Blackpool Pleasure Beach: 2025 Discussion

[Smiley]

you will have less people going at the perfect price the point is although that there is a perfect point,

With respect, you're not a theme park economist. Me neither, but I have managed huge businesses with $bn in sunk costs and little OPEX for additional customers (e.g. mobile networks).

What most theme parks currently lack (in the UK) is data. Disney are awash with it, and it is data that dictates (I think a quote from Lord Kelvin is appropriate here). Do people want a cheap day out, or do they want a great experience?? The world has moved on

 

[shakey]

Do people want a cheap day out, or do they want a great experience?? The world has moved on

As a Yorkshireman, I am looking for both !

 

[flyingguitar]

With respect, you're not a theme park economist. Me neither, but I have managed huge businesses with $bn in sunk costs and little OPEX for additional customers (e.g. mobile networks).

What most theme parks currently lack (in the UK) is data. Disney are awash with it, and it is data that dictates (I think a quote from Lord Kelvin is appropriate here). Do people want a cheap day out, or do they want a great experience?? The world has moved on

OK, but there is basic business sense, there is the balance of getting the price correct for the most optimum profit

your earlier point was that merlin / BPB should just increase the ticket price to increase their profit. my counter argument is that that could reduce profits due to reduced attendance, which would probably happen merlin would have calculated the most optimum price to charge,

merlin knows what they are doing in this aspect and how much to charge. you don't know better than them nor do I they have chosen this ticket price to maximise profites as simple as that.

also lack of data? is this the same "big Data" that that companies were awash with a few years ago. a lot of the data wouldn't be too useful for the price you are paying, what would alton do if they knew you went on nemesis 5 times, perhaps advertise that you can go on nemesis again but how much more effective is that, over more general advertising and how much dose it cost to host all of that data (AWS is very expensive and it would use a tone of storage storing all of the data points you would probably want).
disney literally spend Billions on their data systems such as magic bands and they really haven't received enough benefits to justify the cost. universal opperate just fine without such data, all the european parks also operate just fine. disney just use it to try and nickle and dimeing their users (the magic bands was also a hope to get people to spend irresponsibly as it was an early contactless)

I would much more perfer merlin, BPB, paulintons etc to reinves the millions it would cost to set up these data systems into a new couple of rides

 

[Matt N]

also lack of data? is this the same "big Data" that that companies were awash with a few years ago. a lot of the data wouldn't be too useful for the price you are paying, what would alton do if they knew you went on nemesis 5 times, perhaps advertise that you can go on nemesis again but how much more effective is that, over more general advertising and how much dose it cost to host all of that data (AWS is very expensive and it would use a tone of storage storing all of the data points you would probably want).
disney literally spend Billions on their data systems such as magic bands and they really haven't received enough benefits to justify the cost. universal opperate just fine without such data, all the european parks also operate just fine. disney just use it to try and nickle and dimeing their users (the magic bands was also a hope to get people to spend irresponsibly as it was an early contactless)

I would much more perfer merlin, BPB, paulintons etc to reinves the millions it would cost to set up these data systems into a new couple of rides

I don't disagree with your first point on pricing at all. I completely agree that simply raising prices isn't a strategy that will work ad nauseum, and that parks' prices are set at a price that will balance profit per guest with number of guests to ensure the maximum overall profit.

On your second point, however, I completely disagree, and am going to come to the defence of @Smiley somewhat.

Big data is not a fad. There's an awful lot of data on theme park guests that could be put to incredibly good use. In the theme park context, it's not so much that they're interested in targeting you at an individual level in the same way as, say, YouTube. Your ridership data at an individual level is probably of very little interest to the park... but when the data of the whole park visiting populace is amalgamated, it becomes incredibly interesting. The park could use data on the most ridden attractions to inform future installations, they could use data on KPIs such as average rides per day to check how they're doing on guest experience, they could use ridership data to potentially inform decisions around things like staggered openings, if they need to occur... the use cases are absolutely endless!

In the context being discussed, though (that of pricing), parks are likely just as interested in the people who aren't visiting as those who are, if not more so, so data collection would need to be wider in scope.

Data collection can be implemented in a far less sophisticated way than that implemented by Disney, and I do think it would be incredibly useful for the parks.

 

[flyingguitar]

Big data is not a fad. There's an awful lot of data on theme park guests that could be put to incredibly good use. In the theme park context, it's not so much that they're interested in targeting you at an individual level in the same way as, say, YouTube. Your ridership data at an individual level is probably of very little interest to the park... but when the data of the whole park visiting populace is amalgamated, it becomes incredibly interesting. The park could use data on the most ridden attractions to inform future installations, they could use data on KPIs such as average rides per day to check how they're doing on guest experience, they could use ridership data to potentially inform decisions around things like staggered openings, if they need to occur... the use cases are absolutely endless!

but they have that data already, they have systems which monitor the number of seats filled, at each dispatch and it can monitor the number of dispatches and number of people who have ridden in a day. a lot of general data isn't too hard to collect and doesn't require much data most of them they already have, the "big data" if about collecting a ton of information on user to try and generalise patterns, I do agree that I can see potential of some benefits (knowing that some one eats at the doughnut shop after the wicker man, maybe moving the doughnut shop closer) but collecting, agrigating and processing all of that data, is an extremly costly and time intensive process. you can say AI WilL HelP Us but that is also extremely cost intensive.

