[🌎 Universal GB] Planning, Transport and Infrastructure

[Bowser]

I’ve got zero memory of ever noticing it! But overall it just didn’t feel like a place I would go as a local, a small number of overpriced restaurants, a Disney store and not much else. At least Disney Springs has a full mall too and CityWalk feels like a better selection of restaurants.

Plus there’s the Val D’Europe shopping centre which is actually in the town itself with shops, restaurants, aquarium etc.

 

[rob@rar]

Conversely evidently the direct DLP service wasn’t popular enough to maintain and with an existing interchange already in place it seems somewhat redundant to attempt similar for Universal.

The dedicated DLP service was extremely popular. I used it a lot and it was always rammed during school holidays and weekends, and very busy at other times. The reason Eurostar cut the service (same for their direct to the Alps service) is space constraints at St Pancras as a result of additional post-Brexit passport checks. They don’t have enough room to add additional facilities for immigration checks, so there is a limit to how many people they can process at peak times. As a result their fringe services (DLP and ski train, for example) have been cut, and their Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam routes operate at lower capacity than before Brexit. If you’ve caught a Eurostar train around 9am you’ll understand the problem - it’s horribly crowded getting through security and passport checks.

 

[Bowser]

The dedicated DLP service was extremely popular. I used it a lot and it was always rammed during school holidays and weekends, and very busy at other times. The reason Eurostar cut the service (same for their direct to the Alps service) is space constraints at St Pancras as a result of additional post-Brexit passport checks. They don’t have enough room to add additional facilities for immigration checks, so there is a limit to how many people they can process at peak times. As a result their fringe services (DLP and ski train, for example) have been cut, and their Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam routes operate at lower capacity than before Brexit. If you’ve caught a Eurostar train around 9am you’ll understand the problem - it’s horribly crowded getting through security and passport checks.

What are the additional passport checks post Brexit at St Pancreas? Both UK and France check your passport which is the same as prior to Brexit.

New routes are planned for Germany and Switzerland, how will that additional capacity be dealt with if Brexit has lowered the current capacity?

My understanding was the DLP route was cut due to the passport/customs requirements at that end not being financially viable.

 

[Lewis232]

Capacity is 30% lower than pre Brexit due to the extra checks and stamping that didn't have to be done before and it'll get much worse. I use Eurostar several times a year, generally saves me time and money not having to travel out to an airport by train but that terminal is awful, always rammed to full capacity and the queues for security and passport checks can be ridiculous. I read Eurostar are looking to rebuild it and take some space away from arrivals but probably not a cheap or easy solution.

 

[flyingguitar]

I’m not sure this is true in terms of price. There are so many other factors and variables to consider with the cost of travel (booking in advance, transport to airport, luggage fees etc). Yes you can probably sometimes get a £10 flight to and from various provincial airports but there are always additional costs associated with that, both literal and physical.

Personally I have never been on a Eurostar that isn’t almost completely full. We booked our recent DLP trip 2 months in advance and the cost was competitive, especially in relation to the convenience it provided.

Conversely evidently the direct DLP service wasn’t popular enough to maintain and with an existing interchange already in place it seems somewhat redundant to attempt similar for Universal.

I haven't been on a euro star (appart from the car one with a coach trip) and I just checked, 1st Sept it is £50 (cheapest) London to Paris, Ryan Air is £23

Add on to that if I want to go from bham to Paris, or Liverpool I would need an additional ticket to London (and Ryan Air is £15 from bham)

That ranges from double to triple the price

 

[rob@rar]

Additional biometric checks required for travel in to the EU when their ETIAS system is up and running, and we’ve already seen a longer process due to closer checks to passports and the requirement for stamping of passports. Might only add 30-60 seconds to the process, but when you are trying to get 800 people on to a train it soon adds up to a huge amount of time required at immigration, which is problematic if you can’t expand the number of immigration desks or terminals. The same issue might well affect Marne la Vallee station, and they might not want to invest in those facilities as it’s only one UK-bound train per day (same issue for the stations in the Alps, except there it’s only one or two trains per week), but it’s a real crunch at St Pancras. Eurostar is on record to explain this post-Brexit problem, and as said in the previous post it has resulted in a significant capacity dedication, perhaps as much as 30%.

I travel in and out of the EU at least a dozen times a year and post-Brexit immigration checks can add up to huge delays. Geneva, Lyon, Innsbruck, Munich airports mostly queue-free before Brexit, now up to 90 minutes wait to get through passport control. It’s a bit worse for Eurotunnel, especially returning to the UK, and will get much worse when everyone needs to get out of the car for fingerprint checks. Eurostar is bad, will also get worse.

