B&M 4D Rumours

[Ian]

I just don't see why if we get the prototype it will be an inferior ride compared to others, that's all. It just seems a lot of this is being based off Air and Th13teen (And let's not go into Th13teen. Between them Intamin and Towers really ballsed that one up ).

Harbouring uncertainties about prototypes based on the failures of HALF the SW's installed in the past 18 years is hardly invalid is it? It's not great that 50% of the Secret Weapons so far have had critical receptions due to various flaws and uninteresting layouts - hallmarks of prototypes.

If we're talking about Secret Weapon prototypes then yes I agree with you. But I was talking about prototypes in general with that point. I merely selected two SW coasters as they are what people will be familiar with, so would understand the point better. There are loads of prototypes that could be used to illustrate good or bad ones, but in that post I was trying to select two familiar ones

There are a lot of very good example of prototypes around the world. There are also examples of bad ones. But how a lot of these posts have come across to me is that Towers already have two prototypes that aren't great in some people's opinion (Though personally I think each SW fulfils its objective and does it well, Th13teen exempt where it seems they didn't know what it was doing I'm not saying it's a bad ride, as I do have a soft spot for it, but I'm talking in terms of just SW prototypes), therefore any other ones they build won't be very good, so they should avoid it.

I was just trying to make the point that there have been some very good prototypes built, at least one of which is at Towers whichever way you look at it. We shouldn't tar them all the same way. This is why I'd welcome another to Alton. Yes, you may think they have only one decent prototype, but as rides go each one of the SW coasters has a job to do and does it.

I guess I'm trying to say that if Towers wanted the 4D prototype but asked for something floaty and serene like Air that's what would be built. If they ask for the prototype and ask for an insane coaster like Nemesis that's what will be built (Within the realms of what the ride is capable of). If they opt for the second then they not only have an amazing coaster, but they have the claim to fame to go with it. It gives other parks something to try to aspire to, and makes Alton's the leading example. Someone will always find a way to top another ride, no mater wether it's a prototype or an old tried and tested system. On that basis, why wait? You build an amazing prototype, but it's exceeded in a few years. But you still have the first one ever built. Or you build one better than the prototype and it's exceeded in a few years by another. Well you just have a good coaster.

That's how I see it personally, but I still don't think it's fair to say it's a prototype so it'll be inferior compared to others. That's just my opinion on the mater, but I still think it's harsh to say if it's a prototype it probably wouldn't be as good

 

[BigAl]

I'd prefer it if Alton Towers got the first 4D from B&M but only if they can do said concept any justice. There's very little room or height to play with and I don't want to end up with a ride that's the same as Swarm and Air (in terms of intensity) mixed with some spinning seats.

Winged coasters are a lot more cumbersome than other ride types and without some decent landscaping for tunnels, trenches and larger drops, they could ruin a perfect opportunity to make a ride that's better than Nemesis and more iconic than Oblivion.

So why would I like Alton to get the first one? Well besides being able to market it to the world as the only one of its kind (at least the only 4D coaster in Europe or something), they could secure a similar deal they did with Th13teen where only Alton can have the concept for 3 or 4 years.

Creating the ride after someone else has done it is irrelevant to me. Being second, third or forth doesn't give you a better chance of making a better ride. It's up to the park to create a ride that isn't so easy to better in the first place. To me, people are too harsh on Oblivion and Air when comparing them to other rides such as Sheikra, Griffon, Tatsu, Manta and Sky Scrapper. For the restrictions imposed on Alton Towers, I think they did a damn fine job with them. They could never fit something like a giant immelmann onto Oblivion or a pretzel loop somewhere on Air but what they could do has been carried out incredibly well.

And if anything, I still say Oblivion is better than Sheikra (read my reasons why in the top 10 topic if you'd like ).

Making a ride bigger and longer doesn't automatically make it better than the original. If Alton Towers and Merlin want to pursue a 4D wing coaster with B&M, I say go for it but Merlin need to be prepared to really go all out and make something incredible, not just a ride that's decent by UK standards, otherwise someone else will completely obliterate Alton's efforts. I trust B&M to make an excellent ride type so it's down to Alton Towers and Merlin to use that ride type to its full potential if that's what they want for either SW8 or SW9.

Just get it right the first time, tbh!

 

[Alexsutton]

It just seems a lot of this is being based off Air and Th13teen (And let's not go into Th13teen. Between them Intamin and Towers really ballsed that one up ).

In Th13teen's defence, the 'prototype' part of the ride, the drop section, is (in my opinion) pretty perfect, it's forceful and insanely efficient.

 

[Ian]

It just seems a lot of this is being based off Air and Th13teen (And let's not go into Th13teen. Between them Intamin and Towers really ballsed that one up ).

In Th13teen's defence, the 'prototype' part of the ride, the drop section, is (in my opinion) pretty perfect, it's forceful and insanely efficient.

Well given the competition I think it's a good piece of kit. In retrospect I think many most might agree now. The main thing which I think got people down when it opened was the height. I remember reading lots of comments saying "Oh it should be a lot taller. Someone is clearly going to make a better version of this", but as of yet in terms of drop I don't think we've seen anything to blow it out of the water.

But in terms of a whole ride, which is how I was looking at it, Th13teen is a bit of a problem child. Things went wrong which never should have really. Towers with the mis-marketing and promotion, and Intamin with the silly issues like the second lift and all the trim changes needed. We'll ignore the fact that the drop blew up a couple of times, as it seems to be sorted now

 

[James]

Th13teen was a good prototype in my eyes. If the outdoor section were good then I doubt people would be so negative against it. Plus if marketing was aimed at the right market (family, not thrill) then likewise I doubt it would receive such negativity.

Oblivion is another good prototype. The ride was always about the drop, that is the whole idea of Oblivion. If they had some other sections after the drop then it would somewhat detract from the drop itself which would go against the concept at the time.

Air is a tricky one. Although I believe again it was a great prototype. It was marketed as a very light, fun, beautiful ride and the end product did exactly as it entailed. The layout I find very fun, and the thing I love about it is the fact it was never meant to be this scary, forceful ride, it was meant to be about experiencing this

Air and Oblivion are perfect in my eyes and they did as they were meant to. Both are very popular with the public. Th13teen's element hits the spot well, it's only the outdoor section which lets it down, and that will always make the whole experience of Th13teen easy to beat. Oblivion is an experience like no other, Air, which it has easily been improved upon in other parks, it still stands out as a very enjoyable ride.