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[2025] Toxicator: New Forbidden Valley Suspended Top Spin

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QTXAdsy said:
Jeez, give Bianca her credit in wanting to get the park's flat ride issue sorted ASAP. Name me a time in which any leadership in the park would have been wanting to do this?

Of we get a returning Ripsaw opening this year and dare I say maybe one or two flat rides added for 2025 then would we consider the park's flat ride issue solved or how many flats should the park have?
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I believe that the park needs to resolve it's ride shortage issue.
  • 2 Thrill Flats on the scale of Ripsaw.
  • 3 Family Thrill Flats on the scale of Blade.
  • 1 Log Flume or Shoot the Chute (this would likely be compact).
  • 2 or 3 Family or Family Thrill Flats to open alongside Project Horizon (I'd say Dodgems and Musik Express should fill some of those slots so it is indoor friendly).
  • Sorting out the empty buildings in Walliams World.
  • It would be nice to see more indoor rides on the line up so that there's more to do all year round.
 
RustyRider said:
Sorry if I’ve missed this in the thread already but do we know if there are any plans on how the concrete block will look once complete. I’m really hoping for some elaborate rock work to fit in with the rest of the valley like what we’ve seen at EP with AlpenExpress?

We all know towers track record with concrete tunnels and I really hope the costs don’t spiral out of control and we end up with an air tunnel situation again!
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Pretty sure the planning documents say it'll be bare concrete, with stencils
 
Planning docs say painted concrete with stencils, so likely to be painted black with painted stripes/letters like the other buildings in the area.
 
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Air Tunnel with stencils. All of the fun of a 1970's underpass, brutalist council estate, or motorway tunnel, but at Alton Towers! A perfect fit for the oppressive warzone/Forbidden Valley as before but in gloss black and now with helicopters aesthetic of the rest of the area.

But a new decent flat that's had some effort put into it, in a park that otherwise has an embarrassing track record in that regard I guess. Beggars can't be choosers. Give them a chance, better than nothing, turning a corner and all that etc etc.
 
To be honest I’d much rather they carried on the investment of flats than coasters given their current line up. My past couple of visits have felt kind of monotonous standing in large queues for what feels like 30 seconds on a coaster.

Would love it if they got really creative and threw one in gloomy wood or even Katanga some how!
 
Alphe86 said:
Other then a Gyro Swing they almost exclusively spin around and around 😂
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Dodgems only spin if you make them do so...
A good old fashioned fun house style barrel, and covered fun wheel (flat wooden slide off spinny) would be good spectator fun too.
And only spinning in one plane I could add.
 
I wonder what the lead times are on Top Spins, hopefully the order was placed to pair up with the site construction, meaning hardware will be on site roughly when the ground work is complete. If that happens there is a possibility this will open this year.....exciting times. Possibly a week or two to fully assemble the ride on site, that is being VERY conservative to. Obviously as this is the park and not travelling model, other things will need doing, many things in fact. But the actual structure can go up in days, if that, once on site., it is a variation of a ride designed to be carted around on lorry's after all. Very intrigued to see how they theme this. The theming on a Top Spin is always something that makes a parks individual ride stand out among the rest.

They are such great rides, amazing for one to be coming back to Towers, Ripsaw is missed by many! Go Alton Towers!!!

Top Spin's are notorious for being heavier on maintenance than your average flat ride. No surprise, it is insane the forces that are involved when the thing flips over and over. Over time it does take it's toll. Just look at the technical bulletins that have been issued for the ride. Basically ALL of the major structural components. You can mitigate these somewhat by running the tamer ride cycles, which no one really wants. Parks usually go for the middle cycle settings that offer a good balance between tame and intense. I am pretty certain Ripsaw's ops were not allowed as per their training manual to put Ripsaw on the higher / more intense cycles, it may have even had a physical lock off, as it was strictly prohibited I believe. Settings which are only usually used in the travelling fair circuits. It makes sense, they don't have anywhere the amount of operating hours and duty cycling of the equipment as a theme park, so the hardware can get away with it.

I must stress, this does not at all suggest these rides are unsafe, far from it, these technical bulletin's are there specifically to make sure the rides get the extra maintenance where it is needed, to ensure they don't develop issues and can keep taking riders, safely, for a long time.

1714942817133.png

These rides are insane, they flip like crazy, it is what makes them such good rides, with that comes a little bit extra maintenance.

Talocan over at Phantasia Land was fully removed from it's site a few years back to have specialist steel work and welding done off site, but they do require a bit more attention on park throughout their life. Alton's leadership teams will be very aware of the maintenance required for these rides, so to me, what this does highlight is Alton Towers are confident moving forward that the resources park wide are going to be available to support it. If they were not confident they would not buy an attraction that requires a little bit more maintenance than average. I am sure things are already in place to change the issues the park have had with downtime, but results will never be seen straight away, it takes time, due to the nature of the work. Overall, great signs, as it is hopefully an indication of things returning to normal regarding availability. Back to how it should be.

