But, what is a rollercoaster?

[Squiggs]

Quick question, what makes a rollercoaster a rollercoaster?

Asking for a friend. But, why, oh why do sites like RCDB included powered coasters, but not tracked Water Chutes (like Vikingnar at BPB). Why is Altantica Supersplash considered a coaster, but not Supersplash at Plopsaland de Panne? Why aren't Disk'O Coasters coasters?

I'm sure someone around here will have a pithy answer we can all agree on.

 

[rob666]

Sunday morning haiku...


Ghost Train, Blackpool is
Runaway Mine Train isn't
All you need to know


I'm a gardener, I like taking the pith.

 

[Skyscraper]

Quick question, what makes a rollercoaster a rollercoaster?

Asking for a friend. But, why, oh why do sites like RCDB included powered coasters, but not tracked Water Chutes (like Vikingnar at BPB). Why is Altantica Supersplash considered a coaster, but not Supersplash at Plopsaland de Panne? Why aren't Disk'O Coasters coasters?

I'm sure someone around here will have a pithy answer we can all agree on.

Disko Coasters are coasters, according to Coaster-Count (it lists them)

 

[Benzin]

Does RCDB still consider Fuga d'Atlantide at Gardaland a coaster?

Cos that's definitely not if the Supersplashes aren't.

Disko Coasters aren't. Butterflies aren't. Alpines are personal preference.

 

[rob666]

Disko Coasters are coasters, according to Coaster-Count (it lists them)

Sorry, you cant simply say "x" is because "y" says.
I say the Ghost Train is a coaster...doesn't mean it is.
Probably.

 

[Skyscraper]

Sorry, you cant simply say "x" is because "y" says.
I say the Ghost Train is a coaster...doesn't mean it is.
Probably.

I wasn't being serious, Rob, hence the

Personally I count Disk O coasters, but it's personal choice.

 

[Matt N]

Does RCDB still consider Fuga d'Atlantide at Gardaland a coaster?

Cos that's definitely not if the Supersplashes aren't.

Disko Coasters aren't. Butterflies aren't. Alpines are personal preference.

No, it doesn’t. Fuga de Atlantide is not on the database.

Duane’s mentality with the SuperSplashes is apparently that they have to coast in an area that isn’t a drop sequence, which is why Atlantica counts and SuperSplash at Plopsaland doesn’t.

All of this is personal preference, really. For me, some of my opinions on key yes/no dilemmas in coaster counting are:

• Disk’O Coasters: No
• Powered Coasters: Yes
• SuperSplashes (well, Atlantica in my case): Yes
• Ghost Trains with Drops: No
• Retracks as Separate Credits (e.g. Nemesis vs Nemesis Reborn): No
• Relocations as Separate Credits: No
• Separate Sides of a Duelling Coaster as Separate Credits (e.g. Steeplechase’s sides): Yes
• Separate Sides of a Mobius Loop as Separate Credits (e.g. Grand National): No
• Significant Train Changes as Separate Credits (e.g. Shockwave vs The Wave): No

I haven’t done an Alpine Coaster or a Butterfly to decide on those yet… but generally, I tend to follow RCDB in terms of what I do and don’t count. If RCDB counts it, I probably will, and if they don’t, I probably won’t.

The only two non-real categories I have enabled for counting on CoasterCount are powered coasters and water coasters. I don’t have any of the “undefined” categories enabled (although to be honest, I also haven’t ticked off any of the “undefined” rides I’ve ridden).

 

[Skyscraper]

Cos that's definitely not if the Supersplashes aren't.

Atlantica Superplash at Europa is counted. I originally assumed it wasn't, then discovered otherwise.

 

[John]

RCDB is not entirely consistent and their definition of what should be counted has changed over time. There was a time when they counted Plopsaland's super splash, but at some stage it was taken off. It's "explained" on this page. Similarly at various times RCDB has had entries for BPB's Vikingar and Ghost Train, which is why there are a bunch of photos of both rides on the main BPB page of RCDB. Ghost Train wasn't on there for long, presumably multiple people called them out on that nonsense.

I've never been particularly comfortable counting alpine coasters (and have never counted the likes of Bobsleigh from Oakwood) but then you have Speed Bob in Germany which is is pretty much functionally identical to more conventional coasters. For now I still have alpine coasters on my list, I may change my mind at some point.

Whatever definition you go by, there are always going to be grey areas. There are a whole bunch of both dark rides and water rides that blur the definition of coaster. Fuga da Atlantide isn't all that dissimilar to Poseidon but RCDB thinks the former isn't a coaster whilst the latter is. On the whole I've never really given it too much thought. If I'm unsure about a particular ride I generally try to determine the primary "type" of ride - is coaster the best one-word description of the ride or would it be better described as a log flume/dark ride? Dreamflight and Ghost Train have coaster-like moments but are fundamentally dark rides - a coaster should be a thrill ride primarily, even if it's aimed at kids. Fuga da Atlantide has coaster-like track but is fundamentally a log flume. Even then there are exceptions, generally if RCDB lists it then I'll count it (but I've not removed Vikingar from my list just because RCDB removed it). Conversely, when I rode Devil's Den at Conneaut Lake Park it had an RCDB entry but I never counted it as a coaster. RCDB has since declassified it.

