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Blackpool Pleasure Beach: 2025 Discussion

I not been since 2010 but the park looks awful with the amount of rides removed since then with really just Wallace and Gromit, Icon, sky force (now SNBO) and Nick land opening in the past 15 years.
Mandy is more interested in her Hot Ice show and a 3rd hotel than a new thrill coaster to bring more guests into the park.
 
I agree with the above analysis. It’s surely not news to anyone that low throughput rides have low throughput.

That’s not a comment on their popularity or a reason to close them.
 
I'm sorry but I do not buy into the positive PR spin some of these YouTubers are putting on this news.

The cold hard facts are that 5 rides have been announced to close 1 week before the season opens, after tickets have been sold - and season passes renewed or sold too. All of it without ANY concrete plans of ride replacements. It stinks.

However let's be clear, it is most likely cost-cutting due primarily to an increase in National Minimum Wage and Employer NI Contributions from April. A disastrous policy from a clueless government that is massively impacting recruitment and staffing right now ahead of this.

I raised this point on one of Scott's (Your Experience Guide) videos RE: Alton Towers entertainment cuts and was met with a bit of a blunt response.

The cold hard fact is, tonne's of businesses of all scales are laying off staff now due to this and reducing overheads.

In lieu of BPB's statement regarding low throughput on these rides, which others have rightfully highlighted limited or inconsistent operating hours which will hurt ridership figures - I also feel it is a case of saving on staffing costs - not just ride operators, but in maintenance staffing hours too - albeit these are less impacted by the above changes due to assumedly being salaried roles.

Here's a breakdown of the size of the impact raising NMW and Employer NI Contributions is having on amusement/theme parks due to their staff being NMW employee's.

- National Insurance contributions will increase from 13.8% to 15% but most importantly in relation to theme park staff, the threshold for them to pay NI contributions is now £5000 instead of £9,100.

- Minimum wage in 2025 will be £10 for 18-20 y/o and £12.21 for 21+ y/o. For £10 per hour that's 500 hours worked to cross that threshold, and for £12.21 per hour it's 409.5 hours worked.

- Let's say these staff are doing 40 hours during the season and are full time contracted roles - that's only 12.5 weeks on £10 p/h and 10 weeks on £12.21.

So now imagine you have 100 contracted seasonal members of staff all now costing you 15% more per year due to NI contributions plus the baseline increase in national minimum wage. You're looking at a 6.7% increase in NMW for 21+ year olds and a 16.3% rise for 18-20 year olds. That's a huge jump of 21.7% to 31.3% increase in staffing costs for those in minimum wage roles on their employers once they cross that lower £5000 earnings threshold.

I wouldnt be surprised if they are looking to cut 20-30% of total staff hours by leaving more rides SBNO, or removing rides.

I've estimated staffing costs with 1 ride op per ride, operating 4 hours per day average over the 221 day season to be about £100k in staffing costs without factoring in the NI contributions, and again that then doesnt account for the cost to run the rides, parts, maintainance etc. You're probably easily looking at £250-£500k at a minimum when factoring Skyforce in surely.

I just think its poor tbh, right before the season opens and again just leaving people with what are currently empty promises of 'good things ahead' essentially. Too many thoosies are just happy to be gaslit by this behaviour to churn out videos about potential ride replacements, often with daft suggestions that the park won't be able to afford.

I'm just absolutely sick of hearing about these mysterious new future rides. I wouldnt mind if they said here's our roadmap to renew the park over 5 years, there will be some seasons with lots of removals but XYZ is coming in 26/27/28 etc. A leaf out of Cedar Flags book re: Great Adventure, at least some idea of whats to come to speculate on and be hopeful for.

Nothing is coming except that grand prix replacement IMO.
 
Pleasure beach has become the Jam tomorrow park. It's becoming a harder sell to justify those tickets prices. Every year punters pay more for less hoping that rumour they heard last year will come to fruition in the next 5 years.

I appreciate the openness of the park regarding the closed rides but I don't see it as a positive until we get something new.
 
Am I the only person who absolutely loves Skyforce?

I've thought some had been overstating the potential financial issues at the park in recent years, but of all the dubious decisions and operations we've seen this feels like a real desperate measure. Dreadful stuff, and I don't buy any scrap of the possitive spin they are trying to put on it.
 
