[🌎 Universal GB] General Discussion

[QTXAdsy]

Disney about to lose more talent then.

They get to actually see their ideas come to life at Universal rather than be mothballed by Disney Execs. A sinking ship.

I would say this would affect Merlin far more...it's going to cut their throats unless they seriously change their current direction.

 

[Quantum]

Merlin ride engineers will be polishing Thier CVs in the coming months

 

[Maelstrom]

DW have had their worst gate figures for June in 15 years apparently (2 Pandemic years being an exception)

Seen so many posts about how empty it is relatively speaking given all the kids are off.

They won't fully sink but it's a company only heading one way at the moment. They need a massive rethink on their pricing strategy. Their core customers are starting to stay away.

I am a huge fan of both Disney and universal and do agree pricing is making it more in affordable for many however it is not just Disney-

In Disney most recent qtr earning report to investors booking at wdw this summer are up on summer 2024. Plus revenue etc is not an issue currently in the theme park decision. Attendance and revenue has actually dropped more at universal in the past 18 months vs disney world (I know part of that is people airing for epic to open). Even still the parks are not exactly dead and certainly not a sinking ship.

Also the lower park attendance this summer is not unique to Disney and even with epic Universe they are not seeing huge increases either, while looks busy at epic as you expect the existing parks crowds are also lower.

There is a broader issue with lower demand/appetite for travel in the US at the moment that is certainly not unique to Disney and universal.

Many of the videos out there are the usual bloggers looking for clicks and viewers and actual have little to no inside info.

In regards to regards to costs i agree pricing is high but Universal is no different- entrance tickets are broadly the same, in fact possibly worse this year at universal if want to visit epic.

Food prices are more experience at universal than Disney. Universal charge for parking at their hotels, Disney don’t. Opening hours outside the peak of summer are longer at the Disney parks than universal.

I don’t get why there are some people that seem to pick either universal and Disney and want to see one fail. The competition is good. You even see it between Disneyland and Disney world fans with.

 

[Dave]

DW have had their worst gate figures for June in 15 years apparently (2 Pandemic years being an exception)

Seen so many posts about how empty it is relatively speaking given all the kids are off.

They won't fully sink but it's a company only heading one way at the moment. They need a massive rethink on their pricing strategy. Their core customers are starting to stay away.

Reports are that Epic universe is not exactly flooded, I think Florida as a whole is seeing a drop in guest numbers.

Edit: Maelstrom articulated the point far better

 

[rob666]

With the Donald in the driving seat and millions scared about the future of the economy, low attendance at expensive leisure attractions is pretty much bound to happen.

Lots of state and national government workers are on the edge of unemployment, courtesy of the terror twins.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

Pretty sure I saw on social media about all of the people thinking they were really clever by visiting WDW on Epic Universe Opening Day, the Disney parks was more rammed than Epic because Universal had capped attendance and everyone had the same idea.

These parks mutually benefit each other, we’ve seen Pleasure Beach cheering on USGB already. Universal will help theme parks permeate in how people spend their money in hospitality and tourism. People will see Universal, and then decide that Towers and the likes are cheaper and can be done in a day trip. A bit like how Netflix goes “If you liked this show, you might like this next…”.

Not to say UK parks should just coast by, they need to invest to remain competitive products. Chessington is probably the furthest ahead in adapting to Universal right now with investments in Jumanji, Paw Patrol and Minecraft. Not that other parks have to do the same, but future decisions will be made with Universal leading the market in mind.

 

[Matt N]

For all of the rhetoric about “competition” between Alton, Blackpool and Drayton in 1994, it’s worth noting that Year of the Rollercoaster didn’t detract from parks that didn’t build roller coasters. It simply grew the overall UK theme park industry. All three parks were really successful in 1994, as were many others, and the year gave our theme park industry its time in the sun.

This is where I think our existing UK parks might benefit from Universal. Despite people making comparisons to Orlando, I personally doubt the degree of international visitation that Alton, Thorpe et al will receive as a result of Universal, but what I think it could do is heighten interest in theme parks among the domestic market.

Over the last decade or so, the UK theme park industry has had a bumpy ride, what with the Smiler crash, COVID and all the associated negativity. Universal could generate excitement around theme parks among domestic visitors and benefit the whole industry.

 

[Ted]

Pretty sure I saw on social media about all of the people thinking they were really clever by visiting WDW on Epic Universe Opening Day, the Disney parks was more rammed than Epic because Universal had capped attendance and everyone had the same idea.

These parks mutually benefit each other, we’ve seen Pleasure Beach cheering on USGB already. Universal will help theme parks permeate in how people spend their money in hospitality and tourism. People will see Universal, and then decide that Towers and the likes are cheaper and can be done in a day trip. A bit like how Netflix goes “If you liked this show, you might like this next…”.

