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365 Day Opening
- Thread starter Trooper Looper
- Start date
jon81uk
TS Member
Yep I think fleshing out the Christmas event will be the first logical step. Jan/Feb/March is usually worse for snow. I think thats how many of the German parks run too? Main season and Christmas season.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
One thing I would say is that the park could simply be referring to the hotels, water park, Extraordinary Golf and such when it refers to being a “365 day resort”. The park is only one component of the wider resort; perhaps they’re simply talking about the wider resort activities, and alluding to some additional second gate stuff being built outside of the park itself to boost the 365 day offering?
If they are talking about the park, though; I did wonder whether the onus on indoor attractions in recent years may have been building towards some sort of increased winter opening.
With The World of David Walliams, Hex, The Alton Towers Dungeon and Project Horizon, the park will have made themselves quite a strong lineup of indoor attractions behind the Towers Ruins to potentially facilitate that area becoming a “winter hub” of sorts. And despite it not being in the same area as the others, The Curse at Alton Manor would only strengthen a hypothetical winter lineup further.
If they are talking about the park, though; I did wonder whether the onus on indoor attractions in recent years may have been building towards some sort of increased winter opening.
With The World of David Walliams, Hex, The Alton Towers Dungeon and Project Horizon, the park will have made themselves quite a strong lineup of indoor attractions behind the Towers Ruins to potentially facilitate that area becoming a “winter hub” of sorts. And despite it not being in the same area as the others, The Curse at Alton Manor would only strengthen a hypothetical winter lineup further.
Lots of things to improve on, nothing wrong with having some ambition to do that. Some glaring points though:
1) Does it mean 365 opening or 365 usage? I can still see the main season staying as is March-Nov / Nov-Jan Xmas Event / Jan - March weekends only or special events
2) More indoor attractions - this is absolute needed, keep the dark rides open. Reopen 4D theatre, N:ST, Add a flying theatre. Add a museum to the Towers Ruins. Cover the mini golf course. I’d personally love to see “studio” style buildings on the Air Car parks and a small second gate with new attractions.
3) 365 resort activities - A bowling alley/cinema/restaurant venue near the hotels seems a must at this point. There just isn’t enough to do in the evenings all year round.
4) In park infrastructure - Land train or equivalent to move people to the entrance or nearby should be a consideration
5) Parking - using the meadows finally seems a must. Could a multi storey be in the future? To free up more development space
6) Longer opening hours - A projection mapped with fountains nighttime show could be a great way to signify this change and used all year round.
7) Food and drink - it’s awful as is, hotels on park. It can’t be serious with its current offering. We’ve gone from carvery’s to hot dogs. If it wants to become a premium venue (which it could) this has to get a lot better
8) Transport - access road (maybe with a new labour government) or reopening the railway back to Oakamoor with a park and ride from the new leek station could help with both access and multi day tickets etc. keeps all the money local, provides something different and takes cars off the road.
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1) Does it mean 365 opening or 365 usage? I can still see the main season staying as is March-Nov / Nov-Jan Xmas Event / Jan - March weekends only or special events
2) More indoor attractions - this is absolute needed, keep the dark rides open. Reopen 4D theatre, N:ST, Add a flying theatre. Add a museum to the Towers Ruins. Cover the mini golf course. I’d personally love to see “studio” style buildings on the Air Car parks and a small second gate with new attractions.
3) 365 resort activities - A bowling alley/cinema/restaurant venue near the hotels seems a must at this point. There just isn’t enough to do in the evenings all year round.
4) In park infrastructure - Land train or equivalent to move people to the entrance or nearby should be a consideration
5) Parking - using the meadows finally seems a must. Could a multi storey be in the future? To free up more development space
6) Longer opening hours - A projection mapped with fountains nighttime show could be a great way to signify this change and used all year round.
7) Food and drink - it’s awful as is, hotels on park. It can’t be serious with its current offering. We’ve gone from carvery’s to hot dogs. If it wants to become a premium venue (which it could) this has to get a lot better
8) Transport - access road (maybe with a new labour government) or reopening the railway back to Oakamoor with a park and ride from the new leek station could help with both access and multi day tickets etc. keeps all the money local, provides something different and takes cars off the road.
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Dobba
TS Member
The whole themepark being open 360+ days a year is a complete non-starter, for a whole host of reasons. The park isn't blessed with the infrastructure links of the likes of an Europa Park, the international brand draw of the likes of Disneyland Paris nor is it based in a country that doesn't grind to a halt if more than a few millimetres of snow falls overnight.
