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The Swarm: Brave it Backwards

S

Secret Weapon

TS Member
Apologies for creating an entirely new thread just for this, but I'm not sure where else to post it (besides the general Thorpe Park thread?).

I never got to ride The Swarm when it featured backward-facing rows, so I had a few questions that I was hoping that the forum members might be able to help me with:-

1) How did the queueing system work for 'Brave it Backwards'? Did riders join the same initial queue as the front-facing queue and then split at some point, or was there an entirely different entrance? Looking at some of the POV videos on YouTube, it seems that there might be people queuing in what is now the exit area (e.g. youtube.com/watch?v=cYU8BTQ4-o4), so was this used as the entrance for the backwards rows? I am struggling to visualise how this worked, because The Swarm is unusual due to having separate queues for the left and right sides, so how were riders funnelled to both sides of the track? It also doesn't help that the exit section is at the front of the train rather than the rear...

I can see another photograph online in which the staircase on the far (left) side seems to be split into backwards and forwards sections (themeparkguide.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/tpg_copyright_photos/public/2019-02/dscn0307.jpg), but I am unsure how people would have entered into the backwards section to begin with?

2) How did the on-screen photography work for the backwards rows? Was there a second camera (facing the opposite direction) which took the photographs for these rows? Or were photographs unavailable for these rows? Or did the regular front-facing camera simply take photographs of the backs of people's heads (similar to riders of Enso at Blackpool Pleasure Beach)?

3) Does anybody know why the backwards-facing rows were turned forwards again in 2016? I have heard some people say that it was due to low demand and/or the logistical difficulty of featuring multiple queues (hence why some single-rider queues were removed around the same time?), but other people said that the 'real' reason was due to concerns following the Smiler crash in 2015 that riders' legs at the rear would be completely exposed and vulnerable if there was ever another collision?

4) Was it a fun experience, and were people disappointed when it was removed? Some people said that the backwards rows were worse because of the inability to see the 'near-miss' elements approaching, but - personally - these don't have much of an effect on me anyway (especially after having ridden it once) because I never sense that they pose any real danger.

Apologies for the long questions, and many thanks in advance for any help that anybody can provide!

(P.S. Not a question, but just a comment: according to "Making Thorpe Park", the reason why the backwards rows were introduced in the first place was because Merlin was disappointed that The Swarm had failed to attract enough new visitors in 2012, and so - according to John Wardley - Merlin made the 'desperate' decision to introduce backwards-facing rows in 2013)
 
I think the queue near the exit you see is the dreaded extended part of the main queue. From what I can remember, and I may be remembering things incorrectly, you entered at the main entrance. I think one of the queue lines (probably the current RAP one) was designated for backwards, which got you to the merge point where you were handed a ticket (see the "ticket holders only" signs), then you went in the main queue within the station, sticking to the left (or right) hand side of the path to access the backwards rows (as per the photo of the stairs you linked)

I don't particularly remember the tickets, I think they dropped using them at some point and you just went in the main queue and picked your row. Or maybe this was just on quiet days, and peak days kept the separate queue and ticket thing. Again very fuzzy memory of this.

I did like the backwards rows as it provided a different experience, however the ride is designed around near-miss set pieces, which don't really work that well when you are not facing forwards.
 
From what I remembered, we queued in the main queue and then opted for the back row to ride backwards.

I don't think there was a separate queue or paid ticket for it - similar to Mandrill Mayhem nowadays.
 
When it first opened there was a separate queue for the backwards rows, I'm pretty sure this predated RAP in its current form and the ride had only opened with main and fastrack entrances with wheelchair users using the exit to get to baggage. They had to butcher the main queue to make room for the backwards queue, permanently closing part of the section of queue in front of the station along with the dedicated front row queue prior to merge. If you used the queue for brave it backwards you'd be given a ticket at merge which you'd then hand to the batching host inside the station. In theory this made for a very slow moving queue but in reality no-one really cared about it and it was often shorter than main queue, essentially making it free fastrack.

The ticket system wasn't a new concept on the ride, the old front row queue worked the same way. Both systems seemed to work on the assumption that there wasn't enough space in the station to let people choose immediately prior to boarding but they eventually realised the system they'd created was needlessly complicated. By scrapping it, they could remove the need for 2 batching staff so the separate "brave it backwards" entrance closed and you could just choose your row (and direction of travel) once in the station.

