[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved

[AT86]

As of 31st March the council discharged the planning conditions that the park made an application for back in December. Specifically conditions 13 A and B, and 19.

It appears condition 13 C still needs to be discharged, with the documents saying "The agent has confirmed that part c of the condition (a Verification Report) will be submitted at a later date and prior to occupation to provide a complete record of the works that have been carried out on the site".

Obviously this is all very dry and bureaucratic - but the takeaway is that the project appears to be moving forward, albeit slowly.

http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=384216

 

[Secret Weapon]

I'm not sure what to make of the link between Toxicator and Project Horizon (if a link exists at all)

Did Alton Towers build Toxicator with the cash freed up from the cancellation of (or delay to) Project Horizon?

Or is the opposite true, and they never would have built Toxicator unless they were confident that they also had enough money for the more important Project Horizon as well?

Or was the plan always to build both rides, and thus one has nothing to do with the other?

 

[Bert2theSpark]

As of 31st March the council discharged the planning conditions that the park made an application for back in December. Specifically conditions 13 A and B, and 19.

It appears condition 13 C still needs to be discharged, with the documents saying "The agent has confirmed that part c of the condition (a Verification Report) will be submitted at a later date and prior to occupation to provide a complete record of the works that have been carried out on the site".

Obviously this is all very dry and bureaucratic - but the takeaway is that the project appears to be moving forward, albeit slowly.

http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=384216

So there must have been some type of change behind the scenes, whether the project had been re-envisioned or funding pot changed with promise of another pot coming along. Merlin and Towers are each respectively on their third set of leadership since planning was submitted, so there must be something really compelling about Project Horizon.

Glad to see it’s very much still on the cards, although I feel like it’s come at a point where it might be too late for one new area alone to ignite a revival of the park.

 

[JAperson]

Or was the plan always to build both rides, and thus one has nothing to do with the other?

I imagine they were going to do both anyway, Toxicator is part of a reimagined version of a classic forbidden valley, which obviously used to have Ripsaw.

 

[Matt N]

I would not be enormously surprised if the proposed Horizon building has always been planned, but the attraction inside the building has been retooled or perhaps even completely replaced.

It's worth remembering that all we ever explicitly knew about Horizon as an attraction was that the park was planning to build a 65ft tall building to house it. The details given in the planning application are vague enough that the park could quite easily have totally changed the attraction inside provided the footprint of the building has remained the same.

Seeing as nearly 4 years have passed since the initial planning application and management has changed quite markedly at both Alton level and Merlin level in that time period, I'd be very surprised if the Horizon currently being discussed is exactly the same as the Horizon that was announced back in 2022.

 

[JAperson]

I would not be enormously surprised if the proposed Horizon building has always been planned, but the attraction inside the building has been retooled or perhaps even completely replaced.

It's worth remembering that all we ever explicitly knew about Horizon as an attraction was that the park was planning to build a 65ft tall building to house it. The details given in the planning application are vague enough that the park could quite easily have totally changed the attraction inside provided the footprint of the building has remained the same.

I do think they've probably redesigned the whole concept, to adjust to new realities and costings. It's obvious its been delayed. Whether they still plan to use the same ride system, which we know was going to be a coaster of some form, is obviously unknown but I would guess whatever ride system was planned has probably been kept.
I do think we will see a coaster in the building, I just think Towers aren't in any rush to actually build it, and it's for that reason I am really unsure when we might actually see this finished. As long as they keep discharging these conditions, and eventually start building they can take as long as they want can't they?

 

[AT86]

As long as they keep discharging these conditions, and eventually start building they can take as long as they want can't they?

I believe they need to make a start before summer this year in order to keep this planning app valid.

Given the large investment going to Chessington in 2027, Lego likely in 2029 with the rapids replacement I wouldn’t be surprised if Horizon is planned for 2028.

 

[JAperson]

I believe they need to make a start before summer this year in order to keep this planning app valid.

Given the large investment going to Chessington in 2027, Lego likely in 2029 with the rapids replacement I wouldn’t be surprised if Horizon is planned for 2028.

Yeah that sounds about right, I certainly don't expect it to clash with Chessington's frankly vitally important Minecraft investment, I expect Merlin to add basically nothing to other UK parks in 2027 in order for that to be promoted to the absolute max. 2028 is certainly a possibility, but it could be in the same year as Lego, or even possibly in 2030. Honestly, it's really hard to tell what their actual long term plan is now, it was only a few years back it was quite clear how they were heading investment wise, but now I feel like its really unknown, and I would expect a lot of plans to have changed.

 

[BarryZola]

The planning application was put in towards the end of 2022 and permission granted in Feb 2023. You'd assume that management had been working on the project for a while, maybe during 2020/2021?

