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[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved

Matt N said:
Two examples I can think of in Europe are Disneyland Park in Paris and Blackpool Pleasure Beach between Valhalla and Icon (or between Infusion and Icon, if we’re counting that as major).

Granted, though, I don’t think it’s common. It only seems to be common in lower-end Six Flags/Cedar Fair parks (e.g. Michigan’s Adventure, Six Flags America), among the corporate park landscape.
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I don't think either of those are equivalent examples. BPB is not owned and backed by a multi-million pound mega corporation, and Disney is just in a completely different stratosphere altogether in terms of quality. Not to mention the multi-billion dollar expansion currently underway, which in itself likely exceeds the total spend on Towers in the last 20 years.
 
Alastair said:
I don't think either of those are equivalent examples. BPB is not owned and backed by a multi-million pound mega corporation, and Disney is just in a completely different stratosphere altogether in terms of quality. Not to mention the multi-billion dollar expansion currently underway, which in itself likely exceeds the total spend on Towers in the last 20 years.
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In fairness, you asked specifically for an example of a singular major park. You can't really move the goalposts, after setting them, because the example someone has provided is too major.
 
I think something big is now overdue at Towers, I just think the scope of what leadership wants it to be has changed.

First we had just Project Horizon planned and then supposedly scrapped when new leadership came in, with the assumption being that they wanted to make the scope bigger. Then we see the reshuffle and centralisation (cuts) at Merlin and now another set of leadership being brought in. The new VP would have had some oversight into the new areas coming to Chessington, and his relocation may possibly indicate that Merlin would want to do something similar with Alton Towers.

We just saw one of the credit agencies yesterday downgrade Merlin and list underinvestment as one of those reasons. There is scope to invest more heavily at Towers, it’s just been at the behest of internal issues/priorities within the wider company.
 
I myself will admit that I think they’d be fools to let the planning permission for Project Horizon lapse.

A 20m, 3,000+m2 building on a historically touchy plot of land seems like the best they could possibly ever hope for, and it’s likely one of the park’s only realistic opportunities to ever build an indoor coaster (probably the principal gap in the current coaster lineup). Even if they didn’t like the specific attraction that was originally proposed to go in there, I think they should keep the building and redesign the attraction inside rather than let the planning permission go to waste.

I think an indoor attraction of such scale would be brilliant for the park, and for that area. The area behind The Towers (or more specifically the area behind the fountain and Hex) has felt pretty lifeless for a number of years now, so a big indoor coaster, being probably the most exciting thing to be built back there this side of the millennium, would definitely reinvigorate that area, I feel.
 
Alastair said:
Name a major park that's gone decades without a major ride...
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DLP, Efteling, Phantasialand and BPB

But I’d argue for the first 3 because they installed quality over quantity, they didn’t need to. They maintained things, improved things and created mostly timeless attractions.

BPB however is more like a museum with attractions timeless for historical more than quality reasons.
 
Ash said:
DLP, Efteling, Phantasialand and BPB

But I’d argue for the first 3 because they installed quality over quantity, they didn’t need to. They maintained things, improved things and created mostly timeless attractions.

BPB however is more like a museum with attractions timeless for historical more than quality reasons.
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I’d also argue that Efteling and Phantasialand absolutely haven’t gone decades without a new major ride, though.

Efteling built the wonderfully received Danse Macabre only last year, Max & Moritz 5 years ago and the wonderfully received Symbolica 8 years ago. If I’m not wrong, they also have another project in the pipeline.

Granted, they’re currently in a slower spell, but Phantasialand built Rookburgh only 5 years ago and Klugheim 9 years ago, so their decade hasn’t exactly been devoid of major attractions either.
 
I do wonder secretly if Merlin are regretting rebuilding nemesis ….

