Chessington World of Adventures Resort

[Bowser]

I don’t actually agree with you on this. I went to Efteling expecting Joris to be open as it was above 5 degrees and sunny, and all the other coasters were open, yet Joris was closed due to ice on the track, presumably as it’s more shaded.

Thats ok, we don’t have to agree!

Did it not open at all or it opened late? The latter is fine and understandable. I’d be surprised if it didn’t open at all in those conditions as it has done in much less, which suggests could be another reason.

Presumably the rest of the rides did open so that’s less problematic, it’s only an issue if like Chessington you’re only offering a couple of major attractions in the first place.

Similarly at Europa this past few days we’ve seen the water rides close presumably due to cold conditions.

I don’t think many people would reasonably expect water rides to operate in freezing conditions.

Thorpe Park advertise their coasters as open all season but they frequently have to close due to the wind.

Yes but as I’ve said they advertise the tolerances for this and day trippers at least can plan accordingly.

 

[rob666]

Weren't we talking about Chessington (some time ago!)?

People in the UK...as in not European mainland... do indoor stuff in winter, not theme parks, because of the wet, wind, and cold.

It really doesn't matter about midwinter operating temperatures...it is simply not economically viable to open in winter.
Not enough paying punters around...the nation is not rock solid thoosie, not at all.
Simple as that.
If it was economic...come on...Merlin.
It would be happening.

If 80% of your winter visitors are season pass holders...there is simply no money in it.

 

[Bowser]

Weren't we talking about Chessington (some time ago!)?

People in the UK...as in not European mainland... do indoor stuff in winter, not theme parks, because of the wet, wind, and cold.

It really doesn't matter about midwinter operating temperatures...it is simply not economically viable to open in winter.
Not enough paying punters around...the nation is not rock solid thoosie, not at all.
Simple as that.
If it was economic...come on...Merlin.
It would be happening.

If 80% of your winter visitors are season pass holders...there is simply no money in it.

Disagree here my friend.

People in the UK do plenty of outdoor winter activities, including enthusiast tangent events like Winter Wonderland. December is often mild and sunny.

The theme parks here year on year are increasingly opening up. Chessington keep expanding their line up and I’ve no doubt Minecraft will be their most weather resilient coaster yet. Paultons have offered a full line up all winter. Drayton have had their largest offering yet. It’s very much a long term philosophy of creating an audience and almost all the parks seem to be onboard. Not to mention the inevitable 365 operations at Universal.

Mainland Europe in places has much harsher winter conditions yet places like Germany and Sweden keep their parks operational. It’s one of the most popular times of the year now for many parks and you can be sure that’s something they’d like to imitate here.

Chessington (and more so Legoland) are in the best positions to achieve this.

 

[rob666]

You are still looking from the thoosie perspective.
Mainland Europe is a distant market...generally dry continental cold.
December here is rarely mild and sunny, it is either mild and wet, or dry and cold.
Winter fairs/markets and such are usually for a couple of hours...not whole days.
Lots of parks over lots of years have tried winter expansion...not just the holidays...but none have pulled it off.
Economically, it is only worth opening in the school holidays, in the south.
So I will concede the Merlin family parks in the south...but they will be 80% pass holders.

The sad days I have spent on the Beach over the years when they have tried!

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Disagree here my friend.

People in the UK do plenty of outdoor winter activities, including enthusiast tangent events like Winter Wonderland. December is often mild and sunny.

I think comparing a regional theme park to Winter Wonderland is a bit of a false equivalence. Winter Wonderland is primarily a social drinking and eating event, located in one of the most densely populated and accessible cities on earth. People go there to be seen, to drink overpriced mulled wine, and to eat churros. The rides are secondary revenue streams, essentially incidental to the "vibe".

People aren't driving 90 minutes to a muddy field in Surrey or Staffordshire in mid-January for a "vibe", especially when the F&B offering is... well, we all know what the F&B offering is.

Mainland Europe in places has much harsher winter conditions yet places like Germany and Sweden keep their parks operational. It’s one of the most popular times of the year now for many parks and you can be sure that’s something they’d like to imitate here.

Chessington (and more so Legoland) are in the best positions to achieve this.

This is true, but there is a nuance in the meteorology. Continental winters are often colder, yes, but they are often drier and less windy. The UK suffers from a specific type of miserable, penetrating dampness combined with high winds that makes operating large coasters particularly difficult (and visiting them particularly unpleasant).

Parks like Efteling and Phantasialand have spent decades investing in infrastructure specifically designed to mitigate this, indoor queues, dark rides, high capacity indoor catering, and extensive heating. Merlin's parks are largely rides and coasters on concrete slabs, or in fields, and generally always exposed to the elements.

Weren't we talking about Chessington (some time ago!)?

People in the UK...as in not European mainland... do indoor stuff in winter, not theme parks, because of the wet, wind, and cold.