There is still a "brave it backwards" sign above the door into the ride workshop. It's not normally in guest view but I think it can be seen from the path to Survival Games
 
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Thanks for the replies. I think I was getting a bit confused by some of the videos on YouTube, as Theme Park Worldwide's video seems to show an entirely separate entrance (youtu.be/87RNxZOOHNc?t=15 at the 15-second mark, and a notice-board at the 20-second mark), and another video has a photograph of the old queue board (youtu.be/C4OjcCzw6fg?t=300 at the 5-minute mark), which shows separate queue times for the front and back sections - although this doesn't necessarily indicate two separate entrances.

I'd imagine that the queue for the backwards section on the right-side of the track might have been quite cramped if it had been split into two!

I haven't been able to find any images of the on-ride photography for the back rows, although Theme Park Worldwide's video seems to show two flashes (youtu.be/87RNxZOOHNc?t=70 around the 1:10 mark), so maybe one was for the front rows, and the other was for the back rows? I think that I can only see one camera, though, so maybe it was simply for different sections of the train (I'm not sure)
 
- as said, it was a separate queue until merge/baggage point at where a ticket was issued to ride those seats once in the station.

- I can't recall what they did with the photos, as I don't remeber them there's a chance they didn't take any?

- I don't know that the reason for turning them back was ever given by the park, but it 100% had nothing to do with any concerns about a collision. The ride is completely designed not to collide, not for damage limitation if it does! In any case, seats facing front or back the ride would contact at the train body at the tracks not the seats.
IIRC it was always going to be a limited time change amd was promoted as such on opening. I guess the ticketing faff fed into that decision. I think there was also an issue of noone wanting the second to back row after waiting extra time so it was hitting capacity overall when those seats went empty. As always with these things I don't think there was 'a' reason, it was just the best thing to do taking everything into consideration.

- as for the ride experience, as always it's subjective. For me the backwards seats felt inexplicably forceless. The physics don't make sense to me as to why that would be the case, but there you go, it's what I felt. Forwards I find the back seats really quite intense, especially the station flyover, possibly the most intense (although unsustained) coaster moment in the country, backwards it was a nothing.
Overall I'm glad to have tried it, but I'm more glad that back seat is back to its best again.
 
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Sorry to bump an old thread, but somebody on Reddit asked the same question a few months ago (specifically, why Brave it Backwards was removed in 2016), and one additional theory is that perhaps Merlin were worried that evacuating backwards-facing passengers from the lift hill in case of an emergency may be difficult or uncomfortable (e.g. due to the riders having no head-rest).

I'm not sure how true this is, though, given that Thorpe Park had other backwards-facing rides in the past (e.g. X:\No Way Out), and Merlin later added backwards facing seats to Jumanji at Chessington (although I don't think this has a lift hill as such), so take it for what it's worth!


From: https://www.reddit.com/r/ThorpePark/comments/1mi6j9r/brave_it_backwards/
 
Secret Weapon said:
Sorry to bump an old thread, but somebody on Reddit asked the same question a few months ago (specifically, why Brave it Backwards was removed in 2016), and one additional theory is that perhaps Merlin were worried that evacuating backwards-facing passengers from the lift hill in case of an emergency may be difficult or uncomfortable (e.g. due to the riders having no head-rest).

I'm not sure how true this is, though, given that Thorpe Park had other backwards-facing rides in the past (e.g. X:\No Way Out), and Merlin later added backwards facing seats to Jumanji at Chessington (although I don't think this has a lift hill as such), so take it for what it's worth!


From: https://www.reddit.com/r/ThorpePark/comments/1mi6j9r/brave_it_backwards/
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Remember how your school teachers used to warn you that you couldn't trust anything you read on Wikipedia because anyone in the world could edit it?

Imagine what they would have to say about the cesspit that is Reddit; essentially a digital wall in a public toilet where people scrawl their guesses in permanent marker and call it "insider knowledge".