In the eyes of the public it’s the same ride. From a marketing angle Horizon would have been way better
 
I’m sorry to be pedantic @Hid, but I would politely disagree with some of your cited examples.
Hid said:
Animal Kingdom
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Millions were invested into Pandora only 8 years ago and they’re currently planning an Indiana Jones dark ride and Encanto-themed area. I would deny that they’ve ever gone “decades” without a new major draw.
Hid said:
Universal Studios Florida
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Millions were invested into Diagon Alley only 11 years ago. Jimmy Fallon was built 8 years ago. Fast & Furious was built 7 years ago (underwhelming as they might be, Fallon and F&F are still major new attraction additions). They’ve currently got a huge new roller coaster under construction for 2027. I would deny that they’ve ever gone “decades” without a new major draw.
Hid said:
Heide Park
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Granted, Flug der Damonen was 11 years ago now, so the time is getting longer, but even still, I think 11 years is stretching the definition of “decades” plural if I’m being really pedantic.
Hid said:
Hansa Park
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Schwur des Karnan is 10 years old this year, they’ve got a pretty significant investment in Cornwall Coaster under construction for 2026, and I feel like I’m missing another decent-scale addition somewhere in between. I would deny that they’ve ever gone “decades” without a new major draw.
Hid said:
Brazilloan Park Washuzan Highland, Greenland several more
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Granted, this could be ignorance towards the Japanese theme park industry on my part, and I apologise if it is, but I would argue these are stretching the definition of “major” somewhat.

The best case studies of semi-major parks that have gone years without a significant new draw, as I previously mentioned, are some of the lower-end Six Flags and Cedar Fair parks, such as Six Flags America, La Ronde and Michigan’s Adventure. And with Six Flags America closing imminently, I would argue these parks only reinforce the notion that the majority of parks need semi-regular major draws to remain prosperous!

Outside of those, you mostly get into “smaller UK park territory”, inhabited by most UK parks that aren’t Merlin-owned, Blackpool, Paultons or Drayton. And I would deny that those are “major” parks on a worldwide scale. To look for parks that have genuinely gone “decades” without a major new draw, you’re looking at the likes of Pleasurewood Hills, which is not exactly a bastion of prosperity.
 
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Jb85 said:
I do wonder secretly if Merlin are regretting rebuilding nemesis ….

In the eyes of the public it’s the same ride. From a marketing angle Horizon would have been way better
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I think the decision to have ride refurbishments on Nemesis, Sub Terra, Skyride, Hex etc were the correct decisions to make, without them we would have seen the guest experience get exponentially worse at Towers, rather than the hit or miss style of experience we have today. Yeah we might have a new ride or two but the core of Alton Towers would have been hollowed out without them.

Originally the Nemesis retrack was going to be even more basic than the Hulk refurb, with just a retrack and nothing else. They were correct to update the theme and leverage the updated brand to improve guest experience and increase secondary spend opportunities.

Anything else they considered would have had a mixed response because of constant comparisons to Nemesis, meaning that the brand identity and guest experience wouldn’t have been nowhere near as resonant with visitors. Even if it was the Banshee-style alternative to Reborn, with the bigger, longer, faster layout expanding into the Blade pit.

With Wicker, Smiler and Reborn whatever coaster comes next needs just as strong of an identity to go with a strong ride experience. Not sure how they can do that if they consider another indoor coaster, however I think if they’re considering multiple large investments, one of them should be a new big statement ‘Alton Towers is Back’ coaster.
 
Rita is probably near the end of its life and there's always the question mark over The Smiler so the need to keep an eye on both of them could be a reason for not having any other big coaster plan in the works?

They were absolutely right to rebuild Nemesis and do something new with it, and refurbish Hex, bring NST back to life, etc and I don't think a new major coaster is a priority other than replacing Rita, as much as the indoor coaster would be a big boost to the lineup. Flats and other things to do have to come first really.