Not to say UK parks should just coast by, they need to invest to remain competitive products. Chessington is probably the furthest ahead in adapting to Universal right now with investments in Jumanji, Paw Patrol and Minecraft. Not that other parks have to do the same, but future decisions will be made with Universal leading the market in mind.

There might not be the same mind set in the UK, but with Florida a lot of first time visitors will go to both Universal and Disney because of the mindset of "Since we've flown all this way, why not do everything?" and because of this perspective, I think the compete more with each other, rather than against each other.

You are absolutely right in that both Universal UK and our existing parks will still have their place with the public. Towers, Thorpe etc are more of a fun day out kind of thing that you could do a few times a year, where as the former is more of a "once a year" kind of thing for a lot of families

 

[flyingguitar]

If you think Disney is a sinking ship then you have never seen ships sink.

When Universal opened in Florida originally everyone said the same thing and quite the opposite happened.

Disney Imagineers have always developed around 20 concepts for every one put into production (universal probably do as well to be fair). Universal also copy over more attractions than Disney do, and the mouse tends to depend less on screen based attractions.

There are rumours starting to bubble up that Disney are looking at a 5th park in Florida and they have recently pretty much doubled the size of studios so o don’t think their imagineers are lost for work.

I personally think Disney's parks are a colapse waiting to happen (like years / decades, not months)

They have essentially been copying universal the past couple years, and only installing IP based rides, loosing Disney worlds character a bit (for instance Hollywood studios isn't a place which shows you how movies are made, it is where you see starwars, toystory etc). it also is often just rammed in

their new additions also aren't too spectacular, some are pretty good but you also have some cheap additions such as toystory land which looks like it could be made by sixflags

on top of this features have been dropping from the park (free parking for hotel guests, free fast track (this is a good thing but consumers don't see it that way), actors cut and more) all the while prices have been hiked masivley and addons (quite a few were things that used to be like a free thing) making it feel as thuogh you have been knickled and dimed

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

They have essentially been copying universal the past couple years, and only installing IP based rides,

Disneyland started as an IP. The television show which Walt created for ABC literally funded the construction of the park.

The Disneyland TV show then featured dramatic segments for rides and areas which all ended up in the park.

Disneyland is the first IP park, in more ways than one.

 

[flyingguitar]

Disneyland started as an IP. The television show which Walt created for ABC literally funded the construction of the park.

The Disneyland TV show then featured dramatic segments for rides and areas which all ended up in the park.

Disneyland is the first IP park, in more ways than one.

I feel that answer is quite pedantic, we can argue what an IP specifically means, however that misses the point of my arguments

A huge amount of extremely popular rides in Disney that haven't had an IP attached to them (some had movies made afterward, due to the success)
to list a few:
space mountain,
pirates of the Caribbean,
haunted mansion,
tiki tiki room,
big thunder mountain,
the carousel of progress
and those are just from magic kingdom!

the problem is currently Disney will just look at the revenue X IP made, and demand a park ride be installed for that IP, they don't care about the location, or how it fits with the rest of the themes.

some times it works well (for instance the pandora worked well because the lead imaginer kept it to conservation and animals)
other times it is just rammed into a place, loosing the Disney detail they are famous for, it also comes across as quite lazy and removes some of the uniqueness of the parks, for instance guardians of the galaxy at both DL and WDW, or starwars at DLP.

The IP will also wear out, you can only milk a cow so many times. Take star wars as a prime example, IP can wear out extremely quickly or last for decades and it can be impossible to tell before hand.

IP rides can also struggle with telling a story, unless the IP fits a ride, it often turns into dialogue for X main character asking you to do something.

How is universal different?
they have always used IP and how they use IP is OFTEN different with each IP having its own land, or some cohesive land to tie multiple together (see Nintendo land, dark universe, cartoon land, etc)
Universal also will either refresh lands, or swap IP's regularly, often within 25 years of the land opening keeping it fresh

 

[rob666]

If we are being pedantic, which I don't think goosey is...
Pirates of the Caribbean not an IP?
Six films, games and a dozen books and comics...all copyright protected...sounds like an I P to me, even though it was generated in reverse.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I feel that answer is quite pedantic, we can argue what an IP specifically means, however that misses the point of my arguments

A huge amount of extremely popular rides in Disney that haven't had an IP attached to them (some had movies made afterward, due to the success)
to list a few:
space mountain,
pirates of the Caribbean,
haunted mansion,
tiki tiki room,
big thunder mountain,
the carousel of progress
and those are just from magic kingdom!

the problem is currently Disney will just look at the revenue X IP made, and demand a park ride be installed for that IP, they don't care about the location, or how it fits with the rest of the themes.

some times it works well (for instance the pandora worked well because the lead imaginer kept it to conservation and animals)
other times it is just rammed into a place, loosing the Disney detail they are famous for, it also comes across as quite lazy and removes some of the uniqueness of the parks, for instance guardians of the galaxy at both DL and WDW, or starwars at DLP.

