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Paultons Park: General Discussion

MattBTP said:
There's probably a few reasons why they chose this:

The wanted a coaster to interact with Cobra, and I should imagine bits of Cobra will need to be disassembled and put back together again. They probably want Gerst to oversee/consult on this, and it makes sense to have them also design and manufacture the new coaster.
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I'm not sure about that point. Gerst are the manufacturers, they dont put the ride together. As is the same with any coaster.

It will be assembled by a competent UK contractor. It will be just as easy for said contractor, to take parts of the ride down and put it back together, exactly how they assembled it in the first place, I would have thought. It is plausible what you say to be fair, I find it unlikely however.

I think they went with a Eurofighter because it is one of a few models that can give a good thrill layout, with a relatively tight budget. Basically they are relatively cheap when compared to comparable layouts from other models and manufacturers. Quite a bit of bang for your buck so to speak and bang for your head too.

The ride will be a success no doubt. It might not be popular within enthusiast circles, but they are popular with the public. A lot have been built worldwide for a reason.
 
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DistortAMG said:
I'm not sure about that point. Gerst are the manufacturers, they dont put the ride together. As is the same with any coaster.

It will be assembled by a competent UK contractor. It will be just as easy for said contractor, to take parts of the ride down and put it back together, exactly how they assembled it in the first place, I would have thought. It is plausible what you say to be fair, I find it unlikely however.

I think they went with a Eurofighter because it is one of a few models that can give a good thrill layout, with a relatively tight budget. Basically they are relatively cheap when compared to comparable layouts from other models and manufacturers. Quite a bit of bang for your buck so to speak and bang for your head too.

The ride will be a success no doubt. It might not be popular within enthusiast circles, but they are popular with the public. A lot have been built worldwide for a reason.
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Usually the ride vendor will supply a project management team for install, testing and commissioning. I know we had guys from Gerst on site when SAW was installed, and used RCS to build the actual ride on site.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
The mental gymnastics one has to perform to get to this comparison and conclusion are exhausting.

I really like my local independent pub. It's much nicer than any JD Wetherspoon. I could compare site against site, and I'm pretty confident that my local would always come out tops. Comparing a single site pub against an entire chain, in terms of longevity, worldwide impact and business strategy is illogical and also a little reductive.

Praise be to Paulton's, as much as you want, but there is absolutely no need to try to compare it to an international conglomerate in every post you write. It achieves little and we end up going in circles.
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Yes, Merlin is a much bigger organisation than the owning firm of Paultons Park, but with their dramatic international expansion and opening big Legoland parks in the Americas and Asia, etc, they with hindsight stretched themselves far too thinly and lost sight of pleasing customers, making more "penny wise and pound foolish" decisions in the process in comparison to the more ambitious and nimble Paultons Park.

While Paultons is arguably still a regional park, you can't ignore it becoming dramatically upscaled in comparison to only 15 years ago - while Merlin's Tussauds legacy parks like Chessington and Altons, etc, in that time frame gained a reputation of being tired hulks with mediocre, overpriced amenities. But since Covid they're trying to turn things around and arresting the decline or stagnation of their Tussauds parks well after their 90s/00s "glory years".

Also the last JD Wetherspoons I walked into (Perth, Scotland) was an understaffed dump, so giant multinationals like Merlin Entertainments do have their downsides next to smaller businesses as they get too bloated and start "Late Stage Capitalist" themselves to death with their version of ens******fication.
 
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TedShatner10 said:
Also the last JD Wetherspoons I walked into (Perth, Scotland) was an understaffed dump, so giant multinationals like Merlin Entertainments do have their downsides next to smaller businesses as they get too bloated and start "Late Stage Capitalist" themselves to death with their version of ens******fication.
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I never said that JD Wetherspoon establishments weren't understaffed dumps, or that they weren't shocking. I specifically stated that I would generally prefer and have a more pleasant experience in my small independent local with a single site. I also said that to constantly compare the two, because of their different organisational structures and corporate goals, was completely illogical.

