Would those three rides of happened if it wasn’t for the fire?
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2020: General Discussion
- Thread starter Danny
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RicketyCricket
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
Probably not tbf. If I remember correctly at least 2 of those were second hand rides? The hardware was cheap but they really went in on the advertising.
Something like Talocan at Towers would be very marketable at a fraction of the cost of a coaster. Don't know what their beef is with flats.
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Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
This very interesting ScrewyLoops video about the cancelled rides of Thorpe Park might well offer some indication of what would have happened had the fire not happened:
Things of note from the Tussauds era that could have conceivably been planned pre-fire but intended for post-fire include:
- A Vekoma LSM Coaster that looked to be a clone of Rock’n’Rollercoaster/Xpress was to be built on the site of Nemesis Inferno. It would have retained Tropical Travels instead of getting rid of it like Tussauds eventually did post-fire.
- Colossus was initially considered to be a B&M launch coaster akin to Hulk at IOA.
- A Vekoma SLC was very nearly built at Thorpe on reclaimed land next to the TWD pyramid (could this have been the original plan for “Nemesis Inferno”?)
So in answer to your question, I’d guess probably not. Also, the nature in which they were installed was apparently quite “last-minute”, as the Detonator model is actually a travelling drop tower model more commonly seen in fairs, and either Vortex or Zodiac apparently made BBC Watchdog due to opening late!
EDIT: Whoops, never even realised this was an Alton topic!
High throughput coasters, dark rides, and transport rides can get through far higher volumes of people per hour than a series of flat rides, which often have long loading times and low throughputs per cycle (unless you invest in something particularly high throughput like mystery castle). That's why you see a very low amount of flat rides at Europa Park, and if there are flat rides they are mainly higher throughput ones like a swinging ship or an observation tower.
In the case of towers though, they've removed most of their flats and not replaced them, so the capacity of the park has been reduced considerably given they've removed a handful of rides and there's now less attractions to experience. Had they been replaced with people-munchers, like dark rides/coasters/scenic high throughput track rides etc, then this would be more understandable.
At the end of the day a lot of flat rides don't age well and are hard and expensive to maintain, and often cheaper to sell off than repair. Your example of talocan is actually pretty much the opposite to the reality, it's made by one of the most unreliable manufacturers, Huss, costs a lot of money, time and effort to repair and will reach the end of it's life cycle far quicker than a more permanent investment.
Just look at talocan. Last year it had so many issues. They had to provide the carriage with brand new restraints, replace the brake and then the control panel. It then ran ok over the second half of wintertraum only to completely break down again at the beginning of this season. Over lockdown the whole gondola had to be shipped away for maintenance yet this didn't even help. The ride is now stuck on the worst cycle I have ever seen talocan perform...
I fear for the end of it's life, and it's one of my favourite rides. I am a flat ride person, but this shows why they might not be sustainable in the long run for parks. But in the case of towers, they've removed a handful of flats and a dark ride and just left the empty plots, which in my opinion is not desirable as it reduces the amount of things to do in the park.
djtruefitt
TS Team
The thing is towers run Blade and Enterprise with one staff member each. Submission was two or three on both sides, ripsaw was two.
Then you have wicker man which had 9 staff when it opened, Smiler with 8, TH13TEEN with 6, Galactica with god knows how many.
So generally flat rides can run on far less staff than others, problem is merlin seem to design rides to run with too many staff, then the only way to cut those staff is to remove baggage, merge points, etc which has happened on the rides.
James
TS Founding Member
Remember Sub-Terra with it's 11+ staff required to run it... 
I've said it since the dawn of time, they should add flat rides along with the SW coasters. A cheap alongside flat ride that compliments the ride line-up, and no one has to think of some ridiculous USP as the new shiny coaster is the ride guaranteed to pull in the numbers.
I've said it since the dawn of time, they should add flat rides along with the SW coasters. A cheap alongside flat ride that compliments the ride line-up, and no one has to think of some ridiculous USP as the new shiny coaster is the ride guaranteed to pull in the numbers.
