2026: General Discussion

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Do you have a source to back that up?

The thread began with the question "What changes do we think have occurred?", and @Hid specifically used the qualifier "might".

Asking for a cited source for a speculative opinion is rather like asking for a peer reviewed paper on why I prefer blue to green. It is a thought, not a press release.

However, if you require an evidentiary basis for the speculation, one only needs to look at the planning portal.

The full planning permission for Project Horizon was granted on 22nd June 2023. Standard planning permissions in the UK come with a condition that development must begin within three years of the date of the decision. That gives them until 22nd June 2026 to stick a spade in the ground.

@Hid is logically correct. Work on Project Horizon must begin this year (specifically within the next five months), or the planning permission lapses and they have to start the entire expensive bureaucratic circus all over again. Therefore, there is a chance, as @Hid stated, that it might happen.

No source is required. Just a calendar.

 

[Skyscraper]

The thread began with the question "What changes do we think have occurred?", and @Hid specifically used the qualifier "might".

Asking for a cited source for a speculative opinion is rather like asking for a peer reviewed paper on why I prefer blue to green. It is a thought, not a press release.

However, if you require an evidentiary basis for the speculation, one only needs to look at the planning portal.

The full planning permission for Project Horizon was granted on 22nd June 2023. Standard planning permissions in the UK come with a condition that development must begin within three years of the date of the decision. That gives them until 22nd June 2026 to stick a spade in the ground.

@Hid is logically correct. Work on Project Horizon must begin this year (specifically within the next five months), or the planning permission lapses and they have to start the entire expensive bureaucratic circus all over again. Therefore, there is a chance, as @Hid stated, that it might happen.

No source is required. Just a calendar.

My bad, it didn't read like a speculative opinion.

 

[jon81uk]

Usually when we’ve had a quieter season/cutbacks we’ve usually seen some level of refurbishment/rearranging of the deck chairs. The Towers TLC program was a big front for this to try and re-ensure consumer confidence after some devastating cuts.

I don't think this is a completly nothing season, there is the Bluey coaster. But yes hopefully they do have a big plan for 2027 or 28.

Also TLC originally was just a plan to tidy-up and restore run-down things in the first year or two, it was later on when it got hijacked as an excuse for closures.

 

[Bowser]

I'm a member of another non theme park related forum but it has general topics pop up too and there was one about Universal UK. In response the topic of Alton Towers came up and i was quite surprised how overwhelmingly negative the comments were. I don't know how representative of the "general public" that is of course.

The main gripes were "two hour queues", "too many fast passes", "terrible food" and "undertrained child staff". It does seem like the park increasingly has a very poor reputation?

 

[jon81uk]

I'm a member of another non theme park related forum but it has general topics pop up too and there was one about Universal UK. In response the topic of Alton Towers came up and i was quite surprised how overwhelmingly negative the comments were. I don't know how representative of the "general public" that is of course.

The main gripes were "two hour queues", "too many fast passes", "terrible food" and "undertrained child staff". It does seem like the park increasingly has a very poor reputation?

Alton Towers resort is 3.8/5 on TripAdvisor, which reflects similar complaints on queue times and the like.

Legoland Windsor is only on 3.2 though, largely from a terrible Christmas offering.
Chessington also 3.2, Thorpe a little better at 3.7.
Drayton Manor is 3.9, Blackpool Pleasure Beach 4.0, and Paultons 4.5.

Not a surprise Paultons is the highest rated on Tripadvisor, but also Adventure Island Southend at 4.4/5 shows that just focusing on the rides works well.
I do think its the parks with accomodation and Christmas events that have higher expectations so when it does go wrong people are disappointed.

 

[Bowser]

Alton Towers resort is 3.8/5 on TripAdvisor, which reflects similar complaints on queue times and the like.

Legoland Windsor is only on 3.2 though, largely from a terrible Christmas offering.
Chessington also 3.2, Thorpe a little better at 3.7.
Drayton Manor is 3.9, Blackpool Pleasure Beach 4.0, and Paultons 4.5.

Not a surprise Paultons is the highest rated on Tripadvisor, but also Adventure Island Southend at 4.4/5 shows that just focusing on the rides works well.
I do think its the parks with accomodation and Christmas events that have higher expectations so when it does go wrong people are disappointed.

All the theme parks have Christmas events except Thorpe/Blackpool and all have accommodation except Paultons (though it’s coming) so not sure that correlates? Bookmark to check the ratings again in 6 months time!

 

[Benzin]

Would say the expectations are a huge factor into how the parks are rated.

Given majority of people visit in school holidays where the queues are awful, Fastrack is often essential and the food is the food it's little wonder that people would think negatively of the place. I'm guessing the "undertrained child staff" is a little Boomer-esque as ride host isn't going to pay the mortgage and is an entirely different problem to solve.

Towers has marketed itself as the No. 1 UK theme park for years and the quality has declined. Its a household name nationally so the expectation is still there to have a good day. Drayton will win out with lower expectation levels and having non-ride things to do on top of it all (the quality of the zoo notwithstanding).

You get the reputation you deserve.

 

[jon81uk]

All the theme parks have Christmas events except Thorpe/Blackpool and all have accommodation except Paultons (though it’s coming) so not sure that correlates? Bookmark to check the ratings again in 6 months time!

But I think the expectation of what a Christmas at Alton Towers with a hotel stay etc is very different to an event at Adventure Island or BPB. I think that's where a lot of the recent poor scores come from you go to Alton or Legoland with a level of expectation and then if the product doesn't live up to it (even if you do receive what was promised) the review scores are low.
Paulton is (as far as can see) is meeting peoples expectations and doesn't have accommodation which is lowering the scores at Alton Towers due to poor cleaning etc.