As others have said, the expansion of the Christmas event makes sense. Obviously there is demand out there for it and with two of the next three seasons seeing the opening of indoor attractions, that will almost certainly be added to that years ride line-up, that demand will only go up.
You also have the gap between Fireworks and the main Christmas period, previously taken up by Lightopia, that the park could utilise in some form. Obviously the business model of Lightopia wasn't exactly water-tight but there is clearly room for something there, even if it is just expanding the Christmas event into that gap and having more rides that could then have their yearly maintenance done between January and the start of the season.
The park could also definitely build upon the heritage side of things with garden open days and historic tours but I'm not sure the demand is there to do too many of those.
As others have said, the expansion of the Christmas event makes sense. Obviously there is demand out there for it and with two of the next three seasons seeing the opening of indoor attractions, that will almost certainly be added to that years ride line-up, that demand will only go up.
You also have the gap between Fireworks and the main Christmas period, previously taken up by Lightopia, that the park could utilise in some form. Obviously the business model of Lightopia wasn't exactly water-tight but there is clearly room for something there, even if it is just expanding the Christmas event into that gap and having more rides that could then have their yearly maintenance done between January and the start of the season.
The park could also definitely build upon the heritage side of things with garden open days and historic tours but I'm not sure the demand is there to do too many of those.
QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
Access road, ofc. This has been talked about many times over the years but I remember some years ago the last this was asked Merlin were like 'nope, never going to happen move on' at that time, not sure if their views have changed.
The railway I'd say is good however using the old Alton station would not be suitable for the park as it is in the wrong direction from the entrance and even if it wasn't trying to make car parking space is a non-starter though I'd love to see the Churnet Valley Railway get there. If you wanted a rail link right towards the park, you'd want to go in the other direction on a the original spur line via Uttoxeter to Ashbourne in which you come in from the back and if you had permission to build a new alignment into the carpark on the site of the Extraordinary Golf which could be your new island style platform then you'd be in a walking distance from the Monorail which would give that the excuse to overhaul it and make work as an actual piece of integrated transport system for the park. I did sketch up these drawings on how you'd do an Alton Towers rail link.
So let me put on my rail consultant hat on here...
To give an idea what is what, the red line is the new route, blue is the old alignment and the yellow is the current line.
To have any chance, you'd have to include Ashbourne as part of the rail link (ignore the missing red line at the bottom as I left that out by mistake!) to make it seem like a worthwhile project
This being a new alignment which would cause problems for going through the wood which cutting down trees even if there is a promise to replant more will cause an uproar but at the very least the area around Alton village would remain unaffected as you can see with the terminus there, it makes a modern rail link far more suitable to serve the park rather than the old station which while looking nice is not suitable for the task in mind.
Reason why I'm not using the old track bed is that either much of is has been redevelopment and will cost more to try and buy back land, also much of it is not suitable for modern standards though I will confess I haven't got the best knowledge of the railway system of the area and finally you might as well spend a bit to make it the best possible rail system as possible in which yes it would not be suitable for the park's current operating form but if they were to have a bigger attendance through more days of the year operating wise then the railway would help pay its way back and would improve the park's transport links dramatically and that is not including the bypass route.
Still, I'm just trying to help give out ideas of how it could be done. I just love playing trains and just trying to combine my two loves of theme parks and trains into one...but yeah, I might have gone off topic here but as I said before, the park will need proper transport links if they are serious of more openings throughout the year.
You've only spent a couple of hundred million pounds there...so every chance of the plan going ahead!
And the red line marking on the last photo is up a very steep bank, impossible for anything less than a funicular!
The cablecars from Keele Services direct to the park entrance are much more realistic.
Needs discussing in Crevettes over two pints of heavy.
And the red line marking on the last photo is up a very steep bank, impossible for anything less than a funicular!
The cablecars from Keele Services direct to the park entrance are much more realistic.
Needs discussing in Crevettes over two pints of heavy.
RicketyCricket
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
I'm not convinced the demand is there tbh.
We don't cope very well with bad weather over here. In Germany for example there is more of an 'outdoorsy' culture. Families dressed head to toe in Jack Wolfskin gear out enjoying themselves in freezing conditions.
We don't cope very well with bad weather over here. In Germany for example there is more of an 'outdoorsy' culture. Families dressed head to toe in Jack Wolfskin gear out enjoying themselves in freezing conditions.
Full year-round opening of the entire theme park, hotels & waterpark will never happen. One simple reason - annual maintenance.
