2026: General Discussion

[Mick]

This doesn't bode well for the opening (other than extra capacity of course).

Is CBeebies always this busy in February?

It’s been similar pretty much every day of this event!

I can’t remember who the content creator was, but I watched one vlog where they said that they spoken to a staff member who said they’d expected 1000 guests and they had around 5000 in.

I don’t know if it’s been a similar story at the other theme parks which have opened this week?

 

[Rob F]

I can’t remember who the content creator was, but I watched one vlog where they said that they spoken to a staff member who said they’d expected 1000 guests and they had around 5000 in.

I don’t know if it’s been a similar story at the other theme parks which have opened this week?

Lego was absolutely nuts !!!

 

[Benzin]

Yeah we've cancelled our visit on Sunday because cannot be bothered to try and deal with that nonsense.

Even Sea-Life was queuing out the door on a video I saw.

Clearly oversold the event/week.

 

[jon81uk]

Clearly oversold the event/week.

Given passholders can now come in they don't really cap the numbers like they used to when it was hotel guests only. Yes they could cap passholders being able to book, but do they actually check and enforce those bookings anyway?

I do wonder if it would be better for AT to block passholders entirely from the Feb and Christmas events and make it hotel and ticket only.

 

[rob666]

All those eighty quid passholders squeezing out the extra value wherever they can.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Given passholders can now come in they don't really cap the numbers like they used to when it was hotel guests only. Yes they could cap passholders being able to book, but do they actually check and enforce those bookings anyway?

I do wonder if it would be better for AT to block passholders entirely from the Feb and Christmas events and make it hotel and ticket only.

Contractually, they can't.

If the attraction has capacity and is open for the Casual Visitor to book a day ticket, Alton Towers can't arbitrarily decide to block valid passholders from visiting just because they would prefer the yield from a non-passholder.

Gold and Platinum passes are sold on the premise of 363+ days of entry. The only exclusions permitted in the T&Cs are for "special events" (which usually implies an upcharge, like Fireworks or Dungeon entry) or dates explicitly stated at the point of purchase. If the gates are open to the public, the gates are open to the passholder. To retroactively block them would be a breach of contract.

Considering the recent talk of Alton Towers and Merlin being DOOMED, shouldn't we be celebrating that the park is busier than expected? There are far more constructive ways to reduce queue times, which don't involve arbitrarily turning paying customers away.

 

[jon81uk]

Contractually, they can't.

If the attraction has capacity and is open for the Casual Visitor to book a day ticket, Alton Towers can't arbitrarily decide to block valid passholders from visiting just because they would prefer the yield from a non-passholder.

Gold and Platinum passes are sold on the premise of 363+ days of entry. The only exclusions permitted in the T&Cs are for "special events" (which usually implies an upcharge, like Fireworks or Dungeon entry) or dates explicitly stated at the point of purchase. If the gates are open to the public, the gates are open to the passholder. To retroactively block them would be a breach of contract.

Which is why it should have been done proactively not retrospectively? The previous tiers of passes had a lot more blockout days, it would have been quite possible to keep the silver pass and discovery pass with a block on half term and only allow platinum passholders in on these days with limited ride offerings. Instead Merlin decided to get rid of most of the blockout days and you can come most of the year for only £139.

Considering the recent talk of Alton Towers and Merlin being DOOMED, shouldn't we be celebrating that the park is busier than expected? There are far more constructive ways to reduce queue times, which don't involve arbitrarily turning paying customers away.

I agree that it is a good thing to be busy, but it would be better to be busy with day ticket or hotel customers where there is a significant income source rather than passholders. I'd expect most passholders would pay for their pass irrespective of the half-term offerings, so they are getting this week for free really. Whereas many day ticket holders would likely be put off by the poor experiance of long queues and not visit again.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

Two things can very much be true, we can be happy that other people are interested in our passion, and that somewhere we enjoy is busy. As well as sparking discussion around extra capacity within certain areas.

CBeebies has had capacity problems since it opened (largely Go Jetters, In the Night Garden and Octonauts). It needs a capacity muncher in the area so not everything will have massive queue times, regardless of crowd levels.

 

[MartyP]

It certainly seems there is a market for Feb half term visits, I was at Legoland yesterday and it was packed. It felt like Summer Holiday volumes with out the heat and that made it a great experience.

I think the problem with Towers is if you open up the thrill rides, you attract a different demographic and probably loose some of the younger families.