Why must you keep trying to force this conversation in every post? Just let Paulton's be Paulton's
 
Another thing potentially worth remembering is that the Merlin parks did the “dramatic upscaling” part of the theme park lifecycle in prior years. Whereas Paultons has dramatically upscaled during the 2010s and 2020s, Alton Towers already did this during the 1990s, and Thorpe Park already did this during the 2000s.

The Merlin parks are a more mature product than Paultons, so to some extent, they naturally won’t continue to grow as quickly.
 
Matt N said:
Another thing potentially worth remembering is that the Merlin parks did the “dramatic upscaling” part of the theme park lifecycle in prior years. Whereas Paultons has dramatically upscaled during the 2010s and 2020s, Alton Towers already did this during the 1990s, and Thorpe Park already did this during the 2000s.

The Merlin parks are a more mature product than Paultons, so to some extent, they naturally won’t continue to grow as quickly.
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Alton Towers if anything has been shrinking with the removal of flat rides and shows.
 
The thing with Merlin & Paultons is that they are not on the same band length for where they are and what they are trying to be.

In the last 10-15 years Paultons has made noticeable but natu expansion. Building,theming and extending new themed areas, whether that be Tornado Springs, Lost Kingdom and everything else. Though not without its faults, the park offering had been expanded and improved whilst still retaining its identity and core values. 9 years on since my first visit, the park still has an organic and natural atmosphere and feels like a well-rounded product that’s mostly improved over time.

Now, let’s look at the Merlin machine. Before I whack the old corporate machine, not everything they’ve done is bad. They’ve added some worthy additions, whether it’s Hyperia, Alty Man’s & Jumanji (debatable I know) which have added new products to their offering. However the main issue is they haven’t fully retained or looked after their main parks too well. Cheapening out many times, cutting corners, outsourcing F&B (mostly for the worst) and making decisions that waters down the product but makes it less enticing to the consumer. Apart from a brief period around the early 2020’s, it has felt that the parks have mostly gone in a downhill spiral.

But getting onto Paultons, I don’t have too much of an issue of what they doing. Like sure there are some influences from say Europa, Asterix or even Plopsa maybe. But everything they’ve done so far has still felt like a Paultons investmen, and not a cheap ‘quick fix’ ip, bodge Job.
 
Europa Matt said:
In the last 10-15 years Paultons has made noticeable but natu expansion. Building,theming and extending new themed areas, whether that be Tornado Springs, Lost Kingdom and everything else. Though not without its faults, the park offering had been expanded and improved whilst still retaining its identity and core values. 9 years on since my first visit, the park still has an organic and natural atmosphere and feels like a well-rounded product that’s mostly improved over time.

Now, let’s look at the Merlin machine. Before I whack the old corporate machine, not everything they’ve done is bad. They’ve added some worthy additions, whether it’s Hyperia, Alty Man’s & Jumanji (debatable I know) which have added new products to their offering. However the main issue is they haven’t fully retained or looked after their main parks too well. Cheapening out many times, cutting corners, outsourcing F&B (mostly for the worst) and making decisions that waters down the product but makes it less enticing to the consumer. Apart from a brief period around the early 2020’s, it has felt that the parks have mostly gone in a downhill spiral.

But getting onto Paultons, I don’t have too much of an issue of what they doing. Like sure there are some influences from say Europa, Asterix or even Plopsa maybe. But everything they’ve done so far has still felt like a Paultons investmen, and not a cheap ‘quick fix’ ip, bodge Job.
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Paultons is only one theme park, but they broadly seem to be on an increasingly faster upward trajectory as an theme park, more pro-consumer in terms of "soft factors", even if their roller coasters and flatrides (with the Drakon being the latest) are relatively pedestrian and generally off the shelf (so-far).

Meanwhile while Merlin is a bigger and overall well run operator, their near monopoly on big parks made them complacent (or even arrogant) and since the mid to late 2010s, aside from the construction or revamping of flagship rides, they've been fighting a reactive, halfhearted battle against the slow decline/stagnation of their parks and paying the price of avoiding fully revamping attractions that got heavily themed 30 years ago.