Ares said:
...- Let's say these staff are doing 40 hours during the season and are full time contracted roles - that's only 12.5 weeks on £10 p/h and 10 weeks on £12.21....
Click to expand...
How many of the park staff do you actually think have full time contracted roles???
In my personal experience, chatting with ride staff, and catering/sales staff for half a century, very few staff have such contracts at all.
Seasonal work, part time, with ten or so hours contracted is the park standard.
Quiet days, catering staff are sent home after two hours work...I have seen it on many occasions, with my own eyes, often.
The rides closed were only open on peak weekends, and not always then.
Still no mention of my dodgy dodgems, and I note the closed rides are only announced after three months of hard selling season passes with no mention of future reduction of provision.

The National closure comes as no surprise...it takes a lot of staff to run it, and the north side of the park is so dead off peak it rarely has enough punters to run the service.

The death by a thousand cuts spiral down to the ground continues.

Sad to say, but what the park really needs is a couple of million Merlin pass holders to fill the place out.

Or cheap entry for non riders to fill the place out.
 
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shakey said:
Skyforce was a complete waste of money. £2.5m. So thats £250k a year plus running costs for the 10 years it operated.

We may get a car park in its place.

They could have spent £500k on a star flyer which would have been much more popular.
Click to expand...

Would a Starflyer survive that dreaded breeze from the Irish Sea though?

pluk said:
Am I the only person who absolutely loves Skyforce?
Click to expand...

No, I enjoy them too. Though I also have the "knack" of inverting and don't go overboard with that either.
 
The good ones like the one at Holiday Park are great. Skyforce has been butchered somehow as it doesn't flip anywhere near as much. I spent the entire cycle at HP flipping.
 
The Blackpool one is very easy to spin when there is anything more than a gentle breeze.
The tricky one is balancing up side down!
 
Ares said:
I'm sorry but I do not buy into the positive PR spin some of these YouTubers are putting on this news.

The cold hard facts are that 5 rides have been announced to close 1 week before the season opens, after tickets have been sold - and season passes renewed or sold too. All of it without ANY concrete plans of ride replacements. It stinks.

However let's be clear, it is most likely cost-cutting due primarily to an increase in National Minimum Wage and Employer NI Contributions from April. A disastrous policy from a clueless government that is massively impacting recruitment and staffing right now ahead of this.

I raised this point on one of Scott's (Your Experience Guide) videos RE: Alton Towers entertainment cuts and was met with a bit of a blunt response.

The cold hard fact is, tonne's of businesses of all scales are laying off staff now due to this and reducing overheads.

In lieu of BPB's statement regarding low throughput on these rides, which others have rightfully highlighted limited or inconsistent operating hours which will hurt ridership figures - I also feel it is a case of saving on staffing costs - not just ride operators, but in maintenance staffing hours too - albeit these are less impacted by the above changes due to assumedly being salaried roles.

Here's a breakdown of the size of the impact raising NMW and Employer NI Contributions is having on amusement/theme parks due to their staff being NMW employee's.

- National Insurance contributions will increase from 13.8% to 15% but most importantly in relation to theme park staff, the threshold for them to pay NI contributions is now £5000 instead of £9,100.

- Minimum wage in 2025 will be £10 for 18-20 y/o and £12.21 for 21+ y/o. For £10 per hour that's 500 hours worked to cross that threshold, and for £12.21 per hour it's 409.5 hours worked.

- Let's say these staff are doing 40 hours during the season and are full time contracted roles - that's only 12.5 weeks on £10 p/h and 10 weeks on £12.21.

So now imagine you have 100 contracted seasonal members of staff all now costing you 15% more per year due to NI contributions plus the baseline increase in national minimum wage. You're looking at a 6.7% increase in NMW for 21+ year olds and a 16.3% rise for 18-20 year olds. That's a huge jump of 21.7% to 31.3% increase in staffing costs for those in minimum wage roles on their employers once they cross that lower £5000 earnings threshold.

I wouldnt be surprised if they are looking to cut 20-30% of total staff hours by leaving more rides SBNO, or removing rides.

I've estimated staffing costs with 1 ride op per ride, operating 4 hours per day average over the 221 day season to be about £100k in staffing costs without factoring in the NI contributions, and again that then doesnt account for the cost to run the rides, parts, maintainance etc. You're probably easily looking at £250-£500k at a minimum when factoring Skyforce in surely.

I just think its poor tbh, right before the season opens and again just leaving people with what are currently empty promises of 'good things ahead' essentially. Too many thoosies are just happy to be gaslit by this behaviour to churn out videos about potential ride replacements, often with daft suggestions that the park won't be able to afford.