Bianca started around Feb 2023 with the previous management at Towers going, then we basically never heard anything about it again. I know that the higher ups at Merlin would have to sign all these large projects off, but I don't think that the change of management at Towers and nothing happening with Horizon since is a total co-incidence. I'd guess that there was a re-think on strategy after Bianca did her appraisal of the resort after joining. Total speculation on my part though.

 

[AT86]

The planning application was put in towards the end of 2022 and permission granted in Feb 2023. You'd assume that management had been working on the project for a while, maybe during 2020/2021?

Bianca started around Feb 2023 with the previous management at Towers going, then we basically never heard anything about it again. I know that the higher ups at Merlin would have to sign all these large projects off, but I don't think that the change of management at Towers and nothing happening with Horizon since is a total co-incidence. I'd guess that there was a re-think on strategy after Bianca did her appraisal of the resort after joining. Total speculation on my part though.

The other change that I believe has happened during this time is the role of a park divisional director / vice president, specifically the involvement of the park in driving the new attractions added to their park.

My understanding is that during the Varney era the park management would be involved in advising MMM what type of attraction they were looking for and which demographic it was to be aimed at and then the two parts of the business worked closely to refine the details etc. This still needed sign off by the Merlin board before anything was built - but the park was very involved.

I think things are far more centrally managed now and Merlin drive the decisions into what the parks get in terms of new attractions.

I think Horizon was one of those investments that was approved but hadn’t started work during all this change, so could well have been held up whilst they restructured how the business worked.

Essentially there has been so much change within Merlin between them applying for this planning permission and now, that it is difficult to unpick the reasons for so much time passing.

 

[Mick]

I and I assume none of us would have any real insight into the inner thoughts and workings of Corporate Merlin, but would Howard Ebison really have swapped Chessington for Alton Towers at an exciting time in Chessington’s journey, for literally nothing at Alton Towers? There must still be big plans, otherwise it’s at best a sideways step.

 

[AT86]

I and I assume none of us would have any real insight into the inner thoughts and workings of Corporate Merlin, but would Howard Ebison really have swapped Chessington for Alton Towers at an exciting time in Chessington’s journey, for literally nothing at Alton Towers? There must still be big plans, otherwise it’s at best a sideways step.

Alton Towers employ c1000 more people than Chessington in peak season, has c500 more hotel rooms and also has the Waterpark, golf and conference facilities, it’s certainly a step up career wise vs managing Chessington.

 

[Poisson]

Towers also has more prestige, despite being run into the ground.

With Horizon, I think a large gap was potentially in the plans as they expected them to get rejected and have to fight for them. They've had issues up that way before and it would have been prudent to build time in for planning shenanigans. Probably doesn't explain all the gap, but may explain some of it.

 

[Hid]

Maybe for next season they could do somethinf with Dungeons building since it would not take mucj to refurbish that building and for it to be converted into something elss.

Then Horizon year after

 

[Ash]

The part I really really struggle to believe, is given all of Alton’s planning constraints, challenges with locals etc. To get a building, that big, in that location, that close to the flag tower, on (in recent times) unused land, with sight lines that would certainly make it partially visibly locally. I can’t for the life of me believe they would ever let that planning lapse. I really can’t.

I’m no planning expert so whether the fact it’s been approved once secures it for the foreseeable. But I can’t help but notice the overwhelming investment in Chessington and Legoland and see Alton limping along with absurd queues, SBNO transport, a temporary entrance plaza and poor ride mix.

Meanwhile Legoland are rebuilding an adequate 4D cinema and improving their entrance.

I just keep thinking is 2028 when the Walliams license goes and they can throw a huge IP at the lot? (Burger Kitchen, 4D Cinema, Nick OOC, Dungeons, GG, Driving School and PH)

Something isn’t right

 

[Secret Weapon]

This has probably been answered before, but can Alton Towers temporarily put a basic flat ride, arcade game, or museum / toilet block inside the Project Horizon building (in order to get the building physically built before the planning permission lapses), until they save up enough money to put the rollercoaster itself in there afterwards?

Or is the planning permission only granted if they specifically build a rollercoaster?

(I think I heard that the Hex building can only be used for Hex and no other ride afterwards, but I may be wrong)

P.S. I am surprised that the council is so strict; if I was in charge, then I would probably more or less allow Alton Towers to build whatever they want, as long as they don't disturb the neighbours or damage any of the existing buildings

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

This has probably been answered before, but can Alton Towers temporarily put a basic flat ride, arcade game, or museum / toilet block inside the Project Horizon building (in order to get the building physically built before the planning permission lapses), until they save up enough money to put the rollercoaster itself in there afterwards?