The theory regarding lift hill evacuations is nonsense. B&M engineered the backward facing chassis modifications themselves. I don't need to gooseplain their safety record, but they don't bolt things onto a train that can't be safely evacuated. If a train stops on a lift hill, the restraint unlocks and the guest stands up. The direction they are facing is largely immaterial to the physics of stepping onto a catwalk.

The reason "Brave it Backwards" was scrapped wasn't safety; it was because it was an operational pain in the caboose.

When you dedicate only the back two rows (8 seats) of a 28 seat train to a specific experience, you create a capacity bottleneck. The queue for those specific seats moved at a glacial pace, clogging up the station air gates and causing endless headaches for the batching staff. Guests would queue for the main ride, get to the station, see the backwards rows, demand to ride them, be told the queue was full, and then argue.

It killed the throughput and confused the casual visitor.

Merlin likes efficiency (usually). Dedicating 28% of a train's capacity to a gimmick which slowed down the dispatch interval was never going to last long.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
It killed the throughput and confused the casual visitor.

Merlin likes efficiency (usually). Dedicating 28% of a train's capacity to a gimmick which slowed down the dispatch interval was never going to last long.
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Fair enough!

Maybe they could have kept the backwards seats, but not had a dedicated queue for it?

The Swarm is one of the few Merlin rollercoasters where, even now, guests are allowed to choose where they sit, and so guests could have simply chosen the backwards seats if they wanted them, and sat somewhere else if not.

I haven't been to Chessington and so I'm not sure how the backwards seats on Jumanji work (e.g. whether there is a dedicated queue or not).

P.S. If it was up to me, I would have chosen backwards seats for Oblivion and Saw, as these would probably have the most dramatic effect due to the vertical drops and lifts, etc.
 
The back row already gets clogged and the staff have to shout people down the train, imagine that but with also people hanging around for the backwards row.

Backwards was also inferior to forwards, so I'm glad it went.
 
I never saw an evacuation from the backwards rows but the concept always concerned me - the seating was high enough that you essentially have to launch yourself out, facing uphill that's not much of an issue as the stairs rise to meet you but it could be a long way down when facing backwards. Presumably they'd have something in place to manage the risk but I was never sure what.

There are often unexpected secondary effects when making modifications, some more serious than others. When they first put in the backwards rows in Swarm they got nuisance e-stops due to people walking through a light-beam sensor at the back of the station - previously the seating arrangement gave people no reason to be there but with the seat facing the other way people went further towards the ride area. They ended up moving the sensors further back to try to stop it

Secret Weapon said:
Maybe they could have kept the backwards seats, but not had a dedicated queue for it?
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The dedicated queue for the backwards seats was scrapped towards the end, you were free to choose once you got to the station
 
Poisson said:
The back row already gets clogged and the staff have to shout people down the train, imagine that but with also people hanging around for the backwards row.

Backwards was also inferior to forwards, so I'm glad it went.
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The Swarm honestly has the worst batching.

There was no way it'd cope without assigned seating and it seriously needs it as it is.
 
I did brave it backwards in 2013 I think and the absolute worst bit for me was going up the lift hill with all your weight on your front and nothing to brace your feet against... don't remember the queue being particularly horrific or having tickets or anything like that, but do remember the lift hill feeling like it took eons. Never stopped for a moment to consider what would happen during evac.
 
Bowser said:
They work very well and have zero negative impact on throughput.

All seats are assigned at batching, there is no dedicated front or back row queue.
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This is exactly what I want to see done on Swarm, assigned batching 😁
 
I understand. In that case, I wonder why Chessington only made 1 row face backwards instead of half of the rows?

Maybe I'm wrong, but having only 1 row face backwards implies that forwards is the 'default', and thus better, option?

It's not a perfect comparison, but it would be like having one of the trains on the Grand National at Blackpool being shorter than the other train - thus implying that the longer train is somehow 'better' ?

Is it simply because the ride has 7 rows and thus it was impossible to evenly split the rows between two directions anyway?

Or was it simply because turning the back row around meant that they would get an obstructed view, which wouldn't apply to the other rows?
 
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Secret Weapon said:
Or was it simply because turning the back row around meant that they would get an obstructed view, which wouldn't apply to the other rows?
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Basically the ride has two front rows (one at the literal front, one at the back which becomes the front halfway through) and with front rows typically being the most desirable to passengers i think it was a great choice.
 
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