 

[rob666]

And to drag things a little bit Beachlike...

BPB have lots of data, and still turnstile punters to gather that data, but still seem to be doing pretty crap...despite all that data.

Also, yesterday there was no sign of anyone checking people into the queuelines, only at the usual gates, and the machine on the Streak still malfunctions on half of the customers phones.

 

[Steve Minor]

It's not jist about gathering data it's how you use it and interprit it.

 

[Matt N]

Relating to my question from yesterday; do Blackpool sell these (https://retail.blackpoolpleasurebeach.com/product/pleasure-beach-waterproof-bag/) on park, or are they online purchase only?

If the lockers at Pleasure Beach are phone opened now, then I’m thinking I may have to invest in a Pleasure Beach waterproof bag if I do go on Valhalla… given that they’re only £1, I think it would be worth it to keep my phone dry!

 

[Matty17p]

Relating to my question from yesterday; do Blackpool sell these (https://retail.blackpoolpleasurebeach.com/product/pleasure-beach-waterproof-bag/) on park, or are they online purchase only?

If the lockers at Pleasure Beach are phone opened now, then I’m thinking I may have to invest in a Pleasure Beach waterproof bag if I do go on Valhalla… given that they’re only £1, I think it would be worth it to keep my phone dry!

Was there the other week and forgot mine, couldn't see any in "kiss me quick" or any rain capes (had to get from Valhalla) id imagine they don't sell them in stores anymore judging by how cheap they are online. A lot of things that are sold on the website aren't actually in the stores on park.

 

[Vaz0202]

With regards to rain capes, I managed to find them behind the counter at the maxim gift shop

 

[b2311e]

Enso is back in operation as of yesterday, first time since October(?) last year.

A lot of work going on at Launch Pad this afternoon, including what appears to be electrical work, paving repairs and some fences. Meanwhile, the engineers are testing the ride itself. The sound of the launch is quite different, not sure if it's in a test mode or if this is just how the new part sounds, but much quieter

 

[Smiley]

but collecting, agrigating and processing all of that data, is an extremly costly and time intensive process

When data about your customers is a cost, you're doing it wrong!! It is the "literal goldmine" (or should that be Thrill-O-Matic), from everything about where your customer comes from (journey time, average income) to what car they drive, how far in advance they booked, when they arrive, how much they spend, yada yada.

But it doesn't change the facts that theme park ticket prices have been stagnant for a long time whilst all their other costs have increased considerably. That's not sustainable business, and certainly not one where you have lots of profit to invest. Ask Mandy!

 

[flyingguitar]

When data about your customers is a cost, you're doing it wrong!! It is the "literal goldmine" (or should that be Thrill-O-Matic), from everything about where your customer comes from (journey time, average income) to what car they drive, how far in advance they booked, when they arrive, how much they spend, yada yada.

But it doesn't change the facts that theme park ticket prices have been stagnant for a long time whilst all their other costs have increased considerably. That's not sustainable business, and certainly not one where you have lots of profit to invest. Ask Mandy!

from the data side, is it really a gold mine.
why dose it make a differnce to alton if they came in a BMW vs a tesla. the car dosn't dictate what they will do or how much they will spend. will alton start turning away people if you turn up in a mini because on average they spend less.
why dose it matter if they booked the trip 2 weeks ago or yesterday? like really what are Alton going to do with the knowledge that they booked in advance?
the average consumer spend could be useful, but do you need to have data tracking on people or could you just get the total revenue and find the average guest spend, not as personalised but dose it have to be?
people say we have all of these data points but it really isn't that useful, you also have to consider the cost of collecting, and storing that data (within GDPR regulations) cctv cameras wich shares their images to the clout to track people to see which car people got out of, then watch them enter with the ticket and associate a name will require a tone of data storage, and a tone of compute power to run (across the whole park!) in addition to the cost of adding these cameras, data is good but there is a point where you just are collecting useless information/

as for the price changes, we are currently under cost of living crisis, the amount people want to pay to go to a theme hasn't changed much, thus prices havent changed, if they increased them then their revenue would go down as less people will be willing to pay it.

the price of the ticket is set to maximise the revenue of the park, the fact that cost of running the park rises dosn't change the fact that that is the price they can get the maximum revienue

 

[Smiley]

And that's why @flyingguitar has never owned or run a business. If you're worried about a cost of living crisis, people have less disposable income - so theme parks should reduce their ticket prices?? All at the same time that energy costs, employment costs, and general inflation costs are soaring.