I'm broadly in agreement with Matt's list. The one thing I would expand on is where a retrack becomes a new ride. At opposite ends of the scale you have Nemesis Reborn (like for like, partial replacement) & something like Mean Streak -> Steel Vengeance (some structure retained, new track layout, different track type, new trains). Between the two extremes you have the likes of Tonnerre 2 Zeus @ Asterix and Eurosat @ EP, both of which had new trains and notable changes to the layout but retained at least some original track. RCDB does not count either as new rides but DOES count Alpenexpress as a new ride. I'm not entirely sure where I draw the line here.

 

[Tim]

No, it doesn’t. Fuga de Atlantide is not on the database.

Duane’s mentality with the SuperSplashes is apparently that they have to coast in an area that isn’t a drop sequence, which is why Atlantica counts and SuperSplash at Plopsaland doesn’t.

All of this is personal preference, really. For me, some of my opinions on key yes/no dilemmas in coaster counting are:

• Disk’O Coasters: No
• Powered Coasters: Yes
• SuperSplashes (well, Atlantica in my case): Yes
• Ghost Trains with Drops: No
• Retracks as Separate Credits (e.g. Nemesis vs Nemesis Reborn): No
• Relocations as Separate Credits: No
• Separate Sides of a Duelling Coaster as Separate Credits (e.g. Steeplechase’s sides): Yes
• Separate Sides of a Mobius Loop as Separate Credits (e.g. Grand National): No
• Significant Train Changes as Separate Credits (e.g. Shockwave vs The Wave): No

I haven’t done an Alpine Coaster or a Butterfly to decide on those yet… but generally, I tend to follow RCDB in terms of what I do and don’t count. If RCDB counts it, I probably will, and if they don’t, I probably won’t.

The only two non-real categories I have enabled for counting on CoasterCount are powered coasters and water coasters. I don’t have any of the “undefined” categories enabled (although to be honest, I also haven’t ticked off any of the “undefined” rides I’ve ridden).

You had to add Credits into the discussion didn't you! Now this becomes so much harder to define

I'm sure I came up with a fairly good definition when this discussion last came up. But I can't remember what it was anymore. So I'm going to go with "if it looks like a coaster, feels like a coaster, and most people refer to it as a coaster, then it's probably a coaster".

Aka. Powered Coasters yes, Butterfly's no, SuperSplash models maybe, so just count them for completion sake.
And Credits aren't important and we care way to much about them!

 

[NuttySquirrel]

I tend to go by what RCDB says with a few exceptions - I have counted SuperSplash at Plopsaland because for me it's definitely a watercoaster in the same category as Atlantica SuperSplash despite not having the 'before-drop dip' that RCDB claim it would need. On the other hand, I wouldn't count a butterfly because, like a Disk'O, it's intended primarily as a flat ride than a rollercoaster. I haven't done RC Racer yet but that one seems kind of iffy, I'm unsure whether I'd count that one or not.

If it's a dark ride like Droomvlucht I'll count it as a dark ride (sorry @Rob!), however something like Arthur is a bit of a grey area - I do count this as a powered coaster because it has enough coaster-like sections to be considered as one.

I've never been quite comfortable counting Mack Bobsleds like Avalanche but not toboggon rides like Oakwood's Bobsleigh or Toverland's Maximus' Blitz Bahn, because I'm not sure what the fundamental difference is apart from scale - but I've given in and deferred to RCDB in that respect.

On relocations/refurbishments, if the layout is substantially changed such that it produces a very different experience for the rider, then it's a new cred - so that would include RMC reimaginations and major changes to profiling such as Tonnerre 2 Zeus. I was in two minds whether to count re-tracked Megafobia but in the end decided the profiling changes weren't major enough.

In the end it is pretty subjective and there are a lot of grey areas, so I don't think we'll ever come up with a 'definitive' set of definitions unfortunately!

 

[Matt N]

I do count RC Racer, having done it when I was 8. I don’t know if it’s because RCDB counts it (that’s normally enough for me), but something about it seems and feels different to the Disk’Os for me.

If you think about it, it’s not much different to an impulse coaster except for the fact it doesn’t have a straight launch track, and few people would deny that impulse coasters are coasters.

In terms of retracks, my rule for counting them as new credits would be that they have to change the essence of the track in some tangible way beyond the track being new.

Under this rule, Nemesis Reborn was not a new credit, and neither was the new Hulk, and had I ridden both versions of the rides, I would not be classing things like CanCan Coaster, the retracked Python (at Efteling), Tonnerre Deux Zeus and the retracked Megafobia as new credits. However, I would count RMC conversions as new credits under this rule (and I would honestly debate whether some of the newer ones can even be considered retracks; Iron Gwazi, for example, uses so little of the original Gwazi structure that I think it can almost be considered a ground-up project), and contrary to RCDB, I would also count things like Phantom’s Revenge and PowderKeg as separate credits to their original rides, as the essence of the track completely changed with those revamps.

I also do not consider changing the trains to make the ride a new credit, even in the case of a sit-down conversion like The Wave.

 

[Poisson]

I have a loose definition of what is a cred, usually defined by the following:



Closest to not being a cred but actually are a cred would be the Technical Park Water Coasters, whatever the plastic coasters are that I've ridden or Sunkid Butterflies.