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Paultons Park: General Discussion

Benzin said:
Out of curiosity this morning I checked how much Fønix and other new-gen Vekomas cost.

North of €10m.

No wonder they've gone elsewhere.
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If I was in charge I'd have probably combined the budgets for the Euro Fighter and the Water coaster (what the best guess currently is) and made one fantastic coaster to put the park on the map. That along with the new flat ride and Cobra retheme would have been sufficient I think for Paultons.

By adding a Euro Fighter + a Water coaster that obviously gives them more capacity and major attractions to do however, Paulton's doesn't really suffer from lack of capacity as it is like Chessington does for example. Their bigger rides are often walk on or under 25 min waits.

It's a bit disappointing from an enthusiast's point of view how from a capacity and operations point of view it's going to help them keep their queue times down and avoid Fast Pass so I can see why they are doing it.
 
I think Paultons know exactly what they are doing. This was never about them "putting themselves on the map" for coaster enthusiasts. They are already on the map for a very different reason. They have gone with a safe bet coaster that will extend the age range of the park. They know there will be those who grew up with Pepper Pig world who would now consider the park more on the baby side. This coaster and area will extend the age range for a family that might have younger children and older children who would have struggled to give reason to go to Paultons over chessington. Remember pepper pig world opened in 2011 so there will be a whole load of teenagers out there now who probably no longer visit the park.

The 2027 investment might also be slightly underwhelming, but whether it is a water coaster, a log flume or even an indoor water ride it will suit the needs of the park and fill a void presumably left by the previous log flume ride. The general public will see this as a continued investment and a reason to visit the park again. Remember enthusiasts are great but it will be the general public who will be the bulk of visitors.

Also unfortunately the money just isn't there in the UK market for £15m + investments outside of merlin who can spend the park budget of 4 on 1 for a single season while leaving the others to rot. Most of these theme parks only make a couple of million profit each season if they are lucky and Paultons will be aware of the risk of bankruptcy if they go too big. Take BPB that took a risk with Icon, the general public didn't really react to it and it's took them a while to recover. Even Thorpe Park with the Swarm wasn't as successful as they thought it would be leading to a drop off in investments.

Bottom line is Paultons are playing it safe, and most of the general public will just see it as a new attraction and a reason to visit the park. Added to that Paultons would have fixed the last major un-themed area of the park that looked out of place even ro the general public.
 
MrTowers said:
I think Paultons know exactly what they are doing. This was never about them "putting themselves on the map" for coaster enthusiasts. They are already on the map for a very different reason. They have gone with a safe bet coaster that will extend the age range of the park. They know there will be those who grew up with Pepper Pig world who would now consider the park more on the baby side. This coaster and area will extend the age range for a family that might have younger children and older children who would have struggled to give reason to go to Paultons over chessington. Remember pepper pig world opened in 2011 so there will be a whole load of teenagers out there now who probably no longer visit the park.

The 2027 investment might also be slightly underwhelming, but whether it is a water coaster, a log flume or even an indoor water ride it will suit the needs of the park and fill a void presumably left by the previous log flume ride. The general public will see this as a continued investment and a reason to visit the park again. Remember enthusiasts are great but it will be the general public who will be the bulk of visitors.

Also unfortunately the money just isn't there in the UK market for £15m + investments outside of merlin who can spend the park budget of 4 on 1 for a single season while leaving the others to rot. Most of these theme parks only make a couple of million profit each season if they are lucky and Paultons will be aware of the risk of bankruptcy if they go too big. Take BPB that took a risk with Icon, the general public didn't really react to it and it's took them a while to recover. Even Thorpe Park with the Swarm wasn't as successful as they thought it would be leading to a drop off in investments.

Bottom line is Paultons are playing it safe, and most of the general public will just see it as a new attraction and a reason to visit the park. Added to that Paultons would have fixed the last major un-themed area of the park that looked out of place even ro the general public.
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I somewhat agree with this and in other ways I don't.

The GP don't see it as a 'Euro Fighter' of course. They have no idea what one is. They just see it as a a new steel coaster which is fair enough.

