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Monorail Refurbishment

Hid said:
Anyone got the different soundtracks for each Monorai Train
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You'd already asked this. Soundtrack leaks are very hard to come by, so I doubt anyone's been interested enough in the Monorail to try and leak the audio.

I'm honestly half surprised the Monorail is still going. Even last year it felt like it was ready to give out at any moment.

Circling back to the 'why not buses?' chat many months ago - Monorail staff are 'just' rides staff. It's ran off the back of the same op area as Galactica and Nemesis. Because it's its own private transport system, it's not subject to the same rules about driving and training standards as driving a passenger carrying bus would. Alton Towers would most likely outsource to D&G, sure, but that then comes at its own cost, and they barely want to run a bus service anyway.

I honestly see very little future in the Monorail unfortunately. It'll be 40 next year, it's worse for wear with a frankly uncomfortable ride, cramped carriages and slow & cumbersome staffing. It'll be Skyrided - SBNO with empty promises of reopening dates - until they know what they want to do with it. I don't see it lasting to 50. 45 is optimistic.
 
dw1812 said:
You'd already asked this. Soundtrack leaks are very hard to come by, so I doubt anyone's been interested enough in the Monorail to try and leak the audio.

I'm honestly half surprised the Monorail is still going. Even last year it felt like it was ready to give out at any moment.

Circling back to the 'why not buses?' chat many months ago - Monorail staff are 'just' rides staff. It's ran off the back of the same op area as Galactica and Nemesis. Because it's its own private transport system, it's not subject to the same rules about driving and training standards as driving a passenger carrying bus would. Alton Towers would most likely outsource to D&G, sure, but that then comes at its own cost, and they barely want to run a bus service anyway.

I honestly see very little future in the Monorail unfortunately. It'll be 40 next year, it's worse for wear with a frankly uncomfortable ride, cramped carriages and slow & cumbersome staffing. It'll be Skyrided - SBNO with empty promises of reopening dates - until they know what they want to do with it. I don't see it lasting to 50. 45 is optimistic.
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No Monorail is a keystone ride it is 100% required for some people also Monorail this year has been running more trains then in years so I think they will continue to do maintenance on it also. And there are no clear roads from the hotels to the main entrance which in the morning that road is near impossible to get through
 
What makes it so necessary, though? There's a second gate that the park can use, plus there's the Skyride on top of that...

Fact of the matter is, whether you want to believe it or not, the Monorail is old, uncared for, and it's not immune to time. It's nearly 40. It probably was never meant to get this old.
 
dw1812 said:
What makes it so necessary, though? There's a second gate that the park can use, plus there's the Skyride on top of that...

Fact of the matter is, whether you want to believe it or not, the Monorail is old, uncared for, and it's not immune to time. It's nearly 40. It probably was never meant to get this old.
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Because the park was not designed around that 2nd gate so you would have an influx into that area that could not cope.

Monorail is old but that's not to say they don't do maintenance to it if it was so uncared for then would the Celebration Train be back in action of Explorer Train be repaired.

And for thst matter there are older Monoraild out there
 
But for those guests who need it? That's like saying having those non-ambulatory RAP entrances at rides is a bad idea because they make the ride busier.

And yes, there are older monorails. However they aren't nearly as limited in scale as the Alton Towers monorail, or they were built in-house.

In fact, let's look at Von Roll monorails.

Sentosa Monorail (Mk. 1)
  • Opened in 1982. Closed in 2005.
Sea World Australia (Mk. 2)
  • Opened in 1986. Closed in 2022.
Expo 86/Alton Towers (Mk. 2)
  • Opened in 1986. Relocated in 1987.
Expo 88/Europa Park (Mk. 2)
  • Opened in 1988. Relocated in 1989. One train sold to Sea World Australia and scrapped.
Sydney (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1988. Closed in 2013.
Broadbeach (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1989. Closed in 2017.
Jurong Bird Park Monorail (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1991. Closed in 2012.
AirTrain Newark (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1996. Scheduled close by 2030.
Of all 8 of these Von Roll systems, only 3 remain, and the oldest one remaining is Alton Towers. The Europa Park Monorail has been substantially modified by the Mack family, and AirTrain Newark is scheduled for replacement by 2030. A lot of the reason other monorails have closed is because of parts, maintenance or obsolescence. These systems don't last forever. By the time the AirTrain closes, the Towers monorail will be 44, a whole 16 years older than the next oldest monorail to close. AirTrain will be 34.

