[🌎 Universal GB] Planning, Transport and Infrastructure

[pluk]

This won't be anything new to anyone old like me, but some might not know that we once came quite close to Universal Studios GB a few decades ago, but newts got in the way and the money went into Port Adventura instead.

Universal theme park almost opened in Essex at Rainham Marshes

Universal almost came to the UK in the 90s, but it would be 35 years until it pushed on with plans.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[WanderingNortherner]

Update from Bedford Council meeting giving a general update and confirming that the station works are now paused for a re-design:



I went along to the station on 12/4 and it looked like work had already been paused:

 

[Blackrock]

So rumours are they are going to try and get Eurostar (or virgins new company) trains to run all the way into Bedford. It would have to be a very large station.

I assume Universal are going to have a say when it comes to the design of the station as to most people it will be the ‘Universal Station’ and the first thing the associate with the Park itself.

 

[dave___]

So rumours are they are going to try and get Eurostar (or virgins new company) trains to run all the way into Bedford. It would have to be a very large station.

I assume Universal are going to have a say when it comes to the design of the station as to most people it will be the ‘Universal Station’ and the first thing the associate with the Park itself.

I can't see that happening as it opens up all sorts of weird requirements about immigration and border force doesn't it.

Not saying it wouldn't happen but seems a bit unlikely in my eyes.

 

[Quantum]

I can't see the Eurostar going to Bedford direct. Changing trains isn't that much of a chore anyway especially if they are frequent. The codst and practically of Eurostar going to Bedford just doesn't make sense. It would be more beneficial to resurrect the DLP direct route which is entirely possible.

 

[Blackrock]

I can't see the Eurostar going to Bedford direct. Changing trains isn't that much of a chore anyway especially if they are frequent. The codst and practically of Eurostar going to Bedford just doesn't make sense. It would be more beneficial to resurrect the DLP direct route which is entirely possible.

But if they resurrected that service people could do both parks and get one direct train between both.

Probably not going to happen but it’s possible. And with Eurostar potentially having competition from Virgin at some point in the future then who knows.

Border control would be a barrier but not something that’s completely insurmountable.

 

[benpicko]

Would the Eurostar trains even fit on the standard UK tracks?

 

[dave___]

Would the Eurostar trains even fit on the standard UK tracks?

A long time ago GNER had one or two on the Kings Cross - York run. It was a great surprise when you were waiting for the train and one of those rolled up; didn’t last long though.

Regional Eurostar - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Blackrock]

A long time ago GNER had one or two on the Kings Cross - York run. It was a great surprise when you were waiting for the train and one of those rolled up; didn’t last long though.

Regional Eurostar - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Crewe station has a Eurostar waiting room that was never used.

But answering the other question they would fit on our tracks.

 

[Ted]

So rumours are they are going to try and get Eurostar (or virgins new company) trains to run all the way into Bedford. It would have to be a very large station.

I assume Universal are going to have a say when it comes to the design of the station as to most people it will be the ‘Universal Station’ and the first thing the associate with the Park itself.

I think this is highly unlikely to happen

1. There's no practical connection between the Midland Main Line and HS1 around St Pancras so trains couldn't go directly to Bedford from the latter route, plus the MML has limited to no extra capacity left on the route between St Pancras and Bedford

2. The other route is on the West Coast Main Line to go to Kempston Hardwick via Bletchley and that features a (limted) connection between the two in that part of North London. However that is also severely at capacity too and wouldn't even be viable until the first phase of HS2 is finished

3. If either route happened, you would need to build an additional border control point at either Kempston or Wixams for passengers going to mainland Europe. It's much easier just to go to/from the domestic and international platforms at St Pancras

But answering the other question they would fit on our tracks.

The older Eurostar trains can, but the newer ones cannot. They are built to continental gauge and wouldn't fit on the Midland Main Line. Plus by the time the park opens, the older trains will be nearly 40 years old and had issues with power supply when they operated on the East Coast Main Line 20 years ago. It's a cool idea on paper, but not really worth it

 

[jon81uk]

The government have pledged almost £500m in road and rail improvements for the project.

Universal theme park deal secured with UK pledge to spend £500m on transport

Attraction at site of former brickworks in Bedford expected to bring £50bn boost to Britain’s economy and create jobs

www.theguardian.com

The approximately half a billion pounds in infrastructure spending comprises £270m in rail upgrades including a new station at Wixams, which had originally been planned more than 20 years ago, and about £200m for road works, according to the Financial Times which first reported the arrangement.

 

[benpicko]

Brilliant news!

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Sorry, why aren't Universal paying for this themselves? Why is our government giving unfair and anti-competitive state aid to a multi-billion dollar American conglomerate?

Build the road, rail and air transport links, by all means. Make the benefiter pay for it though, as we would do with more or less any other development.

The A27 bypass upgrade plans, which expected to cost £320 million, were scrapped only last year because they were an "unfunded transport project".

At least now we know where the £450 million saved for scrapping the 2024/2025 Winter Fuel Payment allowance has been spent.

 

[benpicko]

At least now we know where the £450 million saved for scrapping the 2024/2025 Winter Fuel Payment allowance has been spent.

Not really relevant when one is a multi-year infrastructure investment with high financial return (both from Universal and outside it) and the other is a cut to a yearly benefit.

