2016: Theme Park Developments

[Alastair]

Thought I'd start some discussion off (very early) on what people think will happen in 2016; the next presumed year for a large investment. The LTDP states that 2016 will see a "large indoor ride." No more information is given though beyond the areas of the park they have scouted for possible locations - the former Coaster Corner area (behind Cloud Cuckoo Land) or on part of the current car park to the east of Nemesis.

Seems more likely that any indoor ride would be built in the Coaster Corner area given its proximity to the village (an indoor ride would presumably be fairly quiet). What does everyone think though as to what the ride could be?

 

[CoasterCrazyChris]

Would love to see a new large scale transit dark ride, the last one built was the Haunted House over 20 years ago!

I don't think Merlin are capable of it though and even if they did attempt one it would probably be some kids IP anyway.

 

[Burbs]

Maybe it will be an indoor roller coaster than a transit ride.

"The world's second indoor roller coaster going backwards in the dark! We are second to Disney and THORPE PARK!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!@!"

Edit: Oh, and what's LTDP?

 

[Nick]

Let's remind ourself of the LTDP for 2010-2014:

Alton Towers Resort wishes to install a number of indoor and outdoor rides at the Resort in the first five year period of the Long Term Plan. Some of these ride proposals would be small scale and located in the existing developed areas. A new major ride (TH13TEEN) has replaced the Corkscrew ride (this development was approved in November 2009 and opened for the 2010 season) and a new rollercoaster has been approved on the site of the former Black Hole). Other major ride opportunities would be promoted in the following locations: to the east of Nemesis, to the east of Air and to the west of Cloud Cuckoo Land (utilising land available from the consolidation and relocation of servicing areas and the waste and recycling centre on land east of the Duel ride).

And for 2015-2019:

A number of existing rides would require replacement as they reach the end of their planned lives. This is likely to include Ripsaw, the Flume and Blade. In addition two large attractions/rides are likely to be developed in 2016 and 2019 (one of which may include a ride across the valley between UG Land to the Forbidden Valley) resulting in approximately six new or replacement medium to large attractions.

This would indicate that a indoor ride will be placed in Coaster Corner, with a major roller coaster in either the Air car park (which may spill over into where Ripsaw and The Blade are now) or a cross valley coaster (which may also spill over into where Ripsaw and The Blade are now or onto the Air car park).

 

[CoasterCrazyChris]

I don't think that Alton Towers needs another thrill coaster until at least 2018 now (few European theme parks have even six major coasters).

They really need to look at expanding the range of attractions on offer, not only a new dark ride but both of the main water rides are shabby and need work. In the case of The Flume it just needs completely replacing.

I just want to see more filler rides too.

 

[Nick]

Edit: Oh, and what's LTDP?

Long Term Development Plan.

A summary:

http://www.towersstreet.com/future/long-term-development-plan/

The whole document:

http://www.altontowers.com/uploadedFiles/Page_Content/Heritage/development-long-term-plan-00-Long-Term-Plan-Summary-Report.pdf

 

[Burbs]

AT so needs a new entrance around FV. Even DMP has 2 entrances and that park is relatively tiny!

 

[Dave]

AT so needs a new entrance around FV. Even DMP has 2 entrances and that park is relatively tiny!

It really doesn't, few parks use two entrances

It could do with a Hotel entrance in FV though.

 

[Maelstrom]

I don't think we will now see the next major addition (ie £15m+ ride) until 2017. Merlin seem to now have moved to a 4 year cycle which makes much more sense as very few parks are adding such large scale investments every 3 years, even six flags and cedar fair no longer do. Gardaland new coaster next year will have been 4 year gap, Thorpe have already commented their 2015 coaster wont happen in 2015 now and will likely be 2016. Legoland Windsor have also moved to 4 year cycle+ as their next major attraction was due this year.

Although Alton is their best performing park outside of the lego parks I cant see Merlin adding Major rides at both Thorpe and Alton in the same year. Plus the new cycle means the 4 Big parks (ex Chessington) all on a rolling cycle with one park getting a Major ride every year (unlike previously where like in 2011 two parks got major rides) this spreads Merlin Investment costs.

Will be interesting to see what's next as all though would love another coaster the park could do with a major dark ride and also log flume replacement. With the log flume they could go two ways, they could add one in a medium investment year and get a half decent one for £5-6m or they could build one on the scale of Chippas as the parks major project instead of a coaster. Also they could Add a Mack water coaster as the next big addition.

