2017/18: SW8 Speculation

[Nick]

The sound tunnel is very interesting. To my knowledge, the only one in existence is on Gold Striker (a GCI), but that doesn't mean RMC or Gravity Group (which must be said that there are a few over-ground tunnels on Ravine Flyer II which could stop a bit of sound) couldn't also put them in place

To be honest, any wooden coaster would be brilliant, and as I'm now 99.9% sure it's going to be a woodie, my body is ready.

 

[Sam]

What I posted on Towers Times in December:
"Alton Towers 2017
Max Height: 20 m (I believe this means from lowest to highest point, not highest section of the structure)
Launch Velocity: 68 kmph
Launch Angle: 20 degrees
Max Velocity: 80 kmph (I am not sure what part of the layout this speed is reached, possibly following the first drop from the launch?)
Total Length: 885 m
Inversions: 2
"Barrel Roll"
"Zero G Roll"
Total Ride Time: 90 sec
Capacity: 1080 pph
Other interesting features:
Elements include: "Wave Turn" "120 degree Overbank" "S turns" "Corkscrew Float" (twisty airtime hill, doesn't invert)
2 tunnels underneath pathways. (One after the wave turn and near the station, the other further along the layout on the other side of the station.)
14 moments of airtime."

Do you guys want to reconsider what I told you in December? I still stand by my claim. Notice how I mentioned a low maximum height and two tunnels? The coaster won't extend far, just up a hill and back, certainly not cross-valley. Get excited, people!

Yeah, anyone could have told us that. There's a great game on coaster forums where you make an educated stab at what's going to happen, pretend you're 'in the know', and when what was likely from the beginning does actually come to pass, pretend you have some sort of insider knowledge.

p.s. I think Towers will add another rollercoaster before 2025. Watch this space!

 

[Rob]

It's nice to see that the conclusion that an EIA isn't needed. Would that aid the approval?

I'm not too sure about that. It certainly helps to speed up the process though as EIA's can be very time consuming.

This is very exciting - we finally have confirmation that SW8 will be a woodie! From what has been said I am certainly leaning towards GCI although it is probably too early to say.

As for the extent of where this will go, I still do not think it will be cross valley but it certainly will be dipping into parts of the valley.

Looks like goodbye Ripsaw and/or Blade as well. I hope they learn lessons from Dark Forest and get some sort of new flat or other support ride in FV along with this.

 

[Alastair]

The sound tunnel is very interesting. To my knowledge, the only one in existence is on Gold Striker (a GCI), but that doesn't mean RMC or Gravity Group (which must be said that there are a few over-ground tunnels on Ravine Flyer II which could stop a bit of sound) couldn't also put them in place

To be honest, any wooden coaster would be brilliant, and as I'm now 99.9% sure it's going to be a woodie, my body is ready.

GhostRider at Knott's has a sound shielded drop - it's not completely covered though.

 

[towerslover101]

I'm not too sure about that. It certainly helps to speed up the process though as EIA's can be very time consuming.

This is very exciting - we finally have confirmation that SW8 will be a woodie! From what has been said I am certainly leaning towards GCI although it is probably too early to say.

As for the extent of where this will go, I still do not think it will be cross valley but it certainly will be dipping into parts of the valley.

Looks like goodbye Ripsaw and/or Blade as well. I hope they learn lessons from Dark Forest and get some sort of new flat or other support ride in FV along with this.

I also hope that all the area cleared at the rear of RITA is for a Flat this year too

 

[rightbackgranty]

I'm not too sure about that. It certainly helps to speed up the process though as EIA's can be very time consuming.


...will be dipping into parts of the valley...

....Looks like goodbye Ripsaw and/or Blade as well...

1) Good news, Of course, still early days - can still be turned down at planning if there are enough objections. However, the document seems very supportive of Alton Towers aims.

2) My feeling - not expecting full valley coverage. The plans clearly have to change from their last incarnation - isn't Thirteen in the way of some of the old plans track?

3) I hope they recycle at least 1 flat to another area of the park. Dark Forest is calling out for a flat +/- a retheme. Even if not new, it would make Dark Forest feel less forgotten.

Interestingly, the previous plans had slightly more trees that required clearing than this proposal (127 v 140). However, we know trees have already been cleared. Does anyone know how many visitors were expected to be pulled in by The Smiler? I'd assume over 150'000 but I cant find any evidence. Just to gauge the size of investment.

 

[Rob]

1) Good news, Of course, still early days - can still be turned down at planning if there are enough objections. However, the document seems very supportive of Alton Towers aims.

Oh yes of course. This has no real baring on whether or not it will get planning permission as so far all that has been assessed is whatever material Towers have submitted to the council in accordance to the EIA regulations. This will be a major planning application with many points that will not have been covered so far.

I do however expect Towers to get planning permission. They work very closely with the council and I get the impression that both Towers and the council share certain views about permitted future development of the resort.

I pray we get a decent layout though, I really do!

 

[Alastair]

Does anyone know how many visitors were expected to be pulled in by The Smiler? I'd assume over 150'000 but I cant find any evidence. Just to gauge the size of investment.

Yes, 150,000:

 

[rightbackgranty]

Yes, 150,000:

I'd place this in Secret Weapon territory then? Thanks for the info!

 

[PeteB]

SW8 you say?

Woody?

Cross valley?

 

[Tom]

It's the 14.5m max from the ground and the removal of only 127 trees that makes me worry this isn't going to be as epic as the Wardley conception!

