Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

[Bowser]

How do the parks do that though? What defines "more accessible" in this regard?

Think its hard to solve as my side is dealing with a physical disability so what works for us doesn't work for all.

Besides when they do make things a bit more accessible (like the Duel tilted room removal) everyone else gets whingey about it.

Main thing is reduced queue times through improved operations, availability and capacity. I’ve praised the European parks we’ve visited where we don’t need to use RAP (and Paultons qualify here) because you’re rarely queuing for more than 20 minutes.

I think we’d see a massive reduction in RAP usage if that was the case at Merlin parks but obviously that’s unlikely. It’s the crux of what RAP is, people unable to queue for long periods and despite protestations on here Merlin parks at peak times commonly face 60+ minute queues for multiple major attractions.

Other than that various small changes such as making queues lines wheelchair accessible, remove fast track and virtual queue options.

As ever I’d be remiss for not praising Merlin for offering more in terms of accessibility than most European parks… or attempting to anyway.

 

[popey85]

Are alton towers likely to release more rap slots for next year went to try and pre book a visit for next year my daughter loves the cbeebies area as she hasn't reached 1.2 yet and its showing 0 weekends available until 14th June i have tried asking the park but had 0 response really struggling to have a reason to keep our passes

 

[Skyscraper]

Are alton towers likely to release more rap slots for next year went to try and pre book a visit for next year my daughter loves the cbeebies area as she hasn't reached 1.2 yet and its showing 0 weekends available until 14th June i have tried asking the park but had 0 response really struggling to have a reason to keep our passes

Only thing I can suggest is keep checking, in case of cancellations.

 

[Benzin]

Genuinely baffling that the dates were even available to book let alone fully booked for every single weekend until June.

Disgraceful no matter how it's sliced.

 

[Bowser]

Are alton towers likely to release more rap slots for next year went to try and pre book a visit for next year my daughter loves the cbeebies area as she hasn't reached 1.2 yet and its showing 0 weekends available until 14th June i have tried asking the park but had 0 response really struggling to have a reason to keep our passes

Can’t guarantee it but based on past history they will release more slots. Unfortunately that means checking pretty much every day.

 

[BarryZola]

They shouldn't be releasing any RAP slots until nearer the new season. It's ridiculous. If the reason is because people booking the hotel way in advance need to book their slots early then they should introduce a system where you get a guaranteed RAP when booking a hotel stay (it would be good for hotel bookings too I expect).

 

[Matt N]

They should really integrate the booking systems together, at very least.

I do find it surprising that you can’t book a day ticket or a hotel stay and see RAP availability for that day. The fact that the systems seemingly don’t talk to each other does seem like an unnecessary additional frustration for RAP users.

 

[Bowser]

They shouldn't be releasing any RAP slots until nearer the new season. It's ridiculous. If the reason is because people booking the hotel way in advance need to book their slots early then they should introduce a system where you get a guaranteed RAP when booking a hotel stay (it would be good for hotel bookings too I expect).

Considering how difficult it is already to get a slot that would make it virtually impossible for non hotel guests to obtain one and would be ethically rather poor.

 

[Dave]

Hard to say what all the differences are without actually using it but from what is being said it seems:

- The existing one you can log in without having to visit guest services, which is a big plus considering the queues and locations. Unclear if the AT version only applies to initial visit.

- The existing one you select your ride within the app rather than having to physically visit the attraction entrance to join the "virtual queue". Again this is unclear from the explanation but seems particularly problematic at a park the size of AT. People have mobility issues. Facilities are limited in some areas. If you have a 90 minute time out for example then you might need the sensory room but have to spend 30 minutes trekking in the opposite direction if you want to join a queue first? It's going to add a lot more planning to some peoples visits and result in a sizeable decrease in the number of attractions they can use in a day.

Facilitating ride closures and additional queue times are excellent new features though, as is the digital identification.

I expect some people will argue it's unfair under the existing system that "travel" time between rides is included in the time out but personally i think this is a reasonable accommodation for people who typically spend most of their lives facing disadvantages and obviously not something that could realistically only be allocated to specific RAP users.

As you point out, the fact it features basic grammatical errors doesn't inspire confidence that RAP users have been adequately consulted but hopefully this testing and feedback phase irons things out.

Just to weigh in on the scan at attraction entrance to start the rap clock, many people praise the Disney RAP which unless recently changed has the same requirement and I would argue is the reason it works.

The problem with old RAP is effectively all RAP guests are able to effectively queue 100% of their time in the park, this is why RAP queues became unmanageable and impacted both RAP and non-RAP users. The current solution is to limit the number of RAP guests on park which has knock on issues for access.

