are any genuinely unforeseen delays, and by that I don't mean the predictable things like ground contamination (which as someone who works in new build property law can tell you comes up on about 70% of sites) and slow construction companies.

I can understand the hesitancy as to whether this will materialise from some given the way projects sometimes go in this country but this is an absolute behemoth of the trade here, not whoeever the cow boys were in charge of the failed London project.

Universal have spent almost 2 years deciding whether to go ahead with this, the notion that they'd have spent that long to reach this stage for it then to fail due to something which they could have spotted during that due dilligence process seems incredibly unlikely. T

Whilst it's true to point out that worst case scenario they could sell the land for something else, they will have already invested tens of millions of pounds which they can't retrieve in the planning for it to reach this point.

Unless something seriously mad happens it will go through, even a global pandemic with enforced lockdowns only caused a contextually brief delay to Epic Universe.

 

[dave___]

Not gonna lie, if there is a BTTF “Flux Capacicoaster”, with Huey Lewis and the News/80s jukebox soundtrack, set in a hill valley area,

They’ve got my money
My annual pass money
My event money
My merch money

Whatever they want, sign me up

Personally I’d much prefer dark universe over LOTR, and I think it would work far better here. But I understand as a unique IP for the UK, in place of potter it would make a good fit.

However we all know so much of Tolkien’s writing was inspired by Staffordshire and would have been far more at home in a theme park in that part of the world…

When they’re a diggers on site is when I’ll get truly excited and they’re spending money.

There’s an insane amount to do and as others have said, despite decent quality, uk construction doesn’t go quick.

Needless to say when the offers to tender start appearing I’ll be pushing them internally at work

If it comes out good then I’ll absolutely spring for an annual pass. Straight arrow down the M1 for 25 junctions for me rather than having to come off and drive through the worst country roads that Derbyshire and Staffordshire can throw at you. Easy peasy journey to Bedford vs AT by comparison, at least for me.

My kids will be into mid teens by then though so can only imagine what they think of how Boomery a DeLorean is.

 

[rob@rar]

However we all know so much of Tolkien’s writing was inspired by Staffordshire and would have been far more at home in a theme park in that part of the world…

Kittle known fact, Tolkien did his officer training for World War 1 in Bedford, probably based about 1.5 miles away from the location of the theme park.

 

[Benjsh]

Kittle known fact, Tolkien did his officer training for World War 1 in Bedford, probably based about 1.5 miles away from the location of the theme park.

It's little details like this that make me think the BBC might have some credible info.

I seem to recall reading a while ago that the Tolkien estate were very hesitant of allowing the IP to be used in American parks for example like the Potter IP was.

 

[rob@rar]

I seem to recall reading a while ago that the Tolkien estate were very hesitant of allowing the IP to be used in American parks for example like the Potter IP was.

That might well be true, but the Tolkien estate doesn't have any control over Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit in theme parks. Those rights are owned by Middle Earth Enterprises, which is a part of Swedish games company Embracer Group.

 

[Benjsh]

That might well be true, but the Tolkien estate doesn't have any control over Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit in theme parks. Those rights are owned by Middle Earth Enterprises, which is a part of Swedish games company Embracer Group.

When I say a while ago I mean quite a long time ago. Before they purchased the rights.

 

[Bowser]

It has it's hardcore fans, but it's not got mainstream appeal. The films are too long to allow a casual audience and the amazon series hasn't done much good

The films alone are some of the most successful of all time. You don’t have to like it but to think it’s not mainstream is simply inaccurate.

 

[rob@rar]

When I say a while ago I mean quite a long time ago. Before they purchased the rights.

The Tolkien family haven't had control over Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit in terms of movies or entertainment like theme parks, stage shows, etc since 1968, when Tolkien himself sold the rights to United Artists.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

That might well be true, but the Tolkien estate don't have any control over Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit in theme parks. Those rights are owned by Middle Earth Enterprises, which is a part of Swedish games company Embracer Group.

That hasn't strictly been tested.

Middle Earth Enterprises have the rights for film and stage adaptations, in addition to merchandising, but the original sale of the rights by Tolkien didn't specifically state amusement attractions.

Middle Earth Enterprises had to settle out of court, with Tolkien Enterprises, over video game rights because their rights didn't extend to "electronic or digital rights, rights in media yet to be devised or other intangibles such as rights in services".

Tolkien estate sues Hobbit producers over video and gambling games

Lawsuit alleges Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit merchandising infringes copyright and upsets fans

www.theguardian.com

The argument will be that theme parks are an extension of merchandising, or even a theatrical performance, but you can bet that The Tolkien Estate will want their pound of flesh too, and will quite happily bring another suit if Middle Earth Enterprises try and grant the rights on their own.

 

[rob@rar]

That hasn't strictly been tested.

Middle Earth Enterprises have the rights for film and stage adaptations, in addition to merchandising, but the original sale of the rights by Tolkien didn't specifically state amusement attractions.

Middle Earth Enterprises had to settle out of court, with Tolkien Enterprises, over video game rights because their rights didn't extend to "electronic or digital rights, rights in media yet to be devised or other intangibles such as rights in services".

Tolkien estate sues Hobbit producers over video and gambling games

Lawsuit alleges Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit merchandising infringes copyright and upsets fans

www.theguardian.com

The argument will be that theme parks are an extension of merchandising, or even a theatrical performance, but you can bet that The Tolkien Estate will want their pound of flesh too, and will quite happily bring another suit if Middle Earth Enterprises try and grant the rights on their own.

They might well initiate legal proceedings, but that will be for a slice of the rights money rather than to stop those rights being used. Middle Earth Enterprises claim they have rights for 'location based experiences' so I don't think the Tolkien estate will be able to stop LotR appearing in a theme park, and I suspect that since Christopher Tolkien died in 2020 the family are way more relaxed about JRR's genius appearing in media other than books.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Middle Earth Enterprises claim they have rights for 'location based experiences'

They will be stretching their rights for theatrical performances for that one, which I did suggest as a potential defence in my previous post, as it will encompass theatre promenade (or as it's known on Wikipedia, site specific theatre).

Site-specific theatre - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's not quite the same as amusement attractions, but we can leave that to the lawyers of interested parties to argue over.

 

[rob@rar]

They will be stretching their rights for theatrical performances for that one, which I did suggest as a potential defence in my previous post.

Perhaps it will be tested in court, but in recent years the Tolkien Estate and other family members have raised no objections to JRR's work appearing in various forms. After the out of court settlement over the original Peter Jackson trilogy there were no further objections to The Hobbit trilogy. The Rings of Power was an amicable agreement, and one of Tolkien's grandsons, Simon Tolkien, worked as a consultant on the series. The LotR musical is currently appearing in various countries (coming to Plymouth next year - go see it, it's excellent). The Bag End exterior location set in New Zealand is an authorised 'location based experience'. I think the Tolkien Estate are way more relaxed about JRR's work these days, and if they get a cut of the rights money from Universal I think that's morally correct (given that JRR Tolkien originally sold the rights for peanuts), even if not strictly necessary in law.

Having seen the artwork published yesterday and the endless commentary on it, the only thing that really excites me is the possibility of a LotR land. If they come up with something which resembles Majid Sarmast's concept art for Universal from a few year's back I'm going to be super happy.