Towers Technical Services have struggled to get everything open for opening day in past seasons, despite having had about 4.5 months of closed season for maintenance.
There is also the weather issue - not just affecting the local roads & guests ability to get to the resort, but Towers won't run certain rides in low temperatures - and for reasons obvious they have to err strongly on the sides of safety.
The waterpark closes for a couple of weeks every January (even the likes of Disney have to Blizzard Beach & Typhoon Lagoon in Florida for annual rehab work - one park closes while the other stays open, then they swap over).
I suspect that any year-round opening would be in the form of more events at the hotels in what is currently the closed season with limited on-park ride offer to allow annual maintenance work.
Pigs will fly before the theme park itself goes to full 365 day opening.
Towers Technical Services have struggled to get everything open for opening day in past seasons, despite having had about 4.5 months of closed season for maintenance.
There is also the weather issue - not just affecting the local roads & guests ability to get to the resort, but Towers won't run certain rides in low temperatures - and for reasons obvious they have to err strongly on the sides of safety.
The waterpark closes for a couple of weeks every January (even the likes of Disney have to Blizzard Beach & Typhoon Lagoon in Florida for annual rehab work - one park closes while the other stays open, then they swap over).
I suspect that any year-round opening would be in the form of more events at the hotels in what is currently the closed season with limited on-park ride offer to allow annual maintenance work.
Pigs will fly before the theme park itself goes to full 365 day opening.
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
This being a new alignment which would cause problems for going through the wood which cutting down trees even if there is a promise to replant more will cause an uproar but at the very least the area around Alton village would remain unaffected as you can see with the terminus there, it makes a modern rail link far more suitable to serve the park rather than the old station which while looking nice is not suitable for the task in mind.
Reason why I'm not using the old track bed is that either much of is has been redevelopment and will cost more to try and buy back land, also much of it is not suitable for modern standards though I will confess I haven't got the best knowledge of the railway system of the area and finally you might as well spend a bit to make it the best possible rail system as possible in which yes it would not be suitable for the park's current operating form but if they were to have a bigger attendance through more days of the year operating wise then the railway would help pay its way back and would improve the park's transport links dramatically and that is not including the bypass route.
Still, I'm just trying to help give out ideas of how it could be done. I just love playing trains and just trying to combine my two loves of theme parks and trains into one...but yeah, I might have gone off topic here but as I said before, the park will need proper transport links if they are serious of more openings throughout the year.
The track in that specific picture is a total impossible route. You will not get a railway up from that blue line to the park. The gradient of the hill is simply far, far to steep for any conventional railway. That whole side of the park is way to steep in fact.
The height difference from that blue line to where you have drew a station is 70 meters. The distance? 600 meters. That gives a track gradient of 1:8.96.
The steepest railway in the UK (and it is steep in rail terms) has a gradient of 1:37.7. Not even close. In gradient terms, a smaller number means a steeper gradient. The gradient figure can be used accurately for any unit of measurement, it works for all, as long as both numbers are the same unit.
1:37.7, means you will have 37.7 units of horizontal length (distance forward) by 1 unit of vertical length (height). Meters, feet, centimetres, inches, whatever, the formula works accurately for them all, point is, it is far to steep.
This is before you accounted for tree loss, which would be huge, especially if they tried to stretch out the gradient over a long distance.
There is absolutely no way a conventional railway could be built there, it is impossible on a technical level and impossible on a conservation level. The only viable way a railway could be brought into the park would be from the northern / northern east and west ends, where there is not really a steep hill to deal with.
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Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
There might actually be something in this.
They have recently added GG: The ride, they have just revamped The HH with The Curse, it seems as if NST is returning also soon and finally the next major investment is going to be an indoors ride.
Definitely feels intentional.
And as others have said there is still potential for Dungeons building to be reused and the 4D cinema returning.
I'd love to see them move more towards adding indoor attractions and add more dark rides in particular.
They have recently added GG: The ride, they have just revamped The HH with The Curse, it seems as if NST is returning also soon and finally the next major investment is going to be an indoors ride.
Definitely feels intentional.
And as others have said there is still potential for Dungeons building to be reused and the 4D cinema returning.
I'd love to see them move more towards adding indoor attractions and add more dark rides in particular.
havaska
TS Member
They need to add more resort side entertainment too.
The space between Galactica and the hotels is perfect to develop this way.
Could build some more restaurants, a bowling alley, rebuild extraordinary golf indoors (like Legoland). Could even have a small indoor area with a few small rides.