Just looking at it in a cold numbers way you can have greater access to visiting the park but some throttling back of the number of rides a RAP user can get through on a given day OR no throttling back of ride access but limits to the number of RAP guests on park, you can’t have both. Requiring some travel time between queuing forces this throttling back and it’s why Disneys RAP functions well,

I know ideally with all the other obstacles life throws at people with disabilities you don’t really want to do either but the parks have a finite guest per hour capacity and no matter how you cut it you have to manage that. If they get the access pass working well on park they should be able to increase the number of RAP tickets which I suspect is what they are after.

 

[Bowser]

Just to weigh in on the scan at attraction entrance to start the rap clock, many people praise the Disney RAP which unless recently changed has the same requirement and I would argue is the reason it works.

The problem with old RAP is effectively all RAP guests are able to effectively queue 100% of their time in the park, this is why RAP queues became unmanageable and impacted both RAP and non-RAP users. The current solution is to limit the number of RAP guests on park which has knock on issues for access.

Just looking at it in a cold numbers way you can have greater access to visiting the park but some throttling back of the number of rides a RAP user can get through on a given day OR no throttling back of ride access but limits to the number of RAP guests on park, you can’t have both. Requiring some travel time between queuing forces this throttling back and it’s why Disneys RAP functions well,

I know ideally with all the other obstacles life throws at people with disabilities you don’t really want to do either but the parks have a finite guest per hour capacity and no matter how you cut it you have to manage that. If they get the access pass working well on park they should be able to increase the number of RAP tickets which I suspect is what they are after.

I've only been to Disneyland Paris but their RAP doesn't work like this. There's no clock or time out, you just use the designated attraction entrance at any time, as many times as you want. It works because their combined attraction capacity and reliability absolutely dwarfs anything offered at the Merlin parks (dishonourable exclusion for Crush's Coaster). It's been this way for many years as far as i know.

Much like say Paultons i expect the price point/demographic of DLP also acts as an organic capacity limit, whilst the MAP achieves the opposite.

The US parks might be different as i imagine they have a much higher uptake of RAP usage.

 

[Skyscraper]

I've only been to Disneyland Paris but their RAP doesn't work like this. There's no clock or time out, you just use the designated attraction entrance at any time, as many times as you want. It works because their combined attraction capacity and reliability absolutely dwarfs anything offered at the Merlin parks (dishonourable exclusion for Crush's Coaster). It's been this way for many years as far as i know.

Much like say Paultons i expect the price point/demographic of DLP also acts as an organic capacity limit, whilst the MAP achieves the opposite.

The US parks might be different as i imagine they have a much higher uptake of RAP usage.

My best friend has been at Universal Orlando this week, and has been using their RAP equivalent. I think there are different types, but the one they were given allows immediate access via the Express entrance if the main queue is less than 30 minutes, and if it's more than 30 minutes you receive a return time. You can enter other attractions that are under 30 mins whilst waiting for your return time to come up as well. It works probably because everyone is split between four different parks though.

 

[BarryZola]

Considering how difficult it is already to get a slot that would make it virtually impossible for non hotel guests to obtain one and would be ethically rather poor.

Do you know the ratio of hotel guests on average on any given day that have to use a RAP pass compared with the usual daily allocation? That's the only way you could draw that conclusion.

 

[Dave]

I've only been to Disneyland Paris but their RAP doesn't work like this. There's no clock or time out, you just use the designated attraction entrance at any time, as many times as you want. It works because their combined attraction capacity and reliability absolutely dwarfs anything offered at the Merlin parks (dishonourable exclusion for Crush's Coaster). It's been this way for many years as far as i know.

Much like say Paultons i expect the price point/demographic of DLP also acts as an organic capacity limit, whilst the MAP achieves the opposite.

The US parks might be different as i imagine they have a much higher uptake of RAP usage.

Never done Paris RAP, in Florida you go to the ride entrance and get a return time and the rides there have equal if not better capacity than Paris.

However, US disability access rules are as strict if not stricter than the UK. At the moment in mainland Europe a lot of disabilities that would qualify you for RAP in the UK and USA wouldn’t in Europe (or at least culturally people with those disabilities don’t request RAP rightly or wrongly).

 

[Bowser]

Do you know the ratio of hotel guests on average on any given day that have to use a RAP pass compared with the usual daily allocation? That's the only way you could draw that conclusion.

The current average isn’t relevant, you’re changing the parameters by advertising that hotel guests get guaranteed RAP so uptake will increase and capacity will need to reflect the guarantee.

People could buy cheap hotel rooms and not even use them to get a RAP slot that will be much cheaper than FT.