 

[flyingguitar]

And that's why @flyingguitar has never owned or run a business. If you're worried about a cost of living crisis, people have less disposable income - so theme parks should reduce their ticket prices?? All at the same time that energy costs, employment costs, and general inflation costs are soaring.

This is literally business 101 charging the correct price.

you charge too much, less people come you make less money, you charge too little you lose out on money you could have been charging it is a balance and there will be a point at which you perfectly match both.

There could be an argument for reducing prices, the strain on consumers is reducing the amount of people who can afford to go to the theme park, reducning the price could allow for more people to go increasing the number of tickets sold potentially increasing profits (depending on what the consumers response it) I would personally say that AT and TP are probably pretty well priced, but BPB probably needs to go down a little.

there is a balance, once you go past a certain price items sold drops of a cliff as people don't want to may too much.


I don't know why you always think you are correct, especially about subjects you don't have experience with (e.g engieering or logistics) I am litterally just saying that there is a perfect price people are willing to pay for AT, BPB, TP etc I don't know that but considering the market would guess that it is arround £30-£40

you may be willing to pay £60 for a theme park ticket, but many people may not be able to afford the increase in price (multiply the increase by like 4 for a family) and very quickly you lose money due to low attendance.

can you look over this again, there is a balance at which pricing can maximise profits by getting the most price, which a majority of people are willing to pay for:

also you have forgotten to consider, the costs for events is essentially constant no matter the number of people, if it costs £2500 plus £5 per person to run the event, and you have 100 people going at £40 you make £1000, but if you have 10 people at £80 you lose £1,750, at £60 with 50 people you make £250. of course these are made up numbers but it shows how it can be make more to charge less of course there is a point where it is too low, and you don't make a profit but there is that perfect balance of not loosing profit due to it being too cheap, and not loosing to people not going

 

[shakey]

Blackpool seem to be using the pricing tactic of changing it randomly every other day !!

After dropping it to £30 a few weeks ago , its now £35.

Why they can't just pick a price and stick to it is beyond me.

 

[Alastair]

We're beginning to stray off topic here - please could we stick more specifically to BPB talk? Feel free to post elsewhere or create a new thread relating to ticket prices and inflation more generally. Thanks!

 

[rob666]

Conversation with my nephew and his wife on our month end family beerathon meetup yesterday.

They did the Beach (without me the swines) in the early days of the holidays, the elder one, still infant, was just tall enough for the Avalanche, so needed a full price ticket with dad...because he wanted to go on last year but wasn't quite tall enough then.
Mum had to pay the £25 nickland ticket charge, the under two littlest kid got in free, but couldn't ride.

An hours wait for a one train Avalanche, the elder kid had enough of queues, so that was it for big rides!
So a couple of kiddie rides in nickland, and home again after a couple of hours.

Their verdict...you can imagine.
Poor value for money for what they wanted to do, and they won't be back for at least five years, because the no paid entry system meant very poor value for a young family wanting a couple of hours on the rides.
Worked out, for them, at around twenty pounds a ride.

My birthday is coming up, but the occasional beer up on the Beach will simply not happen, as half of the group of eight do not do the rides, so the Beach will miss out on about half a grandsworth of trade on the day in entrance, food and beer, and beer sales...

About time they let the locals back in at a fair price if they are not riding, they just can't afford the lost trade off peak.

 

[Steve Minor]

I've said it before they need a family ticket.
I feel they're going in the right direction with this 2 for 1 offer although as a local I can't get this to work, it has to be done online and not at the gate. Locals can pay the online price at the gate but not the 2 for 1 seems wrong, also the price reduction throughout the day doesn't work for locals meaning depending on time of day it is actually more expensive if you tell them you're a resident rather than just anyone turning up to enter.
Blackpool zoo know how much trade they gate from locals as there mad march 40% off offers always end up with a fully sold out attraction and Merlins 50% off means during quiet season times they get busy with local residents. Pleasure beach are missing out here I feel.
Yeah they have the gold annual pass but they should do more for residents that may just want to pop down ad-hoc

 

[shakey]

I've said it before they need a family ticket.
I feel they're going in the right direction with this 2 for 1 offer although as a local I can't get this to work, it has to be done online and not at the gate. Locals can pay the online price at the gate but not the 2 for 1 seems wrong, also the price reduction throughout the day doesn't work for locals meaning depending on time of day it is actually more expensive if you tell them you're a resident rather than just anyone turning up to enter.
Blackpool zoo know how much trade they gate from locals as there mad march 40% off offers always end up with a fully sold out attraction and Merlins 50% off means during quiet season times they get busy with local residents. Pleasure beach are missing out here I feel.
Yeah they have the gold annual pass but they should do more for residents that may just want to pop down ad-hoc

Ive never understood why locals should get a discount. They are already saving money by not having to travel. If anything they should give discounts to people that live 100 miles away !