So yes, there are older monorails. But there aren't any older Von Roll monorails, and that's what counts here.
 
dw1812 said:
But for those guests who need it? That's like saying having those non-ambulatory RAP entrances at rides is a bad idea because they make the ride busier.

And yes, there are older monorails. However they aren't nearly as limited in scale as the Alton Towers monorail, or they were built in-house.

In fact, let's look at Von Roll monorails.

Sentosa Monorail (Mk. 1)
  • Opened in 1982. Closed in 2005.
Sea World Australia (Mk. 2)
  • Opened in 1986. Closed in 2022.
Expo 86/Alton Towers (Mk. 2)
  • Opened in 1986. Relocated in 1987.
Expo 88/Europa Park (Mk. 2)
  • Opened in 1988. Relocated in 1989. One train sold to Sea World Australia and scrapped.
Sydney (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1988. Closed in 2013.
Broadbeach (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1989. Closed in 2017.
Jurong Bird Park Monorail (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1991. Closed in 2012.
AirTrain Newark (Mk. 3)
  • Opened in 1996. Scheduled close by 2030.
Of all 8 of these Von Roll systems, only 3 remain, and the oldest one remaining is Alton Towers. The Europa Park Monorail has been substantially modified by the Mack family, and AirTrain Newark is scheduled for replacement by 2030. A lot of the reason other monorails have closed is because of parts, maintenance or obsolescence. These systems don't last forever. By the time the AirTrain closes, the Towers monorail will be 44, a whole 16 years older than the next oldest monorail to close. AirTrain will be 34.

So yes, there are older monorails. But there aren't any older Von Roll monorails, and that's what counts here.
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But this season has seen an uptick in trains showing they are doing maintenance to it
 
Lets say the towers are to start uses buses.

1, will need a few. 3/4/5 max. Maybe more. Buses are not cheap pieces of kit. Even second hand, which is what they will buy.

2, storage. New shed will be needed to accommodate said buses.

3. On site mechanics will be needed. They will need a garage. They will need to be full time. Will need to be more than a couple available. Once those things go, they go. If they are all running, stood around not doing anything.

4, drivers. It's expensive to hire/train to be a bus driver. Even though it won't be on the national highways. I'm guessing for insurance purposes they will need to have relevant qualifications. Will they be able to pay bus driver wages? Plus, additional staff for help with disabled guest.

5, roads in the towers. Not ideal for a bus service especially at opening and closing times, those roads can be blocked.

6, fuel. Storage and a pump will be needed. This will need to be away from guests and locked. Assuming the electric ones will be beyond budget. Where on site can this go? Fuel itself is a cost.

7, parts. £££££££££££££.

At a guess, keeping the monorail going will be far more cost affective than the bus option. The system is already in place and they have experience of keeping it going. They have kept it going for 40 years. A bus will last you 5/6. Depending on the age.
 
Sorry if this has been asked, but did someone actually fall onto the tracks for Towers to be so worried about people on the platform? Having just been to EP where it's very much FAFO with health and safety on pretty much everything, and when you think how actual train stations run in this country, why aren't people trusted to get on a monorail without maiming or killing themselves? What has happened to personal responsibility?
 
I think the argument their end is that a theme park isn’t a normal environment and some people can get over excited which sometimes mean they leave their common sense in the car.

But I agree, if we’re capable of not walking onto tracks at Bristol Temple Meads then you’d think we could be trusted on the monorail too.

Heck, some of us can even cross roads without incident!
 
The secret is, you entirely can still be trusted. Nothing has actually changed about societal behaviour.

You might recall all the fun adverts from the 70s and 80s reminding people that it was dangerous to walk to railway tracks. If anything, maybe we're a little more savvy these days.

These sorts of changes are an unfortunate byproduct of late stage capitalism, where the profits of Merlin and their insurer must be protected at all costs.
 