Or is the planning permission only granted if they specifically build a rollercoaster?

In order to prevent planning permission from lapsing, a developer doesn't need to construct the entire building and fill it with an arcade, a flat ride, or an Aramark hot dog stand. They simply need to make a "material start" on the development before the expiry date (which, for Project Horizon, is 21st June 2026).

A material start can be as minimal as digging a trench for a foundation, laying an underground pipe, or pouring a single concrete footer. Once work has begun, and the council signs it off, the planning permission is essentially banked in perpetuity. They could leave it as a muddy hole for a decade if they wanted to.

Planning permission is granted for the structure and its use class. From a purely planning perspective, the council doesn't care whether the inside of the acoustic shed houses an Intamin multi dimension coaster, a temporary waltzer, or a very large, heavily themed toilet block, provided the exterior matches the approved plans, the use class remains appropriate for a theme park, and the noise emissions don't breach the agreed acoustic envelope.

P.S. I am surprised that the council is so strict; if I was in charge, then I would probably more or less allow Alton Towers to build whatever they want, as long as they don't disturb the neighbours or damage any of the existing buildings

Alton Towers is s a historically significant, protected 19th century landscape garden situated adjacent to a quiet rural village. The council is strict because they have a statutory duty to protect that heritage, manage the local road infrastructure, and protect the villagers. We only need to look back at the Roper noise abatement lawsuits of the early 2000s to see exactly what happens when the park's ambitions clash with the reality of their location.

The planning laws exist precisely to stop multi national private equity firms from building 300ft drop towers next to gothic ruins and deafening the locals.

 

[flyingguitar]

The part I really really struggle to believe, is given all of Alton’s planning constraints, challenges with locals etc. To get a building, that big, in that location, that close to the flag tower, on (in recent times) unused land, with sight lines that would certainly make it partially visibly locally. I can’t for the life of me believe they would ever let that planning lapse. I really can’t.

I’m no planning expert so whether the fact it’s been approved once secures it for the foreseeable. But I can’t help but notice the overwhelming investment in Chessington and Legoland and see Alton limping along with absurd queues, SBNO transport, a temporary entrance plaza and poor ride mix.

Meanwhile Legoland are rebuilding an adequate 4D cinema and improving their entrance.

I just keep thinking is 2028 when the Walliams license goes and they can throw a huge IP at the lot? (Burger Kitchen, 4D Cinema, Nick OOC, Dungeons, GG, Driving School and PH)

Something isn’t right

from my understanding the planning end date (I can't recall the date) is that they have to meaningfully start construction by that date, not finish it so in reality they have had a couple years to start.

To me it isn't that unusual, the project has been delayed for some reason, I think it may be the bluey coaster, as rarther than have a few big rides opening close together, they can spread out the new for X year over a few years. (if some deal was made with the manufacture to get new kiddie coasters in legoland, chesington and AT)

I could definatly see them retheming the williams land with project horizon (depending on when the license runs out)

This has probably been answered before, but can Alton Towers temporarily put a basic flat ride, arcade game, or museum / toilet block inside the Project Horizon building (in order to get the building physically built before the planning permission lapses), until they save up enough money to put the rollercoaster itself in there afterwards?

Or is the planning permission only granted if they specifically build a rollercoaster?

(I think I heard that the Hex building can only be used for Hex and no other ride afterwards, but I may be wrong)

P.S. I am surprised that the council is so strict; if I was in charge, then I would probably more or less allow Alton Towers to build whatever they want, as long as they don't disturb the neighbours or damage any of the existing buildings

The Hex I believe is kinda true, but less the building and more the whole modification of the towers from what I recall the permissions is only this ride (hex) can exist in the towers, once hex closes, all the modifications to the towers done for hex must be undone.

as for placing another ride inside, they could however indoor coasters are often built and then the building is built around them (for many reasons such as better access for cranes preventing an indoor crane being required)

 

[BennyBoy]

Pretty sure they are waiting till Walliams has expired, and re-doing the whole area, probably with another IP.
But it's not Walliams is an old area, only opened in 2021 so maybe it's got longer left than we think? Hence Horizon was meant to be it's own thing. But because it's been so long now, they could be potentially considering a whole area retheme. I hope so anyway.

We should see some groundwork soon by the sounds of it if this project is going ahead.

 

[Bowser]

We should see some groundwork soon by the sounds of it if this project is going ahead.

My instinct is the groundwork will take place solely to preserve the planning application as opposed to indicating actual construction of the ride is beginning.

Also as i believe the ride will be a near clone of the Minecraft coaster, i wonder if they will need to wait for some of that team to finish before they begin, meaning construction won’t start till at least 2027.

Though i still struggle to see the current regime dropping the £20m+ such a ride will require…