The IP will also wear out, you can only milk a cow so many times. Take star wars as a prime example, IP can wear out extremely quickly or last for decades and it can be impossible to tell before hand.

IP rides can also struggle with telling a story, unless the IP fits a ride, it often turns into dialogue for X main character asking you to do something.

How is universal different?
they have always used IP and how they use IP is OFTEN different with each IP having its own land, or some cohesive land to tie multiple together (see Nintendo land, dark universe, cartoon land, etc)
Universal also will either refresh lands, or swap IP's regularly, often within 25 years of the land opening keeping it fresh

You're missing the point. Between 1954 and 1983, a weekly television show aired on one of the major three American TV networks, specifically and mostly entirely about Disneyland.

Every week, from inception to construction, to opening and beyond, one of America's largest television shows was dedicated to making the public familiar with Disneyland.

The episode "Disneyland: From the Pirates of the Caribbean to the World of Tomorrow" featured a visit to WED Enterprises (now Walt Disney Imagineering), where the audience got a glimpse into how Disneyland attractions were developed. It specifically highlighted the creation of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, including footage from its opening day and guests experiencing the ride. The episode also showcased other attractions in the newly updated Tomorrowland.

Another episode, aired in 1979, featured the Osmond Brothers visiting Disneyland and experiencing the Haunted Mansion, which was a new attraction at the time. Development began for an animated TV series based on The Haunted Mansion, but it never aired.

Space Mountain's debut at Walt Disney World was featured heavily in the television special called "Welcome to the World",

Guests attending Disneyland knew the park inside out, without ever having visited. They knew the rides, they knew the story behind the rides. The US only had three television channels for the majority of time that this show aired.

Disneyland is the IP. It has its own identity, it has its own mega television show before the park (leading to the Davy Crocket hype). It couldn't be anymore IP.

 

[Dave]

I personally think Disney's parks are a colapse waiting to happen (like years / decades, not months)

They have essentially been copying universal the past couple years, and only installing IP based rides, loosing Disney worlds character a bit (for instance Hollywood studios isn't a place which shows you how movies are made, it is where you see starwars, toystory etc). it also is often just rammed in

their new additions also aren't too spectacular, some are pretty good but you also have some cheap additions such as toystory land which looks like it could be made by sixflags

on top of this features have been dropping from the park (free parking for hotel guests, free fast track (this is a good thing but consumers don't see it that way), actors cut and more) all the while prices have been hiked masivley and addons (quite a few were things that used to be like a free thing) making it feel as thuogh you have been knickled and dimed

Disney had IP based rides before Universal came along.

If you want to know why Disney have more IP based rides these days look at the recent response to their movies, customers are not going to origional productions, but their remakes are doing big bucks. It’s the audience that is changing not Disney (probably because social media is making everyone imaginatively lazy).

Same with Universal, IOA nearly went bust until they brought Harry Potter in, an IP literally saved the park.

 

[Matt N]

Enthusiasts may bemoan IPs in Disney parks, but I think it’s what the public wants to some extent.

While the parks did once focus more on original attractions, I think the parks have become synonymous with characters in the public eye. Many people will be disappointed if they can’t see characters and enter worlds from the films and TV shows they love.

Epic Universe is almost wholly IP-based, and is getting rave reviews. If IPs are executed well, I really don’t see the issue.

 

[dave___]

Enthusiasts may bemoan IPs in Disney parks, but I think it’s what the public wants to some extent.

While the parks did once focus more on original attractions, I think the parks have become synonymous with characters in the public eye. Many people will be disappointed if they can’t see characters and enter worlds from the films and TV shows they love.

Epic Universe is almost wholly IP-based, and is getting rave reviews. If IPs are executed well, I really don’t see the issue.

IP is fine as long as it's not IP for the sake of IP. A bit of slapdash theming *cough* Jumanji *cough* does not make for a good IP experience. Epic Universe have gone for full immersion with their stuff and that's how it should be, I want to believe I am actually in Hobbitland or back in 1959 Hill Valley or whatever.

 

[jon81uk]

Merlin ride engineers will be polishing Thier CVs in the coming months

Coming years, they won't be recruiting ride engineers until a year or two before opening. Right now it is high level planners and managers being recruited.

There might not be the same mind set in the UK, but with Florida a lot of first time visitors will go to both Universal and Disney because of the mindset of "Since we've flown all this way, why not do everything?" and because of this perspective, I think the compete more with each other, rather than against each other.