It's like comparing giant AAA video game firms reselling the same tried and true IP, but little innovation and full of microtransactions in comparison to tiny AA/indie studios developing more memorable games that are better value for money.
 
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The recent Off The Tracks podcast with Lawrence Mancey is on YouTube and is very good. A lot of the questions raised here over this new Eurofighter development are answered quite well in the video.

  • OTSR are more appealing to younger kids and specficially their parents in allowing kids on this new ride. It is aimed a step up coaster after all, so OTSR are more appealing for that demographic.
  • One of the reasons Gerst are used, is because as mentioned by a member earlier, they had availability at the right time and are not stacked with orders for long periods like other manufacturers can be.
  • Gerst also has the advantage of having the CAD files for the ride it interacts with, making it easier to built the ride and interactions.
  • The DiskO ride may not stay for long, hence it not being themed in the new area. He is well aware of how it may look out of place, but lines and budgets need to be drawn somewhere....absolutely fair enough on that.
It is an interesting watch, Lawrence comes across as very articulate and knowledgeable not only with Paultons Park, but rides and the industry in general, he has a clear and obvious passion for the industry and park he works in. It is a good watch with some very interesting points made. The interviewer and interviewee come across very well in this video actually.


From: https://youtu.be/igYi4ARdcII?si=1ZCdgT-Yv0RKQVsV
 
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My kids are looking forward to the new coaster next year I very much doubt they care about restraints as long as they work.

Ive seen the interview and it's quite clear that edge will be going probably when they start developing the lodges area as it sits rather close to boundary of it so another 3-4 seasons at most.

Interesting that he mentions other parts of the park needs looking at longer term so I would assume he would mean Critter creek and the Teacups area but I don't see that happening until the lodges area is complete.
 
DistortAMG said:
  • One of the reasons Gerst are used, is because as mentioned by a member earlier, they had availability at the right time and are not stacked with orders for long periods like other manufacturers can be.
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I can't possibly think why this might be! I do get the logic here, but equally would this not make them question why Gerstlaurer are ready to go with few orders whereas other manufacturers do have full order books? Sure they clearly have a good relationship with Gerstlaurer, and I am sure they did consider other manufacturers, but I am still not convinced that this is the best choice of coaster.

Also not buying the OTSRs thing. If you do surveys etc. then parents are always going to say that they feel safer for their kids if there are OTSRs. But the reality of it? Doesn't seem to be a problem at Europa-Park where they is not a single OTSR in sight!
 
Rob said:
Also not buying the OTSRs thing. If you do surveys etc. then parents are always going to say that they feel safer for their kids if there are OTSRs. But the reality of it? Doesn't seem to be a problem at Europa-Park where they is not a single OTSR in sight!
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Europa Park is in Germany not in the UK different culture. And mentality is different to lapbars. Lapbars are relatively new thing in the UK the first time go upside down with Lap Bar was Icon since then Hyperia, Wave, Sik.

All have lapbars. And Lap Bars aren't always the best on Sik the final 5 inversions are painful on Sik.

Paultons Park has gone for a safe option something tries tested reliable and shown to work at other parks to get a start in the thrill market
 
Its a mentality thing. And given the old "nanny state" views of the UK in comparison to Germany then it surprises me very little that there would be a big difference in view.

Mean by technicality the inverting coaster they built at Legoland Germany has some form of OTSR. Anything that puts the mind at ease of a parent (saw that enough on Vampire when they were adamant that they sort out the restraint because being paid to do it on a near daily basis isn't good enough).

Then again there's some parents out there who would risk their baby and mum's health so...


Gerstlauer are probably just having that lull that many companies have. No longer the popular one and others have refined their own capabilities to directly compete with them. 3 coasters last year is extremely low but they do have other aspects of ride manufacture that obviously isn't considered on RCDB. If Paultons went to a number of manufacturers with a desire to open something next year and 90% said they couldn't do it then are they expected to sit on their hands and not continue their development?

Sometimes places can't win. Though the hype that Paultons cultivated didn't help matters.
 
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