Alton also seem to be the only Merlin park that's getting decent money to invest on new attractions on years between big investments, the other seem to be adding very little or very low cost additions (such as a new show or 4d Film etc) Thorpe, Gardaland and Heide added next to nothing over past 5 years apart from their coasters. Where over past 3 years Alton have had £31m.

As much as we moan about Merlin one positive thing is the amount they are investing in new rides and attractions at their parks and yes while they could always spend more or invest it on better attractions in many cases, they are still giving parks the investment. Many other chains don't invest as much as Merlin is some smaller Cedar fair/Six flags parks with attendance levels similar to Thorpe and Heide park haven't had major rides/coasters for years. Same goes for many European parks, look at the gap in major attractions at Astrix before they built the B&M invert. Merlin just need to learn on how to better invest the money on better attractions and not just looking for the latest Gimmick!

 

[Burbs]

AT so needs a new entrance around FV. Even DMP has 2 entrances and that park is relatively tiny!

It really doesn't, few parks use two entrances

It could do with a Hotel entrance in FV though.

Well it would be convenient to have another entrance due to how far away the car park is from the main entrance. It could even open an hour later or something when that end of the car park starts to fill up properly.

Anyway, the hotel does have an entrance in FV... the woodland walk.

 

[Dave]

AT so needs a new entrance around FV. Even DMP has 2 entrances and that park is relatively tiny!

It really doesn't, few parks use two entrances

It could do with a Hotel entrance in FV though.

Well it would be convenient to have another entrance due to how far away the car park is from the main entrance. It could even open an hour later or something when that end of the car park starts to fill up properly.

Anyway, the hotel does have an entrance in FV... the woodland walk.

An entrance for all guests in FV would create a huge bottleneck, as there is only one real path out of that area. Woodland walk is a long walk and not suitable for pushchairs or wheelchairs.

 

[Sam]

AT so needs a new entrance around FV. Even DMP has 2 entrances and that park is relatively tiny!

The most visited park in the world, Magic Kingdom with over 17.5m guest a year, only has one entrance.

 

[Nick]

AT so needs a new entrance around FV. Even DMP has 2 entrances and that park is relatively tiny!

The most visited park in the world, Magic Kingdom with over 17.5m guest a year, only has one entrance.

But AT is about six times larger than Magic Kingdom, in terms of area, so could probably do with it. I reckon having a connection between the hotels and FV, and so an alternate entrance, would make more sense, though.

 

[Alastair]

Would love to see a new large scale transit dark ride, the last one built was the Haunted House over 20 years ago!

I don't think Merlin are capable of it though and even if they did attempt one it would probably be some kids IP anyway.

Unfortunately I am inclined to agree with you, especially when Merlin's sole attempt at a dark ride so far at any of their parks (if I'm not mistaken) ended up in Sub-Terra. A good dark ride needs a significant amount of investment in theming, and I just can't see Merlin managing that to a decent standard.

 

[TheMan]

Merlin MINUS Wardley doing a dark ride?

Waste of cash.

 

[Ian]

It's interesting... I really would love to see a major new dark ride. It's something which Towers has been needing for a good while now, especially given the thrill lineup has recently expanded again with The Smiler. When you consider that a park as small PL still had until this year 4 (Albeit pretty naff) large scale transit dark rides, whilst Alton has just Duel and, ughh, Charlie.

Has any more been heard about Ghost at Legoland Billund? As far as I'm aware it's to be the first really attempt by Merlin at a major dark ride with a transit system included. It could give us a good indication of wether or not they can pull it off.

Personally I think that Merlin could do it rather well. I mean, when they tend to produce major theming elements they usually come out half decent. It just tends to be what's around them and the support which lets them down (The Marmaliser in a dirty concrete pit, or aside from the Crypt Th13teen having bugger all outside for example). In a dark ride you have a different level of freedom. If you don't want people to see something it can be much easier to hide, be it by careful lighting, or minor obstructions.

Take the original Haunted House; the two demons in the dining room and the room of a thousand bluuuuueghs all worked pretty well, and on the whole appear to have been pretty effective. However, the workings of these props are all actually sat just feet away from the riders, and it's only thanks to the poor hash of Duel that they've become exposed. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's easier to cover up things in the dark whilst retaining an immersive experience.

To pick on the only Merlin dark ride at Towers, I wouldn't particularly say the theming on Sub-Terra is bad. When I did it I thought that the main chamber was pretty well done actually. It was the actual execution of the ride itself which let it down, with poor show execution and completely failing to achieve the project brief (This was on opening day of V.1!).