I'll be very surprised if this has water fountains that interact with the gondola like the old Ripsaw used to. While HUSS never sold Top Spins with fountains, HUSS did mention that they could be used on the product page for the ride. I think I am correct in saying this was done after Mr Wardley and Chessington put the first controllable fountains on a Top Spin ever to great success and then it was the must have feature for almost every Top Spin installation world wide. There is no mention of active fountains on the product page for floorless Top Spin's or the like these days and I think HUSS do actively discourage it due to, as others have mentioned, reliability issues. If they can do it then absoloutly great as it does add quite a bit to the ride experience, but is is not something I am expecting.

I love HUSS attractions, they are such great spectator rides as well as actual, you know, rides. They have had one before, but this to this day, is such a good fit for the park. This is assuming it is HUSS and not one of these pieces of scrap metal...😂😂. I am sure these are perfectly safe.

1714942968493.png

There is a great fully operable Top Spin in one of the many, many excellent user made, downloadable (free) parks for your paid copy of No Limits 2. This specific park is called El Dorado Resort from the Steam Workshop. Great fun to pass the time. I spend WAY more hours than I should on these parks, exploring back stage areas in dark rides and what not, turning work lights / scenic lights on and off and all that. The little things eh.

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PG Ricey said:
To be honest I’d much rather they carried on the investment of flats than coasters given their current line up. My past couple of visits have felt kind of monotonous standing in large queues for what feels like 30 seconds on a coaster.

Would love it if they got really creative and threw one in gloomy wood or even Katanga some how!
Click to expand...

Honestly I don't think it has to be one or the other, not any more, in some cases anyway. Scott O'Neil has acknowledged in a podcast something along the lines that some parks are looking tired and need investment. Alton Towers is almost certainly one of these and investment it is now getting buy quite a lot it would seem.
 
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I think what's exciting with Huss is that they have other rides that would fit perfectly in several areas of Alton Towers many of which would fit within 1.2 height restrictions. Really hope this is a first of a few Huss products to arrive at Towers
 
DistortAMG said:
I wonder what the lead times are on top spins, hopefully the order was placed to pair up with the site construction, meaning hardware will be on site roughly when the ground work is complete. If that happens there is a possibility this will open this year.....exciting times. Possibly a week or two to fully assemble the ride on site, that is being VERY conservative to. Obviously as this is the park and not travelling model, other things will need doing, many things in fact. But the actual structure go up in days, if that, once on site. Very intrigued to see how they theme this. The theming on a topspin is always something that makes a parks individual ride stand out among the rest.

They are such great rides, amazing for one to be coming back to Towers, Ripsaw is missed by many! Go Alton Towers!!!

Topspin's are notorious for being heavier on maintenance than your average flat ride. No surprise, it is insane the forces that are involved when the thing flips over and over. Over time it does take it's toll. Just look at the technical bulletins that have been issued for the ride. Basically ALL of the major structural components. You can mitigate these somewhat by running the tamer ride cycles, which no one really wants. Parks usually go for the middle cycle settings that offer a good balance between tame and intense. I am pretty certain Ripsaw's ops were not allowed as per their training manual to put Ripsaw on the higher / more intense cycles, it may have even had a physical lock off, as it was strictly prohibited I believe. Settings which are only usually used in the travelling fair circuits. It makes sense, they don't have anywhere the amount of operating hours and duty cycling of the equipment as a theme park, so the hardware can get away with it.

I must stress, this does not at all suggest these rides are unsafe, far from it, these technical bulletin's are there specifically to make sure the rides get the extra maintenance where it is needed, to ensure they don't develop issues and can keep taking riders, safely, for a long time.

1714942817133.png

These rides are insane, they flip like crazy, it is what makes them such good rides, with that comes a little bit extra maintenance.

Talocan over at Phantasia Land was fully removed from it's site a few years back to have specialist steel work and welding done off site, but they do require a bit more attention on park throughout their life. Alton's leadership teams will be very aware of the maintenance required for these rides, so to me, what this does highlight is Alton Towers are confident moving forward that the resources park wide are going to be available to support it. If they were not confident they would not buy an attraction that requires a little bit more maintenance than average. I am sure things are already in place to change the issues the park have had with downtime, but results will never be seen straight away, it takes time, due to the nature of the work. Overall, great signs, as it is hopefully an indication of things returning to normal regarding availability. Back to how it should be.