I completely agree the event needs to be made bigger, but I am not sure opening up Alton Manor or Sub Terror will help. Not sure that’s what the audience would want. I would have thought if David Williams World (Or its future incarnation) was open and then maybe Hex that would help, but and it’s a big but. The spread-out nature of the resort means you would need something to plug the gap between the current centre of focus, (Mutiny Bay and CBeebies Land) and the half a KM walk from Battle Galleons to David Williams Worls and Hex. Feb half term is so weather dependent as well, whilst cold this week it’s been relatively endurable. If it was frosty or snowy then the attendances would drop right off.

But all the Merlin parks will have to tackle this problem if they wish to come 365.

 

[Bowser]

It needs a capacity muncher in the area so not everything the area will have massive queue times, regardless of crowd levels.

Bluey will devour a mighty 400-500pph, problem solved.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Which is why it should have been done proactively not retrospectively? The previous tiers of passes had a lot more blockout days, it would have been quite possible to keep the silver pass and discovery pass with a block on half term and only allow platinum passholders in on these days with limited ride offerings. Instead Merlin decided to get rid of most of the blockout days and you can come most of the year for only £139.


I agree that it is a good thing to be busy, but it would be better to be busy with day ticket or hotel customers where there is a significant income source rather than passholders. I'd expect most passholders would pay for their pass irrespective of the half-term offerings, so they are getting this week for free really. Whereas many day ticket holders would likely be put off by the poor experiance of long queues and not visit again.

The current online price for a February Half Term day ticket is £18, which I feel we can all agree doesn't constitute a "significant income source". That's less than an adult seat at Pizza & Pasta.

The suggestion that a guest paying £18 for a day out is a more valuable customer than a passholder who has committed £139+ of capital upfront is a bit of an economic stretch. If anything, the passholder has already contributed significantly more to the park's cash flow than the casual visitor turning up today on a ticket that costs less than a round of drinks. To get the same yield as one passholder, the park would need to attract nearly eight separate day visitors.

If the park is overcrowded, it isn't because passholders are "squeezing value"; it's because Merlin is selling access to the resort for the price of a cinema ticket whilst keeping 90% of the attractions closed. The constructive response is to open more capacity, rather than arbitrarily barring the people who keep the lights on during the off-season.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

It certainly seems there is a market for Feb half term visits, I was at Legoland yesterday and it was packed. It felt like Summer Holiday volumes with out the heat and that made it a great experience.

I think the problem with Towers is if you open up the thrill rides, you attract a different demographic and probably loose some of the younger families.

I completely agree the event needs to be made bigger, but I am not sure opening up Alton Manor or Sub Terror will help. Not sure that’s what the audience would want. I would have thought if David Williams World (Or its future incarnation) was open and then maybe Hex that would help, but and it’s a big but. The spread-out nature of the resort means you would need something to plug the gap between the current centre of focus, (Mutiny Bay and CBeebies Land) and the half a KM walk from Battle Galleons to David Williams Worls and Hex. Feb half term is so weather dependent as well, whilst cold this week it’s been relatively endurable. If it was frosty or snowy then the attendances would drop right off.

I'm struggling to follow the economic logic which suggests a demographic paying a bargain basement £18 for a ticket needs to be "protected" from the presence of a demographic willing to pay double that in the main season. Since when did "families" become allergic to "thrill seekers"? Families visit in August when the park is full of thrill rides; they don't seem to evaporate upon sighting a teenager.

The assertion that opening indoor attractions like The Curse at Alton Manor isn't "what the audience would want" in the middle of a British February is baffling. It's 4°C and raining. What the audience wants is a roof.

The capacity issue for February half term is real, and the solution needs to be pragmatic regarding the British weather and the fact that the seasonal staff cohort hasn't fully arrived yet.

The logical solution isn't to open the whole park (which is expensive and risky), but to expand the operational footprint contiguously.

Mutiny Bay is the hub.
CBeebies Land is open.

The sensible move is to open Katanga Canyon and Gloomy Wood.

• Runaway Mine Train is a high capacity, reliable family coaster that tolerates poor weather far better than the Secret Weapons. It bridges the gap between kiddie and thrill ride.
• The Curse at Alton Manor is an indoor, high throughput transit system. It eats queues for breakfast. It provides shelter from the rain. It's physically connected to Katanga Canyon, keeping the open area contained without requiring a trek past X-Sector.

Adding just these two attractions, drastically increases the park's theoretical throughput and offers a weather resilient option, without having to staff or prep the far-flung reaches of Dark Forest or Forbidden Valley.

It also prevents the event from feeling like a rip off, without bankrupting the operational budget on a rainy Tuesday in February.

But all the Merlin parks will have to tackle this problem if they wish to come 365.

