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2017/18: SW8 Speculation

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I think if Derren Brown's Ghost Train is executed well, that will give Merlin more confidence to push ahead in the areas you mention. Nonetheless, Alton will always thrive off coasters as long as it's around.
 
I think that in order to win back the quantity of guests they need AT will do something that appeals to both the family and thrill markets. Much as I would love something utterly terrifying, I think we will get a SW scarier than the flume, but less thrilling than thirteen (which I still can't get my other half to go on).

How about a dueling coaster or water ride with 2 tracks, one for family, the other for thrill. The family track would be shorter, but slower with mild drops, whereas the thrill track would be longer, but faster with bigger drops and other thrill elements. They could have multiple crossover points to give the illusion of racing. A great way of helping the nervous to graduate from family to thrill.

World's first incremental graduation family thrill ride (copyright Altonadvocate1 2016).
 
I would hate to have another gimmick driven ride which lacks quality as a consequence but I just can't see it happen. When they are currently using the phrase "Worlds first rollercoaster FULLY DEDICATED to VR" if it gets to the point where they are willing to add conditions to make there world first true I can't see them leaving it behind. We can pretty much gurentee that this will be a word first of some kind but only God knows what ridiculously stupid idea they are going with. But even if they didn't go for a worlds first do we really think Merlin will be willing to fork out for top quality theming? They would definitely cut corners and if the coaster went even the smallest bit over budget we all know it would be the first thing to disappear. So I'm just waiting for the worlds first inverted flying wooden coaster with washing machine element, fully dedicated to being themeless utter tripe!
 
I wouldn't of thought so, that was planned for the area behind the fence next to pizza pasta and around magic hq? Correct me if I'm wrong. I can't see a stand up now due to cost and non interest for the ride type in years.

Also I don't fancy having my nuts crushed at Alton, il save that for drayton
 
Altonadvocate1 said:
How about a dueling coaster or water ride with 2 tracks, one for family, the other for thrill. The family track would be shorter, but slower with mild drops, whereas the thrill track would be longer, but faster with bigger drops and other thrill elements. They could have multiple crossover points to give the illusion of racing. A great way of helping the nervous to graduate from family to thrill.

World's first incremental graduation family thrill ride (copyright Altonadvocate1 2016).
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Vekoma's Battlestar Galactica duelling coasters at Universal Singapore are like this, with the inversionless 'Human' sit-down coaster and inverted 'Cylon' coaster beginning with side by side launched lift hills.
 
Just had a thought........ Alton towers discovers an oversized duck after the Forrest took over the area that has morphed into a monster in the ground!!!! Oops sorry they have already done that.

Seriously though, I would like to see a good attempt at extending the mutiny bay theme with some quality theming to match battle galleons. A light hearted continuation to the pirate theme with quality ride to match.
 
Cheese said:
Vekoma's Battlestar Galactica duelling coasters at Universal Singapore are like this, with the inversionless 'Human' sit-down coaster and inverted 'Cylon' coaster beginning with side by side launched lift hills.
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Unfortunately, it's an absolutely rubbish pair of coasters - mainly because they prioritised the duelling over actually building a thrilling ride.
 
Imagination said:
Sadly MMM don't seem to quite grasp the UK audience and their wants...they've got us very wrong.
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MMM don't seem to grasp anything very much at all. They're pretty useless in fact, and it all comes down to one magic word - "showmanship". That's all it is, and Merlin have none of it. John Wardley and his co-workers back int'day understood it. If they approached their attractions from a theatrical perspective instead of from a technical, or sales & marketing one, then all would be well.

Even the department's name is absurdly stupid. Merlin Magic Making - what the actual hell is that? What was wrong with Tussauds Studios? Again, its all about marketing instead of creativity and imagination. Money, money, money. Sell, sell, sell. Yawn!
 
Merlin optimise their organisation towards capex, so MMM don't have the incentives to think longer-term when building attractions.

I remember an interview with Nick Varney where he said that any new attractions have to be pitched with a "killer image". Basically if it can't be made to look sellable, it won't get off the starting block, and a scary, dark "world's first" is far easier to sell than something that has much greater lasting appeal.
 
Maybe Alton Towers don't need to remove the flume.
CALL ME CRAZY BUT.........Maybe they are going to refresh the track and build something around it (making it a dark ride).
You may disagree but I think Alton Towers have proven that they CAN do good theming as seen from Galactica (and the Rollercoaster Restaurant)so maybe they could make an immersive experience from it.
 
Georgia said:
Maybe Alton Towers don't need to remove the flume.
CALL ME CRAZY BUT.........Maybe they are going to refresh the track and build something around it (making it a dark ride).
You may disagree but I think Alton Towers have proven that they CAN do good theming as seen from Galactica (and the Rollercoaster Restaurant)so maybe they could make an immersive experience from it.
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Galactica doesn't really have theming aside from the portal element. The rest of the minimal theme was already there. As for the restaurant, it hasn't actually opened yet so we can't really judge that theming.