However one thing they will experience is the head bashing. This is just an unavoidable bi-product of building one of these rides. They don't ride well or age well at all. That's not something that just enthusiasts pick up on either. That's a universal issue we all experience.

And it's in that regard where I think they have gone wrong here. There are cheaper small scale Gerst's out there with lapbars only that get rave reviews and are apparently really re-rideable which paultons could have easily managed to fund. I believe they might come to regret this decision over time.

Only 2 Euro Fighters have opened worldwide since the Year 2020. I think this is a sign that the industry has started to move on from them. There are better products now on the market at a similar price bracket.
 
Leigh said:
Fonix is also massive. Not sure it’s the right coaster to compare it to.

Something like Formula at Energylandia would be more appropriate I think.
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I did check but unfortunately the cost of that wasn't on RCDB.

Benjsh said:
If I was in charge I'd have probably combined the budgets for the Euro Fighter and the Water coaster (what the best guess currently is) and made one fantastic coaster to put the park on the map. That along with the new flat ride and Cobra retheme would have been sufficient I think for Paultons.

By adding a Euro Fighter + a Water coaster that obviously gives them more capacity and major attractions to do however, Paulton's doesn't really suffer from lack of capacity as it is like Chessington does for example. Their bigger rides are often walk on or under 25 min waits.

It's a bit disappointing from an enthusiast's point of view how from a capacity and operations point of view it's going to help them keep their queue times down and avoid Fast Pass so I can see why they are doing it.
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Any water based ride is a replacement for the removed Log Flume. Which is seemingly a novel concept in the UK ;)


Just think that enthusiasts set their expectations far too high in comparison to the "walk before running" method Paultons are seemingly taking. Even say a Mack Big Dipper like Dynamite at Plohn allegedly cost north of €5m and the other Gerst Infinity Coasters are all at parks that are owned by groups rather than individuals.

Fine to be disappointed with the choice, but whether or not the park "regret" it isn’t going to be seen for a few years.
 
Did they actually state that the £12m budget is for the 2026 and 2027 investments combined? They might have a separate budget for the expansion, or may have the ability to increase it once the financial results are in from the Valgard area opening.
 
Ciaran said:
Did they actually state that the £12m budget is for the 2026 and 2027 investments combined? They might have a separate budget for the expansion, or may have the ability to increase it once the financial results are in from the Valgard area opening.
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They have seemingly already begun construction of the 2027 attraction and it would be presumably almost finished by the time they had any meaningful financial results so I don’t think amending the project would be possible.
 
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Leigh said:
Fonix is also massive. Not sure it’s the right coaster to compare it to.

Something like Formula at Energylandia would be more appropriate I think.
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Perhaps for a more similar comparison, we could compare Emerald Park's construction cost for Tír na nÓg of €22 / £18.8 million. The area features two custom Vekoma coasters, plenty of theming and a new flat.
Ciaran said:
Did they actually state that the £12m budget is for the 2026 and 2027 investments combined? They might have a separate budget for the expansion, or may have the ability to increase it once the financial results are in from the Valgard area opening.
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Paulton's Park's accounting year finishes at the end of November, with the results compiled, analysed and submitted in August the following year.

The Financial results for Paulton's Park's 2026 season will not be available until August 2027, after the land is supposed to open.
 
Benzin said:
I did check but unfortunately the cost of that wasn't on RCDB.



Any water based ride is a replacement for the removed Log Flume. Which is seemingly a novel concept in the UK ;)


Just think that enthusiasts set their expectations far too high in comparison to the "walk before running" method Paultons are seemingly taking. Even say a Mack Big Dipper like Dynamite at Plohn allegedly cost north of €5m and the other Gerst Infinity Coasters are all at parks that are owned by groups rather than individuals.

Fine to be disappointed with the choice, but whether or not the park "regret" it isn’t going to be seen for a few years.
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They don't age well. They don't ride particularly well. They are definitely going to regret it in my humble opinion.

I actually have no issue with them going with Gerst either. Just think they have chosen probably their worst coaster product they offer. A swing launch Infinity coaster like Gold Rush wouldn't have broke the bank. Far more re-rideable and comfortable.

The industry as a whole is moving away from Euro Fighters and OTSR's too mostly. Manufacturers now have started to perfect the lap bar restraint so much that they are no longer required on most coasters.