It really doesn't matter about midwinter operating temperatures...it is simply not economically viable to open in winter.
Not enough paying punters around...the nation is not rock solid thoosie, not at all.
Simple as that.
If it was economic...come on...Merlin.
It would be happening.

If 80% of your winter visitors are season pass holders...there is simply no money in it.

This hits the nail on the head. Paultons can afford to open for Christmas because they do not discount. Every person walking through the Peppa Pig archway in December has paid a premium for the privilege, or has a pass that wasn't sold for the price of a Tesco shop. That gate receipt covers the electricity bill and the staffing costs.

If Merlin opens a park in winter, the majority of guests are MAP holders. They have already paid their entry fee months ago. Unless Merlin can extract significant secondary spend from them (which, given the current Aramark situation, is becoming increasingly difficult), opening the park is essentially a loss leading exercise in goodwill. And we know how much private equity firms love those.

Universal will likely operate 364, but that is because they will build a park designed for it from day one, likely with significant indoor elements, and a pricing model that doesn't rely on giving the product away for free on the side of a Carex bottle.

 

[Bowser]

The sad days I have spent on the Beach over the years when they have tried!

Oh I agree Blackpool and AT are not viable. But I think Chessington will continue to expand their winter offering. There were already rumours Vampire was due to be open until the Halloween maintenance issue.

 

[owenstreet7]

The theme parks here year on year are increasingly opening up. Chessington keep expanding their line up and I’ve no doubt Minecraft will be their most weather resilient coaster yet. Paultons have offered a full line up all winter. Drayton have had their largest offering yet. It’s very much a long term philosophy of creating an audience and almost all the parks seem to be onboard. Not to mention the inevitable 365 operations at Universal.

With Minecraft, I think with the winds, the section on the outside may be what could let it down

There were already rumours Vampire was due to be open until the Halloween maintenance issue.

Vampire was originally advertised for Winter's Tail until the maintenance issues came up.

 

[jon81uk]

Oh I agree Blackpool and AT are not viable. But I think Chessington will continue to expand their winter offering. There were already rumours Vampire was due to be open until the Halloween maintenance issue.

I still don't see significant January opening. I think the autumn opening will expand and Christmas will keep getting bigger. Then close down after the kids go back to school and re-open for half-term at the end of Feb.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

This is the thing. Chessington have tried doing January and February openings for years but they never seem to achieve much success past the Zoo only days.

A company like Merlin requires instant results. If they do Jan-Feb openings, they want instant success, but these things take time to develop, particularly since the majority of the British public expect the parks to be closed in the winter.

Even Europa Park, who now have a massive winter event, didn’t always have it this way. I visited Europa Christmas 2006, and I kind you not, virtually all the coasters were closed and this was planned, advertised closures. Europa’s winter event has grown organically over the past 20 years and become very successful. But that’s a family run business, Merlin need instant results to justify winter openings, so have always tread with caution.

 

[Hid]

Personally I think Chessington World of Adventures, Paulton's Park, Legoland Windsor and Drayton Manor are going to be the main winter offerings throughout the UK for time being. Towers may open up some more of their indoor rides and coasters but those a realistically the main 5. Don't think seaside parks should open in winter as those places are really seasonal destinations. Thorpe Park may also be out of the winter offering to due to how exposed their rides are to the elements.

Its worth noting all these parks do have to do maintenance on the rides at some point and even this years winter offering none have their full ride line-ups.

 

[Bowser]

To clarify, I haven’t been proposing term time winter openings in January or February. Very few parks anywhere in Europe or the US do that outside of Disney and Universal.

I’ve not been proposing anything tbh, just discussing the Christmas offerings and inconsistent temperature related operations. It does seem clear to me parks are increasingly offering larger winter selections, I’m surprised so many people disagree but that’s the joy of discussion!

Its worth noting all these parks do have to do maintenance on the rides at some point and even this years winter offering none have their full ride line-ups

Paultons have virtually a full ride offering except water rides.

Legoland used to (again except water rides), this is their first winter in many years without.

 

[jon81uk]

I’ve not been proposing anything tbh, just discussing the Christmas offerings and inconsistent temperature related operations. It does seem clear to me parks are increasingly offering larger winter selections, I’m surprised so many people disagree but that’s the joy of discussion!

I think its the use of the word Winter that makes me thing of Jan/Feb. November isn't Winter and December not really either. I'd just describe it as Christmas opening in that period. I agree that Chessington should have a larger Christmas offering and the weather in November/December is conducive to that. But now we are into January the temperature has dropped significantly. Even Feb half term can be difficult if the weather is poor.

 

[Hid]

Paultons have virtually a full ride offering except water rides.

No waters rides but also no Cobra (Raven) or Edge so not a full lineup

 

[Bowser]

No waters rides but also no Cobra (Raven) or Edge so not a full lineup

I think we both know why those rides aren’t operating and they almost certainly will be next year so rather disingenuous pedantry.