 

[flyingguitar]

If hs2 gets finished (if I recall correctly theybapproved the part which connects with hs1) I wonder if they could add a bham international, that could take strain from st Pancras

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

If hs2 gets finished (if I recall correctly theybapproved the part which connects with hs1) I wonder if they could add a bham international, that could take strain from st Pancras

Birmingham International (BHI) already exists:

https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/stations/birmingham-international

 

[Lewis232]

I haven't been on a euro star (appart from the car one with a coach trip) and I just checked, 1st Sept it is £50 (cheapest) London to Paris, Ryan Air is £23

Add on to that if I want to go from bham to Paris, or Liverpool I would need an additional ticket to London (and Ryan Air is £15 from bham)

That ranges from double to triple the price

But if you live in London, or are on holiday in London and live in Paris then the £50 fare will be cheaper than having to add on a train ticket to get to Stanstead / Luton / Gatwick and another train journey from the airport again at the other end to get the £23 flight. Not to mention quicker as it takes you straight from city centre to city centre, as well as just being a nicer journey by train IMO. I use it a lot, trains leave every hour to Paris and the trains are usually very full so the demand is definitely there. Ideally they need to expand services to other cities, increase demand and bring fares down but they can't currently do that as the capacity is not there at St Pancras to deal with those passenger volumes at passport control.

 

[Bowser]

But if you live in London, or are on holiday in London and live in Paris then the £50 fare will be cheaper than having to add on a train ticket to get to Stanstead / Luton / Gatwick and another train journey from the airport again at the other end to get the £23 flight. Not to mention quicker as it takes you straight from city centre to city centre, as well as just being a nicer journey by train IMO. I use it a lot, trains leave every hour to Paris and the trains are usually very full so the demand is definitely there. Ideally they need to expand services to other cities, increase demand and bring fares down but they can't currently do that as the capacity is not there at St Pancras to deal with those passenger volumes at passport control.

Plus free luggage without restrictions for each passenger which would significantly increase the Ryanair fare and flexibility to amend bookings.

 

[Blackrock]

They’ve been on about using Ebbsfleet due to capacity restraints for a fair while now.

If a competitor comes into the market we’ll see that and/or Stratford international being used.

 

[flyingguitar]

But if you live in London, or are on holiday in London and live in Paris then the £50 fare will be cheaper than having to add on a train ticket to get to Stanstead / Luton / Gatwick and another train journey from the airport again at the other end to get the £23 flight. Not to mention quicker as it takes you straight from city centre to city centre, as well as just being a nicer journey by train IMO. I use it a lot, trains leave every hour to Paris and the trains are usually very full so the demand is definitely there. Ideally they need to expand services to other cities, increase demand and bring fares down but they can't currently do that as the capacity is not there at St Pancras to deal with those passenger volumes at passport control.

People will still have to get to St Pancras International, London is a massive place if you live next to it then sure it probably isn't too hard, but you could also live near Gatwick, Heathrow etc.

In addition europe is quite large, with many cities, if the eurostar to universal only goes to Paris and Brussels but you live in hamburg or Amsterdam, it would probably be much easier to fly. The problem is if there is sufficient demand from the cities the eurostar stops at. Similar to how it is much better to fly from bham vs get the eurostar from London.

 

[Blackrock]

It’s be interesting to see what the demand would be with a service between DLP and Universal, how many customers would do both and get the train between both.

Honestly I’m not sure how many would do that, but I guess it entirely depends on what’s on offer here at Universal. We balk at a 3 hour journey, to Americans that’s a normal commute.

 

[flyingguitar]

It’s be interesting to see what the demand would be with a service between DLP and Universal, how many customers would do both and get the train between both.

Honestly I’m not sure how many would do that, but I guess it entirely depends on what’s on offer here at Universal. We balk at a 3 hour journey, to Americans that’s a normal commute.

I think people could want to do both, however, if they were european, I wouldn't see why they would do both at the same time (do a mini trip to london, then a mini trip to paris seperatly)

a separate thing is that American trains are extremely bad (like one train per day), to them UK rail ways are like a god send let alone Swiss rail, so I do wonder how many would actually choose to catch the train, in addition (unless we re-join the EU) the passport controls are still in place, making it quite the hassle to get on compared to your typical train.

Americans could also just hire a car, and drive around the UK, then ferry or euro tunnel it to France and do a road trip round France (although I may be over estimating the holiday time Americans have) * assuming you can get a multi country rental

 

[rob@rar]

I wonder what Universal would think of plans which made it very easy to spend less time at their Bedford park, and more time at Disney’s park in Paris? And vice versa?

 

[Bowser]

a separate thing is that American trains are extremely bad (like one train per day

Trains in the heavily populated NE and West coast are plentiful and excellent, have got them many times. Rest of the country is a waste of time though.

 

[flyingguitar]

Trains in the heavily populated NE and West coast are plentiful and excellent, have got them many times. Rest of the country is a waste of time though.

Intercity trains I guess I should have prefaced, (there are only like 2 some what reasonable intercity services throughout the US)

but also their commuter services are quite poor compared to TFL, paris etc. heavily underfunded, from what I have heard the only good service is the new York lines, the rest are passable at taking you to and from the city centre, that is it.

also what proportion compared to all Americans are within the NE and west coast, who have used the trains.

The problem is that places treat public transit like it should generate profit, rather than the public service it is (we also do this, I hope that Great British Railways (I hate that name) is able to reduce this)

although they did do something right with amtrak, they just havent funded it,