I think it's pretty certain that the Flume will be removed. It's completely outdated and there are far better water rides out there across the world. If the park wants to continue to compete with world class attractions, they will replace it completely.
 
Andrew said:
Galactica doesn't really have theming aside from the portal element. The rest of the minimal theme was already there. As for the restaurant, it hasn't actually opened yet so we can't really judge that theming.

I think it's pretty certain that the Flume will be removed. It's completely outdated and there are far better water rides out there across the world. If the park wants to continue to compete with world class attractions, they will replace it completely.
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With Galactica it is the package not just the ride so they have put the logo into the floor (leading up to the ride), repainted the rocks around the area to fit into the new theme, the photo point in the queue where the join point used to be, also the station has now been enclosed to get the feel for a space station, the bridge to the other side of the station has also been redone now enclosed with plenty of theming for Galactica and the shop has been themed well as well with the logo as lights and the silver and blue colour scheme (with logos) throughout.

See this video for conformation:
 
Andrew said:
Galactica doesn't really have theming aside from the portal element. The rest of the minimal theme was already there. As for the restaurant, it hasn't actually opened yet so we can't really judge that theming.

I think it's pretty certain that the Flume will be removed. It's completely outdated and there are far better water rides out there across the world. If the park wants to continue to compete with world class attractions, they will replace it completely.
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I do agree that they may remove it as it can be quite rough and and knock you around I was just suggesting something I thought they may do, as they may only need to replace certain pieces of track and/or extend parts to make the ride better.
 
Georgia said:
I do agree that they may remove it as it can be quite rough and and knock you around I was just suggesting something I thought they may do, as they may only need to replace certain pieces of track and/or extend parts to make the ride better.
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They could by all means do that but really, the ride is shockingly outdated so they'd rather replace it with a completely new, world-class system that they can market over a 30 odd year old ride that every park has.

As for your points about Galactica, whilst the shop does look nice (we all know Merlin like the make their money-making exploits look pretty) the rest of it is standard stuff. It's nothing extra ordinary and it's really just a few extra walls and sticker. The brickwork is a nice touch in their defence, but overall it's not exactly Disney levels of theming.
 
All this talk of lacking "gimmicks"...?

The only real "gimmick" is the marketing.

SW6 was a family ride and I don't think deserved the tag, they were stupid, we all know that - BUT it's still a fantastic little family ride! We all got disappointed because of HOW they marketed it.

I can't deny having taken people on it though who didn't know, what a shocker the crypt is hahahaha!

The Smiler is a 14 inversion behemoth of a coaster that's let down, again, by crappy theme elements, that horrific pit, and a poor build quality - OTHERWISE it would be sensational.

air was a "gimmick", Nemesis was a "gimmick", Oblivion was a "gimmick".

It's otherwise known as trying to be creative and push the envelope. The marketing and quality of theme has DEFINITELY gone down the pan in comparison, but I don't see that as a reason to detract from some great rides.

The out and back bit of SW6 didn't match up, but the crypt, reverse, and inside theme is pretty damn good!

And The Smiler when dueling is wonderfully impressive and imposing.

Just the CONCRETE ffs! WHY?

The coasters aren't the problem. The lack of care, attention to detail, ludicrous marketing (in some cases) is what lets it down.

I think the talk of "gimmick" based coasters is unfair (yes, I said that) because it's been in Towers' DNA to create rides of this nature and I'd hate to see that stop and some off the shelf coaster you can ride in a multitude of other parks created.
 
Imagine what they could have got instead of Thirteen or The Smiler if they'd spent the money on a decent ride instead of worrying about what they could market.
 
Dar said:
Imagine what they could have got instead of Thirteen or The Smiler if they'd spent the money on a decent ride instead of worrying about what they could market.
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Given the budget which we know is all inclusive, what could you get that's better than The Smiler?

I'd not say no to a Helix or something for example, but this is Towers, where would they put it?

And it's massively imposing and impressive to watch and to ride, if it was smooth and they'd done the theme right it really would be spectacular. It isn't, as it happens, but that's not because the idea was wrong - it is because, as per of late, the implementation of the idea was.

Don't tell me if anyone saw that coaster in another park people here wouldn't be impressed. Look at the response to Taron, that's far less impressive - but the THEME is way, way better.

As for said other ride, I love the drop in the crypt, it's fun and entertaining. It's the boring out and back bit that annoys me, even the drop is decent.

How they marketed it though was ridiculous.
 
The Smiler is a great ride. However the theme is very poorly conceived. The plans for The Smiler had great potential, a plaza in the pit, with the imposing Marmaliser above, the jetty on the upper section of the ride, allowing non-riders to interact with the ride, a more interesting queue design, several theming elements and a good concept.

Several things just never materialized (mainly down to the disastrous ground-works). I can't blame them in one way, although I wish Merlin pumped more money into it so the theme could be fully conceived... and that's where the problem lies with Merlin, they just couldn't care less about creating an experience and don't invest enough in that area, it's all market market market, sell sell sell, money money money.

One thing they did right with The Smiler was marketing the ride. I really liked the build up and reveal to the public.
 
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