Ripsaw dropped to single host (so ride Op + 1 host) operation long before it's demise. I know as I was one of those single hosts! The Towers managers had all these crazy ideas about how you could batch guests when the ride was running - but they failed to note that the batching area gets wet - guests only want to get wet when ON the ride.
Of course, as soon as you suggested that a Ride Manager may like to leave their office and see how things actually ran, well, don't be silly.
The only time we saw management en-masse in "The Valley" was when it was Ralph's "front line focus" day, which was 100% stage-managed.
djtruefitt
TS Team
Yes I’ve only ever known ripsaw with two staff, the op and the host. But even that worked fine and I’ve known a lot of top spins to operate on one staff member who hosts and ops.
My point is flat rides require very few staff and costs compared to massive dark rides or rollercoasters, at merlin parks anyway when they add various complicated positions and procedures which require too many staff, then a year later budgets get cut and it’s up to the parks to somehow cut the staffing when the rides aren’t designed for it.
imanautie
TS Member
I'm not sure if it's accurate to say it's a merlin issue (see THORPE'S standard procedure for flats)
djtruefitt
TS Team
Do the Thorpe flats use a lot of staff?
imanautie
TS Member
They seem to consistently use at least dual staff sometimes even more when they could in theory get away with less.
djtruefitt
TS Team
To be fair Enterprise would work so much better with two staff members rather than the poor sod on their own. The same could be said for the twirling toadstool when it was there.
Plastic Person
TS Member
It seems insane and surely an insurance nightmare to devote the operation of a powerful thrill ride to just one individual. I don't think I would feel comfortable operating Enterprise solo, never mind motivated.
jon81uk
TS Member
I've not worked at the park, but the main safety feeling for me would be around guest management rather than ride operation. If a guest got violent when being told their child is too short, or they were queue jumping, who is going to call for assistance if one host is with the guest, there is no-one else to use the phone or assist in other ways.
Running a flat ride feels like the relatively easy part, it is the host part that is harder.
Islander
TS Member
This again would be an operational thing - wouldn't have any implication on 'insurance' or anything like that lol
jon81uk
TS Member
No it is entirely about staff wellbeing. Working alone is more stressful and dealing with nasty guests could lead to mental health issues. Just working alongside someone else and knowing someone "has your back" I imagine is much nicer. Its nothing to do with insurance or anything, just the health and wellbeing of staff.
Alsty
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Fury 325
But what you describe is no different to a host on a ride entrance or Fastrack merge point. If things kick off that much you wouldn't be able to summon help even though technically you have a phone to the operator. However in reality this kind of thing just doesn't happen.
Firstly, when you work with the public you have to have a thick skin and you soon learn not to take it personally. You'd already have plenty of experience with unhappy guests before passing off to work a ride alone. Secondly, things are generally possible to de-escalate before they get out of hand. For instance with height checks even the most irritated parent would, in my experience, be happy just to wait to one side once they know a manager is on the way.
Firstly, when you work with the public you have to have a thick skin and you soon learn not to take it personally. You'd already have plenty of experience with unhappy guests before passing off to work a ride alone. Secondly, things are generally possible to de-escalate before they get out of hand. For instance with height checks even the most irritated parent would, in my experience, be happy just to wait to one side once they know a manager is on the way.
Plastic Person
TS Member
Perhaps you can chalk it down to me not driving a car? Personally, the responsibility of loading, operating and observing a gravitational wheel spinning at power for forty guests seems like something best taken care of with another pair of hands or eyes in the vicinity.
jon81uk
TS Member
Oh I don't think it is common, but there would be something in my mind if I was in that role, where the entrance host on a rollercoaster knows there are other team members at the station and nearby. Whereas on a flat ride if you are host and op you feel alone. I've worked in retail and there is a difference when you are the only person in your department compared to when two staff are in even if you are alone on a till and the other person is some distance away. Its entirely a mindset thing.
I don't think there would be many incidents where trouble happens and things kick off, but companies should never rely on staff having "thick-skin" and should have appropriate support in place. People should have experience, training and knowledge to be able to work alone
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