[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved

[BennyBoy]

Do we think an Intamin multi dimension coaster is possible with the total budget at £12.5 million?

 

[Dave]

Do we think an Intamin multi dimension coaster is possible with the total budget at £12.5 million?

Depends how you define budget.

The idea that the Minecraft project is costing £50 million on hardware is nonsense. A lot of that quoted figure is likely the global IP cost. Hardware will be much lower.

In the planning docs for Horizon I suspect they were quoting hardware costs, that said it’s been a few years so inflation will likely push the budget up a bit.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Let's not forget that even in the short time since Horizon was announced to now construction costs have gone up so more than likely £12 million figure has gone up a bit too.

 

[Matt N]

That’s also before we bring in the possibility I mentioned earlier that the ride inside the building could have completely changed since we first saw the plans in 2022.

That would almost certainly change the cost!

 

[Dave]

That’s also before we bring in the possibility I mentioned earlier that the ride inside the building could have completely changed since we first saw the plans in 2022.

That would almost certainly change the cost!

I’m not 100% certain they knew what rollercoaster they were putting in back in 2022. I have two thoughts on the whole project (just thoughts not definites).

1) They thought planning permission would take longer to get, I reckon they thought they would have a battle so just bid for as big a metal box as they thought they might get away with. So I don’t think we can take any clues from the plans as to the coasters layout.

2) 3 leadership changes has created havoc with the actual project. Plus latest Merlin management don’t seem to have much of a strategy for Towers. They seem much more focused on Chessington.

 

[Jb85]

I agree with you @Dave
My genuine feeling is they are yet to or are working on a long term plan for AT
So much hardware is at an age where it may need refurbishing or replacing, alongside new ride requirement

A lot to do and plan for

Or maybe they’ve just thought sod it kets let’s let it rot

 

[s_g_k]

There’s definitely a huge amount of work needed at the park, both to improve and maintain existing attractions whilst also investing in exciting new projects. As a minimum, I’d say the below needs to happen within a 5 year window:

Monorail future-proofing
Skyride future-proofing
Galactica throughput improvements (2 stations)
Oblivion throughput improvements (2 stations with more than 4 shuttles)
Spinball throughput improvements (get a few more cars back in operation)
3 x family thrill flats
Project Horizon, tied in with a Walliams World and dungeons retheme

Alton is Merlin’s most profitable U.K. park, however it seems those profits are being diverted to their southern parks to ensure they’re up to scratch for when Universal opens. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alton is next for some investment, now that things are confirmed and happening in their southern parks which will arguably be more at risk when Universal opens.

Bit of a tangent, but Alton is truly unique from other U.K. parks in that it has so much history, a world class setting and a history of powerful unique themes, my favourite being Hex. Bring this magic back please Merlin!

 

[flyingguitar]

There’s definitely a huge amount of work needed at the park, both to improve and maintain existing attractions whilst also investing in exciting new projects. As a minimum, I’d say the below needs to happen within a 5 year window:

most of these have happened though:

Skyride future-proofing

Done when they refurbished the whole system a couple of years ago

Galactica throughput improvements (2 stations)
Oblivion throughput improvements (2 stations with more than 4 shuttles)
Spinball throughput improvements (get a few more cars back in operation)

these happen each year, normally during peak summer and into scarefest, but when it isn't they operate with less to reduce staffing and costs

with oblivion it can't really opperate efficiently now so it isn't that good to go over like 4 or 6 cars as it needs to have its station reworked (either a bag bay or go floorless) as a lot of the lost time is because people have to get across the train (pushing past people) to place their bag, then get back along the train to sit down (I think I times a couple dispatches last year, and found that like 60-70% of the time instation was waiting for people to stop messing with their bags.

3 x family thrill flats
Project Horizon, tied in with a Walliams World and dungeons retheme

Monorail future-proofing

These do need to happen, hopefully they will as we have seen refurbishment work on other rides (hex, skyride, etc) and the planning permission is progressing

 

[Benjsh]

Alton is Merlin’s most profitable U.K. park, however it seems those profits are being diverted to their southern parks to ensure they’re up to scratch for when Universal opens. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alton is next for some investment, now that things are confirmed and happening in their southern parks which will arguably be more at risk when Universal opens

I dont know how many more times this needs to be pointed on here but Merlin have invested a lot of money into Towers over the last 5 years. More than what Thorpe Park has had.

The problem you and many others are having is failing to grasp that the Nemesis rebuild came at the cost of a new coaster essentially. You look at Hyperia as an investment into Thorpe Park but you dont see Nemmy the same way because its not new. However in real terms its still costing the park millions.

Add on the Sky Ride investment, Toxicator, Alton Manor and Cbeebies improvements including a brand new coaster.....I fail to see how Merlin can be accused of not investing.

There isnt a bottomless pit of money.

 

[Secret Weapon]

The problem you and many others are having is failing to grasp that the Nemesis rebuild came at the cost of a new coaster essentially. You look at Hyperia as an investment into Thorpe Park but you dont see Nemmy the same way because its not new. However in real terms its still costing the park millions.

I think this is why Merlin were reluctant to pay for Nemesis Reborn in the first place: they (correctly) realised it would cost as much as a brand new ride, but wouldn't be seen that way by most people

 

[Maelstrom]

The cost of the nemesis rebuild was not far off the cost what Alton normally spend on a major SE ride- that’s why I believe 2028 will be almost likely time we see our next major project- which will be the 4 year gap which is fairly typical between major projects. Chessington will have had 4 years between Jumanji and Mine craft.

Outside Hyperia Thorpe have had very little since the previous major investment in 2016.

Hiede parks last major addition was the Colossus retrack in 2019 and last major addition that was brand new was 2017 (ghost busters dark ride). Last new coaster was 2014.

Gardaland- last coaster major coaster was 2015, with last major addition being Jumanji in 2022. Although Gardaland do seem to get investment in smaller additions and rethemes more regularly, much like Alton does.

 

[Hid]

For me personally, I would like a steam punk or cyber punk themed coaster possibly based around space could be a Black Hole 2.0 if you would. Black Hole has been gone for 20 years now and theres is a lot of people myself included who never experienced it.

A Black Hole 2.0 would cater to people who never experienced the original, whilst also playing on Nostalgia and making an even better experience

 

[Plastic Person]

2) 3 leadership changes has created havoc with the actual project. Plus latest Merlin management don’t seem to have much of a strategy for Towers. They seem much more focused on Chessington.

Very true, and not something I ever would have believed to be a possibility ten years ago. Despite the planning restrictions Chessington has faced in previous decades, and the current need to demolish and rebuild entire sections of the park, I expect that its compact nature and accessible location render it a less unwieldy proposition than maintaining and developing the entire Alton Towers estate, at least to modern-day Merlin.