2026: General Discussion

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I feel as though I'm watching a tennis match where both players have decided to dismantle the net and start playing badminton instead. We're shifting the goalposts so fast I am getting whiplash.

Its both. The park does technically “sell out” yet the guest experience remains high and to get us back on topic, even then the queue times will be nothing like seen at Merlin parks on days that are simply peak rather than sell out.

AT looks grim again today with queues for rides aimed at toddlers hitting 75 minutes.

You can't claim that Paultons Park relies on a "sell out" capacity cap to maintain experience whilst simultaneously arguing that it is the high price point that organically controls the numbers.

The fact that I can buy a ticket for Paultons Park right now for today, tomorrow, or Saturday suggests that the "cap" hasn't been hit. Therefore, the pleasant environment isn't due to an artificial restriction on entry; it's because they have correctly balanced Price (£46) with Supply (90% of the park open).

Yep Paulton's might charge £46 for entry but Alton Towers its £30+ for entry and then you will likely want to spend £35+ on Fasttrack due to the queues.

You've completely abandoned the premise of the discussion, which was regarding the February Half Term event and your wish for an artificial cap / initially a ban on all passholders.

We're not talking about the main season where tickets are £30+ and you have to pay for parking. We're talking about this week, where tickets are £18, and parking is free.

The issue at Alton Towers right now is not that people need Fastrack (which shouldn't be necessary at an off season event); it's that Merlin has priced the event at a bargain basement level (£18) to drive volume, but has failed to provide the necessary capacity (Supply) to handle that volume... which is frustratingly familiar.

Paultons Park works because they charge a premium price for a premium (full park) product.

Alton Towers is currently struggling this week because they're charging a budget price for a sub-budget product (Mutiny Bay & CBeebies Land only), and are surprised when the demand outstrips the pitiful supply.

The solution isn't to ban passholders or pretend that Paultons Park is magic. It's to either:

A) Increase the price to dampen demand (Paultons Park's model).
B) Increase the ride availability to absorb the demand (Common Sense model).

You can't have a £18 ticket, a tiny ride lineup and a good guest experience all at once. The maths doesn't work.

 

[Squiggs]

The solution isn't to ban passholders or pretend that Paultons Park is magic. It's to either:

A) Increase the price to dampen demand (Paultons Park's model).
B) Increase the ride availability to absorb the demand (Common Sense model).

I think it is perfectly fine to identify both of these models as common sense.

They are just common sense within very different business models (and arguably two business models, neither of which Merlin is currently using).

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I think it is perfectly fine to identify both of these models as common sense.

They are just common sense within very different business models (and arguably two business models, neither of which Merlin is currently using).

I concede that my labelling conventions may have been open to interpretation.

I designated Option B as the "Common Sense" model specifically to contrast it against the previously suggested alternative of arbitrarily banning Annual Passholders from the event, a strategy I consider to be the "Nonsense Model".

You're absolutely correct, however, that Merlin is currently failing to adopt either of the functional strategies, which is why I suggested them as solutions to the problem...

 

[jon81uk]

arbitrarily banning Annual Passholders from the event, a strategy I consider to be the "Nonsense Model".

Do you see all blackout dates as arbitrary bans? Is the fact gold & essential passes can't go to the fireworks arbitrary? Or that essential passes can't visit in October half term? most of the current blackout dates seem pretty considered and I don't see why you find the idea of adding February half term to the blockout dates, which is a lower capacity event compared to scarefest so offensive.
(yes at one point I may have mentioned just "blocking passholders" but more pragmatically under the current tiers as only the essential pass really has blackout dates it would only be that one excluded. On the older tiers last year then discovery, silver and maybe gold would have been blocked).

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Do you see all blackout dates as arbitrary bans? Is the fact gold & essential passes can't go to the fireworks arbitrary? Or that essential passes can't visit in October half term? most of the current blackout dates seem pretty considered and I don't see why you find the idea of adding February half term to the blockout dates, which is a lower capacity event compared to scarefest so offensive.
(yes at one point I may have mentioned just "blocking passholders" but more pragmatically under the current tiers as only the essential pass really has blackout dates it would only be that one excluded. On the older tiers last year then discovery, silver and maybe gold would have been blocked).

You're attempting to pluck feathers where there are none.

To clarify for the final time: I have consistently been responding specifically to your initial, explicit suggestion that it might be better to "block passholders entirely" from the event. You've since walked that back to a more pragmatic exclusion of lower tier passes, which is a different conversation, but let's deal with the logic of blackouts.

Blackout dates (like Fireworks or Halloween) exist to manage capacity on days where the demand is astronomical and the product is premium. The park blocks passholders to force them to pay an upcharge, or buy a higher tier pass, because the event has a high intrinsic value.

The February Half Term event is, by definition, a sub-standard offering. It's a limited selection of rides, in the worst weather of the year, sold at a bargain basement price of £18.

Blocking Platinum or Gold Passholders, who have paid hundreds of pounds for "unrestricted" access, from a low value, off season event is commercially illiterate. You don't tell your highest paying customers they can't come in on the quietest, cheapest days of the year. That devalues the premium product.

Comparing the exclusion of passes for the Fireworks Spectacular (a high demand, high cost production) to excluding them for a wet Tuesday in February where only Marauders Mayhem is running is a false equivalence.

I feel we're very much now circling the drain of this particular topic. The event is under capacitated for the demand; the solution is to open more rides, not ban the customers.