Infrastructure spending should take into consideration expected financial benefit -- the A27 bypass upgrade likely didn't make sense given the cost, whereas this clearly does

 

[dave___]

Sorry, why aren't Universal paying for this themselves? Why is our government giving unfair and anti-competitive state aid to a multi-billion dollar American conglomerate?

Build the road, rail and air transport links, by all means. Make the benefiter pay for it though, as we would do with more or less any other development.

The A27 bypass upgrade plans, which expected to cost £320 million, were scrapped only last year because they were an "unfunded transport project".

At least now we know where the £450 million saved for scrapping the 2024/2025 Winter Fuel Payment allowance has been spent.

Government build and expand for future demand too.

You can look towards M1 J45, which was built _years_ before the East Leeds housing developments, and also all the infrastructure to support the Gravity campus down in Somerset.

This thing falls under nationally significant infrastructure and it will open up the area for housing, business and so on which all needs new roads and railways. I’d actually prefer it to be an M-spur to the place like the M56 and T5 airport spurs rather than upgrading the dual carriageway a bit but can’t have everything.

 

[Matt N]

Sorry, why aren't Universal paying for this themselves? Why is our government giving unfair and anti-competitive state aid to a multi-billion dollar American conglomerate?

Build the road, rail and air transport links, by all means. Make the benefiter pay for it though, as we would do with more or less any other development.

The A27 bypass upgrade plans, which expected to cost £320 million, were scrapped only last year because they were an "unfunded transport project".

At least now we know where the £450 million saved for scrapping the 2024/2025 Winter Fuel Payment allowance has been spent.

The reason for it being granted is likely because the potential benefits of Universal, in terms of both jobs and impact on the economy, are something that no sane government would want to give up.

The project is forecast to bring an economic benefit of £50bn to the UK (if I’m remembering the report rightly?), will generate thousands of jobs, and will bring millions of people to the country annually. Universal will likely be our most visited tourist attraction by some margin. That could be a big deal for both the Bedfordshire region and the country more widely!

To get Universal to make that investment and bring those benefits, there has to be some give and take. The UK is (or was, at least) likely competing with many other countries across Europe, so if we want them to pick us, we have to make ourselves appealing. Universal won’t necessarily come if the government doesn’t sweeten the deal a tad, particularly given that other European countries are arguably stronger bets in some pretty important areas.

 

[Hid]

Sorry, why aren't Universal paying for this themselves? Why is our government giving unfair and anti-competitive state aid to a multi-billion dollar American conglomerate?

Build the road, rail and air transport links, by all means. Make the benefiter pay for it though, as we would do with more or less any other development.

The A27 bypass upgrade plans, which expected to cost £320 million, were scrapped only last year because they were an "unfunded transport project".

At least now we know where the £450 million saved for scrapping the 2024/2025 Winter Fuel Payment allowance has been spent.

Infrastructure is Infrastructure and investment is investment.

Universal could really boost the economy so it makes sense why they are so willing to help

 

[jon81uk]

Sorry, why aren't Universal paying for this themselves? Why is our government giving unfair and anti-competitive state aid to a multi-billion dollar American conglomerate?

Build the road, rail and air transport links, by all means. Make the benefiter pay for it though, as we would do with more or less any other development.

The A27 bypass upgrade plans, which expected to cost £320 million, were scrapped only last year because they were an "unfunded transport project".

At least now we know where the £450 million saved for scrapping the 2024/2025 Winter Fuel Payment allowance has been spent.

The station at Wixams has been planned for twenty years and supports a significant amount of housing already under construction. We absolutely should support new rail stations.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

The station at Wixams has been planned for twenty years and supports a significant amount of housing already under construction. We absolutely should support new rail stations.

If it's been planned for twenty years, it sort of begs the question as to why it hadn't been built already. If the theme park is the catalyst, and requires it, they could chip in or actually pay for it.

The project will cost Universal the best part of £10 billion to build. It's clearly within their budgetary means to pay for their own infrastructure too, like we expect every other park to do.

My issue isn't that infrastructure is being built to support the park and the development, that is fantastic news. My issue is that Universal can afford to pay for it, and should pay for it, like every other developer is expected to do, which I've made clear from the off.

I welcome the project. I don't welcome £500 million of the public purse being spent on the interests of a private company, especially when our finances are stretched and in desperate need in other places, which would have equal or better economic impact.

Edit: The Financial Times are reporting that:

The total cost could also end up being higher, they said, with other elements of a broader support package beyond transport and infrastructure still to be decided.

UK ministers line up £500mn transport package for Universal theme park

Scale of support for Comcast attraction a sign of government’s desire to attract inward investment

www.ft.com

Paywall link removed: https://archive.is/g9hBH

 

[dave___]

If it's been planned for twenty years, it sort of begs the question as to why it hadn't been built already. If the theme park is the catalyst, and requires it, they could chip in or actually pay for it.

I used to work alongside consultants for major road projects. 2-3 years design and consultation then a detailed design after the first consultation will take a full parliamentary period. Then you get a new parliamentary cycle and they cut or redirect the funding somewhere else and so you end up with either a multi year delay or a hugely bloated cost estimate.

The only hope is getting spades in the ground before the government changes but even then they can screw things up, a la HS2. The amount of money on the northern legs pissed away on that was frankly appalling.