That is more of a UK mindset, as we are flying all that way. Whereas US citizens don't get as much annual leave so are more likely to do a one week trip at one resort or the other. Or might just do a single day at Universal but four at Disney. There is a reason why the default ticket sold to UK guests is for two weeks.

 

[flyingguitar]

If we are being pedantic, which I don't think goosey is...
Pirates of the Caribbean not an IP?
Six films, games and a dozen books and comics...all copyright protected...sounds like an I P to me, even though it was generated in reverse.

it wasn't when the ride was built, the ride was first, then Disney tried to use the ride to make movies (they have done the same with the jungle cruise, haunted mansion)

You're missing the point. Between 1954 and 1983, a weekly television show aired on one of the major three American TV networks, specifically and mostly entirely about Disneyland.

Every week, from inception to construction, to opening and beyond, one of America's largest television shows was dedicated to making the public familiar with Disneyland.

The episode "Disneyland: From the Pirates of the Caribbean to the World of Tomorrow" featured a visit to WED Enterprises (now Walt Disney Imagineering), where the audience got a glimpse into how Disneyland attractions were developed. It specifically highlighted the creation of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, including footage from its opening day and guests experiencing the ride. The episode also showcased other attractions in the newly updated Tomorrowland.

Another episode, aired in 1979, featured the Osmond Brothers visiting Disneyland and experiencing the Haunted Mansion, which was a new attraction at the time. Development began for an animated TV series based on The Haunted Mansion, but it never aired.

Space Mountain's debut at Walt Disney World was featured heavily in the television special called "Welcome to the World",

Guests attending Disneyland knew the park inside out, without ever having visited. They knew the rides, they knew the story behind the rides. The US only had three television channels for the majority of time that this show aired.

Disneyland is the IP. It has its own identity, it has its own mega television show before the park (leading to the Davy Crocket hype). It couldn't be anymore IP.

To me that has always been a documentary discussing Disneyland, (I wouldn't say AT has IP based rides because they have had documentarys) by IP rides I mean an existing IP which they didn't create for the park.

Disney had IP based rides before Universal came along.

If you want to know why Disney have more IP based rides these days look at the recent response to their movies, customers are not going to origional productions, but their remakes are doing big bucks. It’s the audience that is changing not Disney (probably because social media is making everyone imaginatively lazy).

Same with Universal, IOA nearly went bust until they brought Harry Potter in, an IP literally saved the park.

But audiences have been going to new productions, and been doing that for a long time.
Think about barben-heimer, neither movie had a big movie before,

the reason Disney only do remakes is because they are considered safe, however audiences are getting tired of them and viewing numbers has dropped.

the same is happening with marvel, at much lower numbers compared to end game.

I never said IP's are bad, the problem I find is how disney are currently using IP, only using IP to make new rides, adding the IP even though it makes no sence (adding IP for the sake of IP), e.g Encanto and Indiana jones in animal kingdom, a place dedicated to animals and conservation

 

[jon81uk]

To me that has always been a documentary discussing Disneyland, (I wouldn't say AT has IP based rides because they have had documentarys) by IP rides I mean an existing IP which they didn't create for the park.

It wasn't reallyt a documentary, more a sales pitch. But also Disney had other shows like the True Life Adventures that inspired Adventureland and coming out of the 1950s Cowboy films were everywhere (although not sure what Disney actually made in that genre) so Frontierland was heavily influenced by what was already popular on film and TV. Even if it wasn't direct IP, Disneyland was still inspired by the TS shows Disney and others were making in the 50s and 60s.

Think about barben-heimer, neither movie had a big movie before,

Barbie is an IP, even if the movie is an original story. Oppenheimer is based on a book (American Prometheus) written about an actual person, so not an IP but not an original screenplay either really. Although yes neither are franchise movies.

the reason Disney only do remakes is because they are considered safe, however audiences are getting tired of them and viewing numbers has dropped.

The Rest is Entertainment podcast was discussing F1 the Movie this week and its success at the box office and the fact is is an original story but effectively still based on an IP. Richard Osman said there are 80 or 90 original titles made in Hollywood every year and about 60 franchise titles. But in terms of the box office, 82% of box office comes from franchise and only 18% from originals.
So based on that statistic it doesn't seem like audiences are getting that tired of franchise movies. Some franchises aren't performing as well as they did, but audiences still aren't flocking to originals.

 

[rob666]

As a kid, late sixties and right through the seventies, we had "The Wonderful World Of Disney" on the telly, in every school holidays without fail, for at least a couple of hours a week...either one long special episode, or two one hour serial episodes.
Mixed features, couple of cartoons, wildlife section, and always a feature on the development of the park/parks.
Every last kid in the land watched every last one...so it seemed, because there was usually only one channel showing kids stuff at the time...not the fifty options kids have today.

It wasn't just our friends over the water.