I am disappointed, yes, but I'm also a bit shocked too. Feels like they are 10-15 years behind with this but we shall see I suppose.
 
Benjsh said:
They don't age well. They don't ride particularly well. They are definitely going to regret it in my humble opinion.
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Depends on the parameters for regret.

If it boosts attendance and give Paultons a better idea of how attractive a higher thrill coaster would suit their target audience then don't think they'll have many regrets.

Better options? Sure, though Saw's popularity is still fairly high 16 years on and that jolt of death. But just because it's a certain ride type doesn't guarantee success. Icon being a fantastic example of this.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
I'm not letting you twist this, sorry. You wrote:

You stated it as fact, not "mainly an assumption".

We do not know for certain why Paulton's chose a Eurofighter model for this ride, we do not know if it's a compromise, we do not know if it's for affordability reasons. We can only theorise. It is important, when theorising, to state so. Especially as some people here may actually take it as fact and run with it.
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I'll stop getting ahead of myself, but I still got a gut feeling that they settled on the Eurofighter (seen as affordable or even sub optimal by many here) since Paultons are aiming at a proper thrill ride (more aimed at teenagers and twenty somethings) but keeping it under budget and with a compact footprint (if they're keeping the very popular Cobra family coaster, with one all new flatride, and another elaborate shopping/resteraunt area).

The only real faux pass I see here is Paultons deciding on OTS restraints for the Eurofighter cars (so 1994), however if they get enough complaints or feedback they've got enough wiggle room to refit the Eurofighters with more current lap restraints.

Remember the Drakon is going to be one ride out of many, Paultons is not putting too many eggs in one basket (like Oakwood looked like they did, with two awesome for their day roller coasters, but seemingly not much else in their last few years).
 
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Benzin said:
Depends on the parameters for regret.

If it boosts attendance and give Paultons a better idea of how attractive a higher thrill coaster would suit their target audience then don't think they'll have many regrets.

Better options? Sure, though Saw's popularity is still fairly high 16 years on and that jolt of death. But just because it's a certain ride type doesn't guarantee success. Icon being a fantastic example of this.
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I think that's pretty much it though.... Marketing and gimmicks go a long long way with the GP and Merlin do that far better than PB.

I can only think it's the Saw brand / IP that keep it's popularity up. It's definitely not the ride experience. Whatever we all think about ICON, I'd rather ride that all day than SAW and I don't even have to think about that.

The example here is Paultons though which is neither Merlin owned nor a park that gets massive queues for its coasters. Storm Chaser was a walk on practically all day when we visited in half term opening year. Longest we waited was about 10 mins and we rode it 5 times.
 
I do think for Paultons a eurofighter is an odd choice model wise. I think the thrill level is the right step up, but they surely could've gone with a vekoma as @Leigh has said. If Gerst did water coasters then I would say they could a cheap package deal, but they don't, and even then other manufactures would've done them a similar deal.
To be honest though, even though I've said this is the right thrill level I do have doubts about giving it a vertical lift, something which looks intimidating, a new gen vekoma, with one or two inversions a more steady incline and possibly even less intense would've made more sense.
This will be a decent addition to the park, and had this been most other regional parks in the UK I think we would be beyond happy, but people have come to expect Paultons to do things the high quality, sensible, and steady way. Here they've ticked two of those boxes but they've not gone with high quality. They may come to regret this in a few years, we will have to see.
 
JAperson said:
If Gerst did water coasters then I would say they could a cheap package deal, but they don't, and even then other manufactures would've done them a similar deal.
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I think the "package deal" is Gerst getting dragged in not only for the Drakon itself, but how it elaborately loops through and around the pre-existing Cobra (which will go through a Nemesis Reborn style revamp and renamed the Raven, with a new station, new paint scheme, massive theming, and may even be retracked in places.

SAW the Ride is now a B-list thrill coaster for Thorpe Park and that'll likely eventually will be the case for Drakon by 2030+, a thrill ride test bed for Paultons, and adds to the dramatic Valgard mini-world (not an awkward bone shaking white elephant like G-Force supposedly was for Drayton Manor).
 
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