For me the SW thing is more about keeping it secret which is increasingly difficult to do but I can't see them stopping using it, they'll just do what they did with Wickerman and Smiler and just keep the final theme secret until the final wave of promo starts
 
Martin said:
there's always the question mark over The Smiler so the need to keep an eye on both of them could be a reason for not having any other big coaster plan in the works?
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I don't see many issues with the smiler from a maintenance and opps point of view.

it is rough because they have compounds of wheels and due to the smilers design has to have harder compounds to reduce the energy loss to reduce it could be the same roughness as Galactica interms of track but due to the train and wheel differences it makes the ride feel rougher.

only part which may be a problem is that second cobra roll inversion (inversion 12) where it jolts the train however that small section could be retracked and reprofiled to make it better or resolve the issue
Hid said:
There are Hydralic Launch Coasters older than Rita so can keep going on longer. All of them have had some sort of downtime Rita is no different.
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Yes, however these rides are very mechanically complex and thus often less reliable and more expensive than other coasters in addition intimin have not made these coasters for years, they are also quite bulky and have been getting removed from a lot of parks recently.

in addition rita has spent months out of action this season whilst I like the ride I would not be too suprised if it was gone soon (although they also have galactica which is also probably quite expensive to run / maintain)

I would also argue that oblivion may need some work soon to its station as it isn't in the best condition (holes in the floor, etc) not serious removal of ride but it could cost some money
 
Bert2theSpark said:
The new VP would have had some oversight into the new areas coming to Chessington, and his relocation may possibly indicate that Merlin would want to do something similar with Alton Towers.
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The new VP has only been at Chessington for a year so it’s doubtful he had much of any impact on the 2026 and 2027 additions.
Martin said:
Rita is probably near the end of its life and there's always the question mark over The Smiler so the need to keep an eye on both of them could be a reason for not having any other big coaster plan in the works?
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What question looms over The Smiler?
 
spotweld said:
If Gerstlauer would work with Merlin again. And from what we know, no. They wouldn't.

It's on a strict lifeline basically. Sorry. I'm sick. I hope I'm making sense.
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I have said this before, I don't know why people think Gerstlauer and merlin are sworn enemies due to the smiler incident, but I heavily doubt that is true for a number of reasons:

1: companies don't hate other companies people within the companies do, and there is going to have been hirings / losses at both merlin and Gerstlauer and chances are a lot of the people who may have not like the company have moved on, in addition it has been over a decade at this point and people will have moved on

2: basic business sense why would Gerstlauer not want merlin to give them money to work on a project they would be leaving money on the table, if merlin wanted to work with Gerstlauer they would be stupid not to get millions of euros for what ever project merlin wanted

3: it would destroy Gerstlauer if they were the ones refusing to work with merlin. this may sound odd, but you have to consider a coaster is tens of (even hundreds of now a days) millions of pounds, when buying a coaster a park dosn't just have to consider price and returns they have to consider support, if they buy a coaster and then an incident occurs and the manufacture refuses to work with them to retrack, work on projects, etc then you could lose millions of pounds as coasters may have to close early, projects get changed, or other companies have to come in a certify that ride it could become much worse if you have multiple of that manufactures rides this would probably lead people to want to buy other manufactures rides as if something happens and they get in the bad books with that manufacture there is a big risk of loosing lots of money.

there are reasons why intamin, RMC, etc still supports their rides at cedar fair despite cedar fair refusing to work with them

Hid said:
Formula Rossa and Xcelarator had multiple months of downtime to and still are about
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so did TTD, and king da ka

it is a dying type of ride with plenty being closed in recent years due to high maintenance costs and older hardware one hasn't been built since 2010, and 6/15 rides which used the accelerator hydraulic launch have been SBNO, removed or converted to LSM I wasn't trying to say it would be going this season, more that I can't see it lasting that long at the park
 
spotweld said:
If Gerstlauer would work with Merlin again. And from what we know, no. They wouldn't.

It's on a strict lifeline basically. Sorry. I'm sick. I hope I'm making sense.
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Gerstlauer will still provide support for their hardware. It’s how the industry works.

I am still unsure as to what you meant by your comment. It sounds as though you’re implying it could be going soon which I doubt is the case.
 
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