I'm just absolutely sick of hearing about these mysterious new future rides. I wouldnt mind if they said here's our roadmap to renew the park over 5 years, there will be some seasons with lots of removals but XYZ is coming in 26/27/28 etc. A leaf out of Cedar Flags book re: Great Adventure, at least some idea of whats to come to speculate on and be hopeful for.

Nothing is coming except that grand prix replacement IMO.
Click to expand...

Not to burst your bubble or anything but despite the usual suspects moaning about the budget , employment remains stable (no lay-offs in preparation for the NI change have occurred), vacancies actually increased in January and wages have risen 6% in the private sector. This is based on the ONS release 4 days ago.

www.theguardian.com

UK pay growth rises 6% despite job loss warnings after Reeves’s budget

Unemployment rate unchanged in three months to December, while vacancies increased in January
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

So your concerns about an incompetent government causing these issues seems a touch unfounded. This is far more likely to do with the managerial incompetence and marketing mediocrity at PB than the budget.
 
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Dave said:
Not to burst your bubble or anything but despite the usual suspects moaning about the budget , employment remains stable (no lay-offs in preparation for the NI change have occurred), vacancies actually increased in January and wages have risen 6% in the private sector. This is based on the ONS release 4 days ago.
Click to expand...

That same article does also state “Employer surveys suggest companies are preparing for the biggest round of redundancies in a decade amid collapsing business confidence.”

I know the company I work for started the redundancy process in November, citing NI increases as one the major challenges being faced. It’s certainly an aggravating factor for some businesses.
 
MarkR77 said:
That same article does also state “Employer surveys suggest companies are preparing for the biggest round of redundancies in a decade amid collapsing business confidence.”

I know the company I work started the redundancy process in November, citing NI increases as one the major challenges being faced. It’s certainly an aggravating factor for some businesses.
Click to expand...

Employer surveys v actual numbers, if you are posting an increase in vacancies in January then you have a bit of a rush on to get ahead of the NI changes in April.

I’m sure there are a few already failing companies who the changes will impact, and I’m certain a few are using it as a convenient excuse, but as it stands the data is not backing the narrative.
 
Dave said:
... This is far more likely to do with the managerial incompetence and marketing mediocrity at PB than the budget.
Click to expand...
Again sir, ownership incompetence, leave the poor management out of this!
They have had some really good managers over the years, but they can only play the hand of cards they have been dealt by the owner.
 
Benzin said:
Would a Starflyer survive that dreaded breeze from the Irish Sea though?



No, I enjoy them too. Though I also have the "knack" of inverting and don't go overboard with that either.
Click to expand...

The star flyer they install every year near the tower at Christmas doesn't seem to have any trouble operating. And at about £8 a ride there is usually a queue.

PPR discussion anyone ?
 
In fairness, a car park on Skyforce's plot makes absolutely perfect business sense. I don't know why there's so much demand for hotel parking at £20ish per night when there's so much street parking available (much of it free), but there is and BPB would be silly not to capitalise on that. Especially with the extra demand for it they'll create with these new apartments.

I was pretty surprised when they decided to repopulate the Bling site given it's at the absolute arse-end of the park unless you're one of the very few using the south entrance for the 45 minutes it opens each day for hotel guests only.

Not pleased by all this SBNO though. I think closing the carousel is particularly short-sighted.
 
I don't see how creating a car park in a gated park area with rides makes "perfect business sense".
The parking is only full on less than 10% of days.
Reducing the ride area, and the number of rides, decreases demand for visiting overall.
Is the closure of another half dozen attractions going to increase park visitors, or reduce them, in the long term?
Bling was popular, Skyforce was popular, the Burger King is popular, likewise Steeplechase.
The very south of the park only became quieter when the south entrance was closed, likewise the east gate.
Inconvenient for the punters, but tough...closed for cost saving...nothing else.
 
shakey said:
The star flyer they install every year near the tower at Christmas doesn't seem to have any trouble operating. And at about £8 a ride there is usually a queue.

PPR discussion anyone ?
Click to expand...

Where does it get installed? Set back behind some buildings taking the bulk of the wind is very different to where Skyforce sits.
 
I think the difference is, with the star flyer nobody is scared it'll valley and cost a fortune to recover the train with all the road closures etc. Pay per ride would obviously increase the wind level they're willing to run it in.

I've seen it run in some high winds but even that was closed occasionally over Xmas when we had the more windy storms.
 
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