Squiggs said:
The secret is, you entirely can still be trusted. Nothing has actually changed about societal behaviour.

You might recall all the fun adverts from the 70s and 80s reminding people that it was dangerous to walk to railway tracks. If anything, maybe we're a little more savvy these days.

These sorts of changes are an unfortunate byproduct of late stage capitalism, where the profits of Merlin and their insurer must be protected at all costs.
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That's true to an extent, except that we now have social media where some stupid people will do anything just for likes, clicks and views - and the riskier/more stupid the better. There have been reports over the years of the increased number incidents of people standing on unmanned level crossings (and even walking a few steps off them onto the track) just so they can get that unique picture for their Instagram. Granted there are staff on the monorail platform to keep an eye on things should someone have a similar idea with the monorail track, but they can't see everything all of the time.
 
Slugjc said:
Lets say the towers are to start uses buses.

1, will need a few. 3/4/5 max. Maybe more. Buses are not cheap pieces of kit. Even second hand, which is what they will buy.

2, storage. New shed will be needed to accommodate said buses.

3. On site mechanics will be needed. They will need a garage. They will need to be full time. Will need to be more than a couple available. Once those things go, they go. If they are all running, stood around not doing anything.

4, drivers. It's expensive to hire/train to be a bus driver. Even though it won't be on the national highways. I'm guessing for insurance purposes they will need to have relevant qualifications. Will they be able to pay bus driver wages? Plus, additional staff for help with disabled guest.

5, roads in the towers. Not ideal for a bus service especially at opening and closing times, those roads can be blocked.

6, fuel. Storage and a pump will be needed. This will need to be away from guests and locked. Assuming the electric ones will be beyond budget. Where on site can this go? Fuel itself is a cost.

7, parts. £££££££££££££.

At a guess, keeping the monorail going will be far more cost affective than the bus option. The system is already in place and they have experience of keeping it going. They have kept it going for 40 years. A bus will last you 5/6. Depending on the age.
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Cobus 3000 are rated for 25 years’ usage before the chassis degrades. They have electric versions now too but whether Merlin would bother paying for this type of thing is a whole other matter.

“Normal” buses I have no doubt would be cheaper but airport apron buses are designed to shift high volumes of people short distances so would be a far better replacement than a typical service bus
 
Here's a reason to not use EV buses. And it's at a theme park too. Admittedly, this was probably due to the extreme Floridian heat but based on what we've had this summer and could start getting in future summers, are EV buses in their current form something Towers would want to invest in given that in extreme heat they'd probably have to stop using them to keep them cool? The guy in the video even asks why Universal don't install a people mover/monorail as they're much safer!


From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HahhrLWZBKE
 
Steve74 said:
Here's a reason to not use EV buses. And it's at a theme park too. Admittedly, this was probably due to the extreme Floridian heat but based on what we've had this summer and could start getting in future summers, are EV buses in their current form something Towers would want to invest in given that in extreme heat they'd probably have to stop using them to keep them cool? The guy in the video even asks why Universal don't install a people mover/monorail as they're much safer!


From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HahhrLWZBKE
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Counterpoint to that Leeds among others have EV buses driving round everywhere and they don’t set on fire. Seen plenty of diesel engine overruns resulting in fires though.

That’s a whole other argument that will just never ever die especially on Facebook though..

My personal opinion is that the monorail should be kept unless they end up with some kind of issue with the concrete supports that mean it’s cost-prohibitive to maintain. It’s just something a little bit “different”.
 
Squiggs said:
These sorts of changes are an unfortunate byproduct of late stage capitalism, where the profits of Merlin and their insurer must be protected at all costs.
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Very much so. But since 2015, everything changed and they needed to be proactively looking to be increasing health and safety everywhere even at the detriment to slick operations.

Even nemesis stopping on the lift for 2 mins to retrieve a phone will gain multiple news articles of a “coaster at towers had guest STUCK 49 feet above the ground” etc

Any stoppage no matter how small will always gain a Smiler reference. If anything minor health and safety happened, they’d get absolutely grilled in the media.
 
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