 

[AstroDan]

It won't be the cross valley as designed many moons back.

But so? Woodies have come a long way since then.

 

[rightbackgranty]

It's the 14.5m max from the ground and the removal of only 127 trees that makes me worry this isn't going to be as epic as the Wardley conception!

Well, I suppose it depends on how much of the valley is to be utilised. If the ride were to (a) launch (as Karnan has alluded to) and (b) launch in the direction of the valley being only 14.5m from the ground wont be a problem. Besides, I doubt nemesis ever gets more than 14.5m above the ground - and I'm fine with that

Regarding tree felling - the 2003 plans reported 146 trees to be removed. Thats not a huge difference, especially as some felling has already happened. I think cross valley is a pipe dream, but as Dan has said, things have changed. There's more to wooden coasters than airtime - though I hope they pack as much in as they can!

 

[phildenholm]

Cross valley or not looks like towers will get wood. Lets just hope they can pull it off and not cut corners!

 

[Tom]

Well, I suppose it depends on how much of the valley is to be utilised. If the ride were to (a) launch (as Karnan has alluded to) and (b) launch in the direction of the valley being only 14.5m from the ground wont be a problem. Besides, I doubt nemesis ever gets more than 14.5m above the ground - and I'm fine with that

Regarding tree felling - the 2003 plans reported 146 trees to be removed. Thats not a huge difference, especially as some felling has already happened. I think cross valley is a pipe dream, but as Dan has said, things have changed. There's more to wooden coasters than airtime - though I hope they pack as much in as they can!

Thanks for that background info!

 

[rightbackgranty]

Thanks for that background info!

I was surprised to see it was 'only' 146 trees in the original plans. The way it was talked about it seemed a great deal more. The original plans included a lift hill of 22m. The plans discussed in the document almost feel like a 'smaller' version of the original, without actually seeing anything solid.

I'd love to know more about the proposed area of the ride mentioned in the EIA - 1.5 hectares is a decent area, certainly bigger than the footprint for The Smiler. It's got to encroach a decent distance into the valley, there isn't the sort of room left in FV for that size of footprint.

 

[Sammy]

Well well well... Isn't this all very exciting!! Literally, what we have all be waiting for for years! There certainly seems to be a lot of positive goings on at the Towers right now and I for one can't wait to see them develop!

It's the 14.5m max from the ground and the removal of only 127 trees that makes me worry this isn't going to be as epic as the Wardley conception!

What you have to bare in mind about this, is it doesn't mean the drop will only be 14.5m tall, it just means it will never be higher than that from the ground... But the ground they are building on, is one colossal hill! So, effectively the track could constantly remain 14.5 meters above ground, but still manage to drop over 200ft following the line of the land!

As for the tree removal, 127 trees is still quite a lot, but it is positive to see that it has been deemed unnecessary for a full EIA as this means the application stands much more of a chance of passing! Anyway, surely will more trees remaining the ride will be more twisted and filled with near misses!

I'd love to know more about the proposed area of the ride mentioned in the EIA - 1.5 hectares is a decent area, certainly bigger than the footprint for The Smiler. It's got to encroach a decent distance into the valley, there isn't the sort of room left in FV for that size of footprint.

Now, one final point just to put the size of this development fully into perspective, 17000m2 is really rather large! In that space, you could fit 3 of The Smiler, around 2.5 of Nemesis, the entirety of Splash Landings & Extraordinary Golf or almost all of Congo River Rapids/Katanga Canyon! This is one huge development, we are possibly in one of the most exciting times to be a Towers Geek in years!

 

[Dave]

What I posted on Towers Times in December:
"Alton Towers 2017
Max Height: 20 m (I believe this means from lowest to highest point, not highest section of the structure)
Launch Velocity: 68 kmph
Launch Angle: 20 degrees
Max Velocity: 80 kmph (I am not sure what part of the layout this speed is reached, possibly following the first drop from the launch?)
Total Length: 885 m
Inversions: 2
"Barrel Roll"
"Zero G Roll"
Total Ride Time: 90 sec
Capacity: 1080 pph
Other interesting features:
Elements include: "Wave Turn" "120 degree Overbank" "S turns" "Corkscrew Float" (twisty airtime hill, doesn't invert)
2 tunnels underneath pathways. (One after the wave turn and near the station, the other further along the layout on the other side of the station.)
14 moments of airtime."

Do you guys want to reconsider what I told you in December? I still stand by my claim. Notice how I mentioned a low maximum height and two tunnels? The coaster won't extend far, just up a hill and back, certainly not cross-valley. Get excited, people!

The reason i can question your original suggestion is the idea that a track length of 850m (which is very short) would require an EIA to cover 17000m2 of land (which is very big). It's been no big secret Towers have been looking at a woodie for a while so we are still in the realm of conjecture.

After all this is just an EIA and not a planning application, maybe all will change. Until we have an approved application i wont get my hopes up!

 

[Altonadvocate1]

Wow, the beginning of a new secret weapon project and my first since becoming a member.

It's going to be a wild ride and that's just the forum between now and 2017.

Hope they can deliver a huge woody, hopefully cross valley without ruining the amazing setting.

Would love John Wardley, though officially retired to have some influence in this project.

Come on Alton Towers... Do us proud and make the same impact in 2017 that Nemesis did in 1994.

 

[smudge]

1994?

This was great news to read though, I just hope this really happens. How soon would we expect full planning permission?