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Should front row seats be a premium add on

It's a capitalist business at the end of the day. Management's job is to balance the delight of their customers with the delight of shareholders - albeit to maximise returns for shareholders. It's a symbiotic relationship šŸ˜

Disney/Universal not only make big bucks from various FP schemes, from £30 for 3+ rides to £200-£400 for a one-time for each ride - and then £500+ for VIP/front of line experiences. They also use the benefits to sell their really expensive hotels. If you get rid of these FP options, shareholders expect the money to come from somewhere else - and that's every other customer!
yes, our points was that they are really bad for other people and not fair.

disney were (not sure how it is now) a good example of this, at disney they used to opperate with up to 100:1 ratio of fast pass to non paying guests, essentially turning the rides into required paid attractions (to put that to context, a ratio of 10:1 (less, but I recall seeing 100:1 was the max) would make big thunder mountain (~3000pph) would be like 200pph, this is worse than rita at 1 train (I times about 3 min dispaches, with 20 rides, that gives about 400pph))
This was shown during covid when fastpass was closed, from start to ride snow whites queue (which during fastpass was about 2-3 hours) was 40 mins, the queue skipping features decimate the normal queue's throughput, and at disney it has destroyed the day for people who were too late to book, or didn't pay for it
 
yes, our points was that they are really bad for other people and not fair.

disney were (not sure how it is now) a good example of this, at disney they used to opperate with up to 100:1 ratio of fast pass to non paying guests, essentially turning the rides into required paid attractions (to put that to context, a ratio of 10:1 (less, but I recall seeing 100:1 was the max) would make big thunder mountain (~3000pph) would be like 200pph, this is worse than rita at 1 train (I times about 3 min dispaches, with 20 rides, that gives about 400pph))
This was shown during covid when fastpass was closed, from start to ride snow whites queue (which during fastpass was about 2-3 hours) was 40 mins, the queue skipping features decimate the normal queue's throughput, and at disney it has destroyed the day for people who were too late to book, or didn't pay for it

Sorry for the slight tangent but it sounds like the Disney parks differ massively by location? What you describe certainly isn't how Disneyland Paris operates so is this purely a US issue?
 
Sorry for the slight tangent but it sounds like the Disney parks differ massively by location? What you describe certainly isn't how Disneyland Paris operates so is this purely a US issue?

It'll be the way WDW operates. Where you seemingly have to book you entire holiday 6 months in advance else you won't get to do practically anything.

It's really off-putting.
 
Sorry for the slight tangent but it sounds like the Disney parks differ massively by location? What you describe certainly isn't how Disneyland Paris operates so is this purely a US issue?
yes, sorry each park has (or had, not sure if disneyland has matched WDW's latest ones) a completely different fast pass system, DLP was quite good, with very few people using. I was refering to WDW one, I think disneyland also has (or had) a differnt system called the maxi pass?? it was like $30 or so and worked similar to how the system worked before fastpass + similar to old AT (where you go to ticket places in the park, then do it there)

It's really off-putting.
yeah, it has changed I believe but they have changed the fast pass system so many times, I have lost track of how their charging, or how it is working
the last time I properly knew how it worked was gene+, where you payed something like $30 per day to get access to the same fastpass + system, which would be fully booked so people ended up booking it on stuff like winnie the poo
 
Sorry for the slight tangent but it sounds like the Disney parks differ massively by location? What you describe certainly isn't how Disneyland Paris operates so is this purely a US issue?
Yes DLP is a bit different. Bear in mind a single day ticket to Disney USA is nearly £200 (we get a really good 7/14 day deal in the UK)

It doesn't change the facts. Some people are cash rich and time poor, and will pay to save "time". Businesses will exploit this. It's not a new thing. Adding £5 to the ticket price won't change the FP queue, but it will reduce the normal queue as some people will be priced out. So the rest get shorter queues - which is exactly the same, albeit on a smaller scale.

Not saying it is fair, not equitable, but the system is what it is and we all exploit it to the best of our ability/advantage.
 
It doesn't change the facts. Some people are cash rich and time poor, and will pay to save "time". Businesses will exploit this. It's not a new thing. Adding £5 to the ticket price won't change the FP queue, but it will reduce the normal queue as some people will be priced out. So the rest get shorter queues - which is exactly the same, albeit on a smaller scale.
No, but it shows how damaging the fast track can be to other people it is all good saying I can pay to save time, but you are making so many more people wait so much longer and forcing them to pay for fast track because they physically can't get on all of the rides because you couldn't be asked to wait with them, to me it is quite immoral to pay for fast tracks which are run like how Disney runs theirs because of how predatory they are.