 

[jon81uk]

I have consistently been responding specifically to your initial, explicit suggestion that it might be better to "block passholders entirely" from the event. You've since walked that back to a more pragmatic exclusion of lower tier passes, which is a different conversation, but let's deal with the logic of blackouts

I made one post that mentioned "I do wonder if it would be better for AT to block passholders.." and then multiple further posts which refeerence blocking tiers of passes or utilising blockout dates.

Blackout dates (like Fireworks or Halloween) exist to manage capacity on days where the demand is astronomical and the product is premium. The park blocks passholders to force them to pay an upcharge, or buy a higher tier pass, because the event has a high intrinsic value.

I would argue that the Pirate Takeover is a premium event, with additional live entertainment and trasure hunts not offered in the main season. Alton Towers market it as a special event in a similar way to Scarefest and other events with additional entertainment. It is also a low capacity event, this topic came about as the park is busier than expected. Also although the price is lower than the main season, it is still not "cheap", its roughly half price for less than half the park, day guests are paying a slight premium for a smaller event.
But as noted previously, many guests with younger children probably welcome having a premium event with extra theming and a small selection of rides for younger families to enjoy at a slightly lower price than main season. As someone else said, if your children are too small for Runaway Mine Train and Wickerman then its perfect just paying £18 for a small scale event tailored for them.

So either keep it as a premium event with additional entertainment tailored at families with younger children and ban selected passholders to enable those paying for higher priced passes to have a good day. or as you suggest completely change the event, increase the price and make it not about younger childrens rides at all.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I made one post that mentioned "I do wonder if it would be better for AT to block passholders.." and then multiple further posts which refeerence blocking tiers of passes or utilising blockout dates.


I would argue that the Pirate Takeover is a premium event, with additional live entertainment and trasure hunts not offered in the main season. Alton Towers market it as a special event in a similar way to Scarefest and other events with additional entertainment. It is also a low capacity event, this topic came about as the park is busier than expected. Also although the price is lower than the main season, it is still not "cheap", its roughly half price for less than half the park, day guests are paying a slight premium for a smaller event.
But as noted previously, many guests with younger children probably welcome having a premium event with extra theming and a small selection of rides for younger families to enjoy at a slightly lower price than main season. As someone else said, if your children are too small for Runaway Mine Train and Wickerman then its perfect just paying £18 for a small scale event tailored for them.

So either keep it as a premium event with additional entertainment tailored at families with younger children and ban selected passholders to enable those paying for higher priced passes to have a good day. or as you suggest completely change the event, increase the price and make it not about younger childrens rides at all.

We're now arguing over the definition of economic reality.

Claiming that a ticket advertised and sold for £18 constitutes a "premium event" when the standard gate price for the resort is advertised at £68 requires a level of creative accounting that would make the Enron executive board blush.

We ought compare like for like. The Reference Price for Alton Towers is £68. It doesn't matter if no one actually pays that price, that's value they believe their full offering is worth and advertise it as. An £18 ticket represents a 73% discount on the standard admission fee. Even if you compare it to the typical online advance rate of ~£35, it's roughly half price.

You're also forgetting that for this specific event, the £12 car parking charge is waived. For a family arriving in a car, that £18 ticket effectively includes a £12 perk for free. That's a bargain basement yield management strategy designed to get bodies through the door when the big rides are shut, not a premium pricing strategy.

Defining an event as premium because it includes a "treasure hunt" and a few roaming actors in Mutiny Bay is stretching the definition to breaking point.

• Scarefest is a premium event: Extended hours, night riding, extensive lighting rigs, multiple high-production scare mazes.
• Fireworks is a premium event: Massive pyrotechnic display, extended hours.
• Pirate Takeover is a value event: Reduced hours, reduced lineup, reduced price.

The logic that you must ban passholders to protect the experience of the £18 guest relies on the false dichotomy that the only solution is subtraction.

My suggestion, opening Runaway Mine Train and The Curse at Alton Manor, does not "completely change the event" or make it "not about younger children". Both are family friendly attractions. Curse is a dark ride. RMT is the definitive first family coaster.

Adding capacity to absorb the crowd protects the experience for everyone, the toddler meeting Captain Barnacles and the passholder buying a coffee. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[Dave]

Mine train wouldn’t have operated so far this year as it’s too cold.

 

[Mick]

Next week is looking like 10-15 degrees quite consistently. By which time half term is over and the kids are back in school.

You can plan for some things, but other things are just in the lap of the gods.

 

[Bowser]

Mine train wouldn’t have operated so far this year as it’s too cold.

Surely a powered mine train can operate at 5-7C?

 

[Dave]

Surely a powered mine train can operate at 5-7C?

mine train has its power and other connectors on top of the track which allows water to pool in the grooves and freeze. Later models of the Mack powered coasters have the pickups upside down under the track so water can’t pool in them.

This week temperatures haven’t often got above 5 degrees at Towers.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Mine train wouldn’t have operated so far this year as it’s too cold.

Hindsight is 20-20. Spinball Whizzer also hasn't been running all week, as originally intended, putting further strain on attractions which are open.

The solution still isn't to ban customers who have already paid.

 

[Dave]

Hindsight is 20-20. Spinball Whizzer also hasn't been running all week, as originally intended, putting further strain on attractions which are open.

The solution still isn't to ban customers who have already paid.

I wasn’t getting into the debate about banning customers, just pointing out the technical limitations of mine train.

Wickerman would be more practical to open in February, wooden coasters are more robust in low temperatures with the proper preparation.

 

[MrCoaster]

I would argue that the Pirate Takeover is a premium event, with additional live entertainment and trasure hunts not offered in the main season.

Perhaps so, yet you have to remember the fact that anything for fans of thrills over the age of, what, 10 has nothing really to satisfy them.

Yes, you have everything extra, but you also have half the park shut!