I'll be very surprised if this has water fountains that interact with the gondola like the old Ripsaw used to. While HUSS never sold top spins with fountains, HUSS did mention that they could be used on the product page for the ride. I think I am correct in saying this was done after Mr Wardley and Chessington put the first controllable fountains on a top spin ever to great success and then it was the must have feature for almost every Top Spin installation world wide. There is no mention of active fountains on the product page for floorless topspin's or the like these days and I think HUSS do actively discourage it due to, as others have mentioned, reliability issues. If they can do it then absoloutly great as it does add quite a bit to the ride experience, but is is not something I am expecting.

I love HUSS attractions, they are such great spectator rides as well as actual, you know, rides. They have had one before, but this to this day, is such a good fit for the park. This is assuming it is HUSS and one of these pieces of scrap metal...😂😂. I am sure these are perfectly safe.

1714942968493.png

There is a great fully operable Top Spin in one of the many, many excellent user made, downloadable (free) parks for your paid copy of No Limits 2. This specific park is called El Dorado Resort from the Steam Workshop. Great fun to pass the time. I spend WAY more hours than I should on these parks, exploring back stage areas in dark rides and what not, turning work lights / scenic lights on and off and all that. The little things eh.

1714944083233.png



Honestly I don't think it has to be one or the other, not any more, in some cases anyway. Scott O'Neil has acknowledged in a podcast something along the lines that some parks are looking tired and need investment. Alton Towers is almost certainly one of these and investment it is now getting buy quite a lot it would seem.
Click to expand...
How the heck the main tower arm crack. That's some force for that mass of steel to fail
What thay load it with lead dummy's!!!!
 
blackholes crow said:
How the heck the main tower arm crack. That's some force for that mass of steel to fail
What thay load it with lead dummy's!!!!
Click to expand...

I think the thing to note is a lot of topspin’s are quite old now. So they will have been running thousands of cycles.

The point of the bulletin is for other parks to note the failure conditions so they can check their rides against them.
 
blackholes crow said:
How the heck the main tower arm crack. That's some force for that mass of steel to fail
What thay load it with lead dummy's!!!!
Click to expand...

Well, there is quite a bit of weight in the main gondola and arms. The arms change direction quite rapidly with a lot of momentum and inertia behind it due to it's weight, that combined with the 'flipping' of the gondola mean those main support masts have to cope with large, rapidly changing and dynamic live forces from multiple directions every cycle, that is fatigues best friend right there. The angled 45 degree arms somewhat help with transferring these forces to the ground, but do not rid the ride of them.

As @Dave said this would happen over a long period of time after thousands of cycles due to the age, but due to these technical bulletins these areas would require regular inspections on all models of all ages as these are high risk areas for faults to develop. Every park will run their rides with different cycle types and operating hours so were will not be uniform, but these are known high risk areas.

Non of the following are confidential and are in the public domain so can be posted on here.

Again I must stress, these DO NOT indicate anything unsafe with the rides, almost every single ride model in existence has technical bulletins issued in their life time. They are a great tool and asset for ensuring rides always continue to operate safely by ensuring EVERY park and fairground world wide is on the same page when it comes to potential problems. These do however, highlight part of the monumental effort parks, fairgrounds, industry bodies and manufactures go to, to ensure the guests have a fun and safe time. B&M and Mack for example, two of many, very good manufacturers known for their high quality engineering, have many, many technical bulletins, completely normal stuff. I wont post too many here, but here is a little taster of the Huss Top Spin stuff.

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These are all online, for all to view if you wish, over on the ADIPS website. In the technical bulletin database which also has the technical bulletins for most other ride models for which one has been issued that is relevant to UK park operations. The website is full of great information full stop, if anyone is interested in this type of thing.
 
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30 years seems a long time for a flat ride of this type. Most parks would be lucky to get a good 20 years from something like a Topspin given the forces generated on the structure over a long period of time.

Worth nothing that manufacturing and technology has progressed since the original top spins
 
Relife said:
30 years seems a long time for a flat ride of this type. Most parks would be lucky to get a good 20 years from something like a Topspin given the forces generated on the structure over a long period of time.

Worth nothing that manufacturing and technology has progressed since the original top spins
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I am trying to work out which one it might be that was 30, as I believe it was the UK.

Construction processes have indeed improved considerably, improving relability in the process. But it is worth noting that because they do have technical bulletins issued, the specific issues generally have to be incorporated into part of the inspection routine be it weekly, anual or whatever depending on the issue, regardless of age, using up resources of the park in the process. If you do not, unless there is some exceptional valid circumstances, you would fail to get a legally binding document of operational compliance (DOC) issued, which is what allows you to operate the ride with the public on.
 
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