I don't know. We haven't really seen enough of them to be able to fully write off a major Merlin dark ride if you ask me, but I do have a slight feeling that it could be something they might do well.

As for location, well if it's going on Coaster Corner I'd expect (Read: Hope) that it may mean something gets done to Charlie at long last. Particularly if they planned on having a brand new multi-million pound dark ride aimed at the same target market sat next door it probably won't be looking too great in comparison!

For me, I've always fancied the idea of a dark ride built on the coach carpark for the Katanga area. I was discussing it with @Sammy the other day. If you can imagine where the path from Mutiny Bay turns right to the bridge over the rapids (Just past the waterfalls), create a T junction there, with a new path going left through the trees into a small (Like half the size of Gloomy Wood minus Waffles and Ices) jungle themed area, with some form of ruins or temple in front of the guests, screening the car park from view, and creating a small isolated plaza.

Within lies an Intamin Tow Boat ride system (Fata Morgana), which is just a gentle boat ride through some vast enclosed temple and jungle scenes, maybe with a basic voyage to a lost tribe story line (Maybe climbing to a finale of discovering the hostile tribe and having to flee for your lives back out of the temple). It'd be a simple idea, but could be pulled off incredibly well and breath new life into Katanga without ruining what's already there (I'm strongly against adding any rides directly into the main island area. The area was built for those two rides along. Anything new simply must be set aside from them and isolated).

Just my thoughts, although I do agree with some others that Merlin's concept of cycling budgets by year seems to have become more lax recently, so I wouldn't expect anything too major until perhaps 2017 now. Probably a new thrill flat next year to replace Subs, and maybe some smaller filler attraction to go in CBeebies if needed, then again another new flat to replace something old the year after. We can certainly live without a new Secret Weapon for a few years now though if you ask me. Provided it doesn't collapse The Smiler should tide them over for a few years, hopefully allowing for a fully formulated concept and execution next time around

 

[_nemesis_]

Whatever gets built in the next major investment, I would definitely not want it to be a coaster. They haven't invested in a proper family attraction since Battle Galleons*, and I think one is due. Unfortunately, we can't trust Merlin with a dark ride, so they may have to think a little outside the box.

An attraction that I really enjoyed at another park was Speed of Magic. I have no idea what its ride type is but here's basically what it does: Guests (wearing 3D goggles) sit in a single carriage that can hold about eight people. I moves through various rooms with screens. The screen plays a 3D film whilst the carriage moves around in time with it, once that two or three minute film is over, the carriage then moves into the next room where another film is played etc. Each room as a small amount of physical theming, some thing with Merlin know how to do well...

Here's a video of the ride: This video also includes the ride's preshow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwckAD4ik3U

It is totally soundless from the outside, perfect for coaster corner. Even a theme like Speed of Magic's would work in Cloud Cuckoo Land. The ride's throughput is nice and high, so queues won't get too long.

*By family attraction I mean something that everyone can enjoy, together, with no bravery required. So Thirteen doesn't count, neither does Ice Age or CBeebies.

 

[Tim]

Isn't Speed of Magic the same system as Universal's Spiderman/Transformers? If so it's not going to happen, that ride system costs a fortune, more than all the SW's combined!

Ghosts at Billund is Legolands version of Sub-Terra, but staying with Legoland Merlin have created one great dark ride: Atlantis.

 

[BigAl]

There are plenty of cheaper alternatives to dark ride transit systems than what Forbidden Journey and Spiderman use anyway. ETF Rides make various systems that could be utilised. They do cheaper traditional track-bound systems, trackless systems, and systems that are mounted to motion platforms which would allow Alton Towers to give riders a unique dark ride experience - similar in feel to Spiderman - but for a lot less...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSAxUSHsqaw#ws


And it's not so much the ride system or the theming with large dark rides that matters, it's the whole package.

That's why I don't believe Merlin will pull one off in the same way that Tussauds did with Haunted House (and even Tussauds struggled with that for a while). Merlin have made few attractions which you can truly class as 'complete', otherwise, most of what they do seems to show promise but fall short in too many areas.

That's not to say that I wouldn't want them to try one at Alton Towers. Perhaps retheming Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or giving Duel an overhaul is a better place to start?

 

[Maelstrom]

I think Mack water coaster with dark ride sections would be a good option for next big ride. Would slow park to remove the log flume and would have marketing advantage as no other water like it in the uk.

Will also be interesting to see what we get in 2015, with the new enchanted village opening will this have an impact on the budgets for new park attractions. Ideally 2015 should be a kids coaster and a new thrill flat ride.