 

[Skyscraper]

People could buy cheap hotel rooms and not even use them to get a RAP slot that will be much cheaper than FT.

That's a very good point... One way around it would be to require overnight guests to show their hotel booking confirmation when collecting their RAP timecard.

 

[BarryZola]

The current average isn’t relevant, you’re changing the parameters by advertising that hotel guests get guaranteed RAP so uptake will increase and capacity will need to reflect the guarantee.

People could buy cheap hotel rooms and not even use them to get a RAP slot that will be much cheaper than FT.

I think it does have some relevancy to give you a general idea of where it's at currently before deciding to implement a change or not. Also, RAP isn't as good as fast-track so the number of people willing to pay for hotel rooms just to get a RAP booking I would guess would be negligible. You will obviously disagree, and that's fine, because neither of us know for sure.

 

[Matt N]

I do think people wholly blaming Merlin for the saga around RAP is perhaps unfair.

I don’t deny that they definitely haven’t helped themselves over the years in some regards, but I also think part of why Merlin has high usage compared to parks in Europe is because of the UK being ahead of some European countries in terms of accessibility, particularly with regard to neurodiversity.

Some major parks in Europe are probably able to provide a less heavily used RAP experience by virtue of less guests having things like neurodiversity diagnoses and their accessibility efforts being less stringent than Merlin’s by virtue of a differing national culture and laws around disability. I know some European countries do have quite a “put up and shut up” attitude towards this type of thing that the UK doesn’t, which will definitely manifest in the parks’ RAP offering (or lack of in some cases).

With regard to why other parks in the UK don’t suffer; I think profile and lower visitation probably help. The independent parks in this country aren’t as well known and also aren’t as heavily visited.

I don’t think queues are the sole cause that some claim they are either. As an example, the Disney and Universal parks in America, despite their price point, frequently get absolutely heaving during peak periods, with queues of well over an hour for all major rides, and those parks do not suffer from RAP issues like Merlin seem to. Granted, Disney and Universal (or Disney at very least) have spent considerable money aiming to rectify RAP issues and have very stringent eligibility requirements, but other parks known for long queues at peak times, such as PortAventura, also don’t seem to have a documented RAP issue in the way that the Merlin parks do.

I think the issues are incredibly multifaceted and can’t be blamed on one individual factor.

 

[Bowser]

That's a very good point... One way around it would be to require overnight guests to show their hotel booking confirmation when collecting their RAP timecard.

Actually i meant booking the room and not even staying in it, just as a means to get RAP for 4 people for say £150 versus 4 FT which would likely be significantly more. Yes RAP isn't the same as FT but for those who can't visit the park without it often the only option would be to purchase FT if RAP is unavailable. This likely wouldn't be a massive amount of people but it would still eat into the capacity. If the park were to offer a "guaranteed" access to RAP slots they need to guarantee they have capacity, something they already struggle with so it would be a dangerous policy imo. Plus you would also have wasted slots that were being held for unsold rooms each day though they could release them the day before.

Coincidentally i noticed Europa Park guarantee access to tickets when you book a hotel room, which whilst not the same is an example of a park that has the capacity to comfortably deliver on a promise.

I think the issues are incredibly multifaceted and can’t be blamed on one individual factor.

I do agree and i don't think queues are the "sole" reason but i still believe they are the primary one. You said the independent parks in the UK are less visited but that would suggest it's a self fulfilling prophecy and if they did have the queues of the Merlin parks they would face the same problems, what with the criteria for eligibility being universal in the UK. I expect slots at Paultons will be more difficult to obtain in the opening period of Valgard and perhaps longer so that will be interesting to see.

Whilst the other issues you mention are all valid, i firmly believe that if Merlin parks regularly operated with major attractions that offered maximum 20-30 minute queues then RAP uptake would be much lower.

 

[Burner]

Guaranteeing a RAP for hotel guests, would effectively be putting the system behind a paywall, which would cause an even bigger outcry.

Whatever you think of the current system, reasonable adjustments shouldn’t have a price point, and income shouldn’t give someone an unfair advantage.

 

[Bowser]

I expect slots at Paultons will be more difficult to obtain in the opening period of Valgard and perhaps longer so that will be interesting to see.

Actually upon further thought i'm less inclined to think this will happen. From my understanding Paultons business model prioritises customer experience and beyond opening period fanfare they seem determined to operate a park that doesn't have long queues. In fact it's a prominent feature of their advertising and as a result means fewer people require RAP.

That does further reinforce my opinion that queue times are the primary factor. Merlin are happy to cram their parks full regardless of whether it means the majority of big attractions are on 60+ minute queues as they simply profiteer via Fast Track. Just look at the Halloween events, it's part of their business model.