On top of this, open the Waterpark later at night.
There’s loads of potential. Just needs the investment and the will to do it.
The space between Galactica and the hotels is perfect to develop this way.
Could build some more restaurants, a bowling alley, rebuild extraordinary golf indoors (like Legoland). Could even have a small indoor area with a few small rides.
On top of this, open the Waterpark later at night.
There’s loads of potential. Just needs the investment and the will to do it.
QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
I have no doubt that, if all going well, the theme park side of things seems to be looking up...the Resort side however is letting the place down in which it has been well documented on here from the food, servicing at the hotels and others that we all know what's going on and if they are serious about 365 day openings then they will have to rectify the current situation with the hotels ASAP before they think about expansion. Yes, what you said there can all be done but getting the current problems fixed is a must before any of that can be done.
Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
With the park typically closing quite early each day they could definitely do with having more things to do at night for resort guests.
Bowling is a decent shout. Escape rooms I think would work quite well too but they would have to have a decent capacity to them to work. I think escape rooms themed to classic and existing Towers rides / areas would certainly be fun.
I'm definitely not one for cheesy pantomime style shows. I think they are quite old hat tbh and a bit cringey. However theres loads of other stuff they could do.
Bowling is a decent shout. Escape rooms I think would work quite well too but they would have to have a decent capacity to them to work. I think escape rooms themed to classic and existing Towers rides / areas would certainly be fun.
I'm definitely not one for cheesy pantomime style shows. I think they are quite old hat tbh and a bit cringey. However theres loads of other stuff they could do.
pluk
TS Member
Which manufacturers coasters cope will in bad weather? B&M
Which two coasters are right by the hotels? B&Ms.
It seems reasonable they could manage near year round opening of Forbiden Valley to Habunted Hollow already. Indoor entertainment as already mentioned hotel end and you have something worth a visit out of season. Bowling, a proper entertainment space, some indoor small rides and a big ass soft play, something like Adventure Inside at Southend.
This is the one downside of Horizon. With it being the very far corner of the park it's hard to imagine it being able to be lumped in with the parks other likely all weather options.
Which two coasters are right by the hotels? B&Ms.
It seems reasonable they could manage near year round opening of Forbiden Valley to Habunted Hollow already. Indoor entertainment as already mentioned hotel end and you have something worth a visit out of season. Bowling, a proper entertainment space, some indoor small rides and a big ass soft play, something like Adventure Inside at Southend.
This is the one downside of Horizon. With it being the very far corner of the park it's hard to imagine it being able to be lumped in with the parks other likely all weather options.
Danny
TS Contributor
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Dungeons. WODW. Hex. Woodcutters for dining options. Including Horizon could be feasible if it's aimed at the 1.2m market. That area of the park has been busier than Mutiny Bay on my visits over the past two Decembers.
pluk
TS Member
True, I was thinking more of the logistics and effort in opening up that side of the park in bad weather, keeping routes clear, actually moving people about, for a comparatively small offering when everyone is up at the hotels.
James
TS Founding Member
If WoDW was complete (or gets chucked and a new theme/attractions/rides are applied), you could open up these areas for the winter months. Old Nickelodeon building repurposed, 4D cinema return, Gansta Granny, Dungeons, Horizon, add that with Hex and you have a good collection of indoor attractions all in close proximity to one another.
I agree with most that Alton Towers will never become a true 365 park without huge investment and changes to infrastructure. It's such a distant park for most people across the country I'm not sure if the interest is there without expanding the park's attractions/resort side significantly to make it more of a year-round holiday resort.
The Christmas event needs to be the main focus at the moment. Christmas events/attractions have become a huge thing in recent years so Towers need to get capitalising on that. In terms of Lightopia, they need to consider looking toward something like Longleat's Festival of Light for inspiration, which I feel is far superior.
Either way, it's good to see a new masterplan in development, and it will give us a good indication of what Towers/Merlin intends in the long run.
I agree with most that Alton Towers will never become a true 365 park without huge investment and changes to infrastructure. It's such a distant park for most people across the country I'm not sure if the interest is there without expanding the park's attractions/resort side significantly to make it more of a year-round holiday resort.
The Christmas event needs to be the main focus at the moment. Christmas events/attractions have become a huge thing in recent years so Towers need to get capitalising on that. In terms of Lightopia, they need to consider looking toward something like Longleat's Festival of Light for inspiration, which I feel is far superior.
Either way, it's good to see a new masterplan in development, and it will give us a good indication of what Towers/Merlin intends in the long run.