I'll put it this way, the space mountain queue (WDW) was about 20 people, the fast track queeu was litterally 5 times the length, and it too k about AN HOUR for me to get past the merge point on a ride with a capacity of 3,200 people per hour
 
I'll put it this way, the space mountain queue (WDW) was about 20 people, the fast track queeu was litterally 5 times the length, and it too k about AN HOUR for me to get past the merge point on a ride with a capacity of 3,200 people per hour
This is an error of management of the FP system, not the FP system. Same can be said of the RAP system. There's a difference between a FP system that allows you to avoid the queues, and a FP system that guarantees the same. Anyone who has been at the FP Rise of the Resistance will know a FP still involves an hour queue......

A FP should give priority, not exclusivity. And parks should manage it (and the $$$) so it has limited impact on everyone else.
 
This is an error of management of the FP system, not the FP system. Same can be said of the RAP system. There's a difference between a FP system that allows you to avoid the queues, and a FP system that guarantees the same. Anyone who has been at the FP Rise of the Resistance will know a FP still involves an hour queue......

A FP should give priority, not exclusivity. And parks should manage it (and the $$$) so it has limited impact on everyone else.
no matter what, the limited opening times means with the fact that adding fast track will increase queue times will reduce the amount of rides non paying people can ride, it may increase the queue times by only 10 mins, but over a day those 10 mins will add up resulting in you not being able to ride multiple rides, disney shows this particularly well, but it is an effect that all skip the line systems make.

it also makes the queue move slower, making it a more miserable experience.

also this is about how fair it is. it really isn't that fair that people who pay extra can just cut in front of the whole queue, no matter how much they value their time
 
also this is about how fair it is. it really isn't that fair that people who pay extra can just cut in front of the whole queue, no matter how much they value their time

Your mistake is thinking theme parks exist to promote fairness when they exist to make money*. The only variable is how much each park values customer experience.

*Notable exemption for Efteling.

** Probable exemption for the Middle Eastern parks.
 
When Disney & later Merlin both introduced Fastpass it was free.

Thus, a more balanced playing field.

Then they realised they could make money from it.

Until people vote with their wallets it will continue.

It's a shame that rather than try and promote good customer experiences to produce higher incomes it essentially comes down to fleecing as much as possible out of customers. But that's capitalism.
 
Your mistake is thinking theme parks exist to promote fairness when they exist to make money*. The only variable is how much each park values customer experience.

*Notable exemption for Efteling.

** Probable exemption for the Middle Eastern parks.
I didn't really mean it that way, I meant more that buying a fast pass is unfair, and something you shouldn't really feel that proud of essentially screwing over the rest of the queue as smile thinks:

It is buying privilege - there's no arguing. But walk tall and proud - any self-employed person will tell you the value of time!
 
I never found the fast tracks to be an issue until

a) opening hours were reduced
b) RAP queues were introduced
c) flats were removed without replacements

I don’t think fast track is a problem provided the park is able to implement them in a way that doesn’t affect the experience of those not buying them. To me it’s no different to buying speedy boarding on easyJet!
 
I don’t recall specific RAP queues in Alton back in 2007 (I may be wrong). I always recall seeing those with mobility issues using the exit queues to gain access to a ride.

I also don’t recall back in 2007 seeing an hour long normal queue, along with an hour long RAP queue and hour long fast track - and the poor ride host trying to merge all three!

Like I said I may be wrong, but to me this seems to have become an issue at Alton in the past few years.

Should we just scrap the RAP queues and give people a fast track instead so there are just two queues?
 
Then it would be known as free fasttrack.
Increase the price of fasttrack and season passes drastically, at least double what they currently are.
That would reduce queues over a season to acceptable levels.
 
Back in 2022 me,my wife and my son rode the Storm Coaster in the Dubai Hills Mall. It had only been open for about a month when we rode it so naturally we expected it to be fairly popular. It wasn't. We were literally the only people there to ride it.

When I went to buy the tickets he said it was an extra £3 per person to ride the front row. As it looked quiet we didn't bother and paid the standard price. Walked up to the train and low and behold we had the entire train to ourselves. I asked if we could sit on front row whilst it was empty and they politely said it's not possible. I didn't argue back because clearly it's been priced that way but I did think it was a bit ridiculous given there was absolutely nobody else there.

The ride wasn't all that amazing either btw. Looks far more impressive on videos and photos than it actually is.
 
Given that RAP was a thing back in 2007 at Chessie (presumably similar to Towers/Thorpe at the time?), and certainly wasn't the mess it is today, that's a bit of a reach.

I believe in the past RAP was predominantly (perhaps exclusively) for wheelchair users. Not sure when it changed but would guess it was only after the 2010 Equality Act.
 
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