The "365 day resort" narrative is a myth that refuses to die. It stems from a single off-hand comment made by a former Divisional Director to a vlogger years ago. It has never appeared in a Merlin Annual Report, a strategic capital plan, or a shareholder presentation. Alton Towers is a landscape garden in Staffordshire, not a concrete resort in Florida. Until they build significantly more indoor infrastructure (see: the shed), 365 day operation is a pipe dream.

 

[jon81uk]

If the park is overcrowded, it isn't because passholders are "squeezing value"; it's because Merlin is selling access to the resort for the price of a cinema ticket whilst keeping 90% of the attractions closed. The constructive response is to open more capacity, rather than arbitrarily barring the people who keep the lights on during the off-season.

If "90% of the attractions are closed" then charging half the normal day ticket price seems reasonable, or are you also arguing that £27 (with a 25% off code) to £39 for a day ticket in main season is also too cheap? I'd probably say that anything under £35 is too cheap for main season, but £18 doesn't seem too low for this limited offering, the issue is if they made the half-term price higher to £25 or so then it makes main season look too cheap, all the prices need to go up.

Given they had significant issues getting rides open at half term events in the past due to cold temperatures and bad weather I don't think its an issue keeping it as a smaller-scale event, but pricing tickets appropriately and limiting the number of admissions to match the number of rides open. Prioritise hotel guests (this was a hotel only event at one point) who bring the most revenue, then day ticket holders who may come back in the main season if they have an enjoyable day. Then limit it to higher tier annual passholders, so you can deliver a great event with low waits, kind of like what Paulton are doing all year.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

If "90% of the attractions are closed" then charging half the normal day ticket price seems reasonable, or are you also arguing that £27 (with a 25% off code) to £39 for a day ticket in main season is also too cheap? I'd probably say that anything under £35 is too cheap for main season, but £18 doesn't seem too low for this limited offering, the issue is if they made the half-term price higher to £25 or so then it makes main season look too cheap, all the prices need to go up.

Given they had significant issues getting rides open at half term events in the past due to cold temperatures and bad weather I don't think its an issue keeping it as a smaller-scale event, but pricing tickets appropriately and limiting the number of admissions to match the number of rides open. Prioritise hotel guests (this was a hotel only event at one point) who bring the most revenue, then day ticket holders who may come back in the main season if they have an enjoyable day. Then limit it to higher tier annual passholders, so you can deliver a great event with low waits, kind of like what Paulton are doing all year.

We are dangerously off topic, so this is the last I shall say on the matter.

Acknowledging the invocation of Goose's Law, the comparison to Paultons Park defeats your own argument. Paultons Park doesn't have on site accommodation, so they can't prioritise a hotel guest who does not exist. Paultons also don't block their annual pass holders from visiting during their operating calendar to "prioritise" day tickets. They manage capacity by having enough attractions open to service the demand, not by arbitrarily barring their most loyal customers at the turnstile.

Your economic logic regarding the exclusion of passholders relies entirely on the presumption that there is a limitless supply of families waiting to pay £18 to visit a mostly closed theme park in February.

If you ban the passholders (who, let's be honest, likely make up the vast majority of the gate for a niche off season event like this), you aren't left with a "great event with low waits". You're instead left with an empty park burning money on staffing costs, whilst Aramark staff stare at tumbleweeds. You need bodies in the park to drive secondary spend on coffee, food and merchandise. A passholder buying a coffee is worth more than an empty space where a day ticket holder might have stood.

The £18 fee for this event is a flat rate. There are no 2 for 1 vouchers, no online advance discounts. It's just £18. Is £27 for a main season ticket (via the usual discount methods) too cheap? Absolutely. I have argued that for years. But claiming that an £18 ticket is "significant income" that justifies alienating your entire membership base is a stretch.

The solution to a busy park isn't to remove the guests, it's to increase the capacity.

 

[AT86]

The other side of the coin here is that £18 (and free parking I believe?) per ticket is a significant saving over the main season price - and for those that have children of an age where they would spend the vast majority of the time in CBeebies anyway - means a huge saving.

Go in Feb half term and it’s £18pp
Go in the Easter holidays and it’s £39pp plus £12 to park.

All to benefit from a similar, if not the same number of attractions.

If they start opening more of the park, and therefore increasing the ticket price to adjust for higher running costs - all of a sudden one of the key things drawing people to visit at this time of year reduces or evaporates.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

The other side of the coin here is that £18 (and free parking I believe?) per ticket is a significant saving over the main season price - and for those that have children of an age where they would spend the vast majority of the time in CBeebies anyway - means a huge saving.