 

[rob666]

I'm a member of another non theme park related forum but it has general topics pop up too and there was one about Universal UK. In response the topic of Alton Towers came up and i was quite surprised how overwhelmingly negative the comments were. I don't know how representative of the "general public" that is of course.

The main gripes were "two hour queues", "too many fast passes", "terrible food" and "undertrained child staff". It does seem like the park increasingly has a very poor reputation?

I have never managed to get to the Towers with my best mate and his family.
His good lady had been on a corporate do in the hotels, with two free afternoons on the park with a couple of fasttracks.
Good times until the fasttracks ran out.
"Never, ever, again. Why do people queue two hours for thirty seconds of fun? Badly managed queues full of sad looking people."
I couldn't argue of course.

 

[AltonLover123]

The main gripes were "two hour queues", "too many fast passes", "terrible food" and "undertrained child staff". It does seem like the park increasingly has a very poor reputation?

The food will most likely be better, but if they think Universal won’t have minimum two hour queues and too many fast passes they clearly haven’t been to a Universal park before. The ‘two hour queues’ won’t even be an exception to the rule. Merlin Parks generally only have queues of this length during high peak days which in the grand scheme of the season is fairly infrequent.

The average queue time for Smiler (2021-2025) stands at 49 mins. The average maximum queue time stands at 70.

If we compare that to Velocicoaster (opened in 2021 hence the same year comparisons)

Average queue time: 58 minutes.
Average maximum queue time 85 minutes.

Those number aren’t vastly different so let’s see another…

Let’s compare a family coaster, Thirteen and Hagrid’s.

Thirteens average queue time (2019-2025) stands at 41 minutes. It’s average maximum queue time stands at 66 minutes.

Hagrid’s average queue time stands at 103 minutes. Average maximum queue time stands at 148 minutes. *

Massively different. Not to mention people complain about £12 car parking at Towers, just wait to see the prices for Universal.

Universal will be incredible. There is no doubts. But the British people complaining about queues, car parking prices and fastracks are going to have a shock. Yes, the immersion and whole experience will be ‘better’ but the basics will be the same but more expensive.

Oh and as for the “undertrained child staff” have they worked at a Merlin park to understand the training involved. I also doubt Universal will pay massively more (if at all) for the same roles at a Merlin park so it will most likely be a similar range of workers.

*queue time data taken from queue.times.com

 

[Islander]

Let’s compare a family coaster, Thirteen and Hagrid’s.

Thirteens average queue time (2019-2025) stands at 41 minutes. It’s average maximum queue time stands at 66 minutes.

Hagrid’s average queue time stands at 103 minutes. Average maximum queue time stands at 148 minutes. *

This is a meaningless comparison.

One is a world-class IP, which is almost certainly the main reason the majority of visitors wish to ride it. The other is… Thirteen.

 

[AltonLover123]

This is a meaningless comparison.

One is a world-class IP, which is almost certainly the main reason the majority of visitors wish to ride it. The other is… Thirteen.

It’s not meaningless when people clearly think a long queue means a poor quality offering. Long queues can happen and indeed do and incredibly well ran parks. It is not a marker of an underperforming park.

 

[Hid]

This is a meaningless comparison.

One is a world-class IP, which is almost certainly the main reason the majority of visitors wish to ride it. The other is… Thirteen.

Th13teen is a good family coaster, high capacity and fun. And it was the first vertical freefall coaster and the introduction of the multi dimension coaster. Without Th13teen you wouldn't have Hagrids

 

[Bowser]

The food will most likely be better, but if they think Universal won’t have minimum two hour queues and too many fast passes they clearly haven’t been to a Universal park before.

They weren’t comparisons to Universal, the conversation moved on to discuss what people thought of parks in the UK, predominantly Alton Towers.

 

[AltonLover123]

They weren’t comparisons to Universal, the conversation moved on to discuss what people thought of parks in the UK, predominantly Alton Towers.

Exactly, and these people think Universal will be different.

The basics of a theme park which they think is lacklustre within the UK will be a shock to them when they realise that theme parks involve queueing (often longer than what they accustomed to), is more expensive (and they complain about what they have now) and is ran predominately by younger minimum wage staff…

 

[Bowser]

Exactly, and these people think Universal will be different.

The basics of a theme park which they think is lacklustre within the UK will be a shock to them when they realise that theme parks involve queueing (often longer than what they accustomed to), is more expensive (and they complain about what they have now) and is ran predominately by younger minimum wage staff…

I don’t know if they think that. They might well agree with you but the discussion was peoples opinions on AT, it just happened to originate in another topic.

And we don’t really know what the reality of a Universal park in the UK will look like but that’s for another thread.

 

[Mick]

Generally Alton Towers is not as bad as the worst reviews, and not as good as the best reviews. People will have their own opinions based on their personal experience and expectations going in, and people are also more likely to go online to complain than to compliment.

Actually that’s all true about everything, not just Towers.

 

[rob666]

...*queue time data taken from queue.times.com

Now there's the problem.

I have seen massive disparities between actual queuetimes, and those posted on the above site.

Some of their data is simply wrong, when viewed on the day, at the actual park.

Often.

 

[Bowser]

Now there's the problem.

I have seen massive disparities between actual queuetimes, and those posted on the above site.

Some of their data is simply wrong, when viewed on the day, at the actual park.

Often.

Indeed and queuetime site aggregates rely on the accuracy of the parks own apps etc which for many parks are borderline fantasy.

They are useful to get broad pictures and certainly some are accurate but i wouldn’t rely on them to plead my case in a direct park to park comparison without being confident of their accuracy. In the case of my personal experience, i found Universal generally overestimated queue time displays.

Merlin queue data is typically best for showing ride downtime or general crowd levels… hence why AT chose to make theirs unavailable offsite of late.