Go in Feb half term and it’s £18pp
Go in the Easter holidays and it’s £39pp plus £12 to park.

All to benefit from a similar, if not the same number of attractions.

If they start opening more of the park, and therefore increasing the ticket price to adjust for higher running costs - all of a sudden one of the key things drawing people to visit at this time of year reduces or evaporates.

You make a valid point regarding the value proposition for families with exclusively pre-school aged children. For that specific demographic, the February offering is essentially the same product they would get in August, but at a fraction of the cost. It's an undeniable bargain.

However, the issue we are seeing this week, with reports of unexpected crowds and significant queues for minor attractions, suggests that the balance between price and capacity is currently off.

If the event is consistently hitting capacity or resulting in poor guest satisfaction due to overcrowding, the model isn't quite working as intended. The "cheap" day out loses its shine if you spend the majority of it standing in a queue for Peter Rabbit Hippity Hop

Opening Katanga Canyon (for Runaway Mine Train) and Gloomy Wood (for The Curse at Alton Manor) wouldn't necessarily require a hike to main season prices. The marginal operational cost of staffing those two specific rides, and the single pathway connecting them, is relatively low in the grand scheme of the resort's overheads.

It would, however, act as a pressure valve. It would disperse the crowds out of the CBeebies / Mutiny Bay bottleneck and offer something for the slightly older siblings (or parents) who have outgrown In the Night Garden.

You could arguably keep the price at £18 (or a nominal increase to £20/£22) and absorb the staffing cost as an investment in guest satisfaction and secondary spend. A family that isn't stuck in a 40 minute queue is a family that has time to buy lunch, coffees and merchandise.

 

[Danscott22]

Just regarding Spinball Whizzer, it doesn't seem to be temperature related. Was running tests on Saturday and there's been quite a lot of activity on of the mid course brake runs, so it seems it's a technical problem. Encouraging signs for the season ahead.

 

[Benzin]

Does look like it appeared to be similarly busy last year as well based on Queue-Times. Don't recall much reaction to it mind though currently are down 3 rides in the line up due to 2 being broken and 1 being removed.

Clearly demand is there. But does the park have the appetite or capability to get more rides ready for such a time?

 

[That Guy]

Last year they heavily capped day tickets/pass holder bookings and the queues were still not short. Many people complained on Facebook about not being able to get a reservation.

Did they make the cap higher this year? Given they capped last year it can't have been a surprise that there was demand.

 

[jon81uk]

Acknowledging the invocation of Goose's Law, the comparison to Paultons Park defeats your own argument. Paultons Park doesn't have on site accommodation, so they can't prioritise a hotel guest who does not exist. Paultons also don't block their annual pass holders from visiting during their operating calendar to "prioritise" day tickets. They manage capacity by having enough attractions open to service the demand, not by arbitrarily barring their most loyal customers at the turnstile.

Paultons barrier to annual pass ownership is the overall fee for the pass coupled with restrictions on entry, their cheapest pass is £172, so £43 more than Merlin but for a single park and you won't get entry this week for that price, need the £290 premium pass for entry at half term. They are barring their most loyal customers for visiting this week, unless they pay £118 more a year for a higher tier of pass. Paulton are charging the full day price of £46.75 but 90% rides are open. They price their pass much higher than Merlin to keep visitor numbers in line with capacity.

Your economic logic regarding the exclusion of passholders relies entirely on the presumption that there is a limitless supply of families waiting to pay £18 to visit a mostly closed theme park in February.

Again, they used to only open for hotel guests at Half-term, therefore day tickets I think are more of a bonus to the park. But a hotel guest who has a great visit will come back and spend again on another ticket.

If you ban the passholders (who, let's be honest, likely make up the vast majority of the gate for a niche off season event like this), you aren't left with a "great event with low waits". You're instead left with an empty park burning money on staffing costs, whilst Aramark staff stare at tumbleweeds. You need bodies in the park to drive secondary spend on coffee, food and merchandise. A passholder buying a coffee is worth more than an empty space where a day ticket holder might have stood.

You open the right number of outlets based on the expected number of guests coming, so if its a limited capacity event then you don't expect to need to open all outlets on park leaving Aramark staff staring at tumbleweeds. You match the offering to the number of rides open and guests expected.

The solution to a busy park isn't to remove the guests, it's to increase the capacity.

Again, you match the number of guests to the available ride capcity. Ideally yes they would get more of the park open, with maintenance done, but depending on the weather this may not be possible. So you ensure you only sell enough tickets