Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

[jon81uk]

Covid has been the biggest reason that the park has struggled this year. For most of the season Blackpool has been in tier 2 or tier 3 and people have been deterred from visiting both for the day and for overnight trips, not to mention that Scotland, much of their catchment area, has been under different restrictions.

You say “it’s not working” but this doesn’t mean that just giving up on all the great work that the park has done since the mid noughties and going back to the funfair style entry system of the 90s would be the answer to all their problems.

I keep hearing the argument, from BPB fans of the 90s, that the park should be free and the park open late, essentially just going back in time 20 years, rather than championing new ideas which would work I today’s market. If we want the park to succeed, we should be thinking what’s going to make it a success based on the modern world and modern visiting habits, not just “let’s do what they did in the 90s”

Back in the 90s, for reasons already pointed out, Blackpool, the U.K. and the world are very different places.

They either need to go back to the early 2000s of a mixture of wristbands and sensibly priced tickets or ticket sheets or become a better theme park. Maybe if charging entry it could be combined with a ticket sheet so you can get a couple of rides in for £20 rather than the current pricing where most major rides are £10 on top of entry price. £20 including one A ticket and two Bs could be a good deal.

Or they need to actually show off why they are as good as Alton Towers or Drayton Manor and worthwhile of going to Blackpool just for the pleasure beach. At the moment they are trying to offer the same pricing at Alton Towers but the only thing going for BPB is quantity, whereas AT with Wickerman and similar offers quality (ie slightly more theming).

 

[Dipper_Dave]

If we want the park to succeed, we should be thinking what’s going to make it a success based on the modern world and modern visiting habits, not just “let’s do what they did in the 90s”

As @shakey has pointed out, seaside parks like Great Yarmouth can make it work and not haemorrhage money like BPB are doing. There should be a better & more feasible alternative to wristbands for those who want to walk round and maybe do 2 rides. We’ve been over and over this, BPB is a seaside amusement park, not a theme park. You turn up to the likes of Alton & Thorpe to just go there for the day. People go to Blackpool for other stuff and for too many years haven’t had a reasonable option to just go in for a couple of hours and have a small number of rides.

The park are too stubborn to admit that some of their choices have failed. How can they not see this when their huge losses are staring them in the face? Yes things have changed since the 90s but they should offer a better deal for walk up trade and open later for peak weeks like school hols & illuminations time, even just trial it for one season and see how it goes. If they lose even more money than they are doing now (unlikely), then they can stop it. But I think it’s silly of them to not even try something different if they are losing money hand over fist. What have they got to lose?

Also if we are going back to the 90s, let’s have Log Flume, Monorail, Space Invader, Cableway & Wild Mouse back!

 

[shakey]

Covid has been the biggest reason that the park has struggled this year. For most of the season Blackpool has been in tier 2 or tier 3 and people have been deterred from visiting both for the day and for overnight trips, not to mention that Scotland, much of their catchment area, has been under different restrictions.

The accounts figures I posted have absolutely nothing to do with Covid - and even the parks next set of accounts will not really be affected by covid (because they will be for the period ending March 2020) . Although I am sure they will claim Covid as an excuse, plus Weather, Brexit, Recession, Donald Trump, The Wars of the Roses - and any other excuse they can think of apart from - THE WRONG BL**DY BUSINESS MODEL

You say “it’s not working” but this doesn’t mean that just giving up on all the great work that the park has done since the mid noughties and going back to the funfair style entry system of the 90s would be the answer to all their problems.

And what great work is this? - Look at the figures, the park have been shedding cash since 2006, and since the walk round charge was introduced they have made an overall loss in every year apart from one.

 

[Benjsh]

I honestly think BPB has too many attractions personally for them to remain profitable.

Immediately you might think.....WHAT?! An enthusiast complaining about having too much to do? I'm definitely not complaining. I'm merely pointing out that for every ride they have there it requires staff to run it and regular maintenance.

And I'd imagine that you could take away 15% of the rides at PB and it would barely make an impact on most people's day out.

 

[AT86]

I thought it might be interesting to look into the accounts of some other ‘traditional seaside amusement parks’ that operate under the free entry/pay per ride model, because there seems to be lots of assumptions that this would work better for BPB. It makes for interesting reading.

Based on the last filed accounts:

Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach - £100,000 loss

Adventure Island - £1.7m loss

Bottons Skegness - £234,000 loss

Barry Island - £30,000 loss

The caveat to that is that due to some of these businesses being smaller than BPB they don’t all have to file as much detailed information, so getting the profit/loss figure isn’t an exact science, but it can be inferred.

I think it still shows that it isn’t quite as simple as BPB reverting to a pay per ride model just because they are by the sea, it doesn’t mean the profits will come.

 

[shakey]

I thought it might be interesting to look into the accounts of some other ‘traditional seaside amusement parks’ that operate under the free entry/pay per ride model, because there seems to be lots of assumptions that this would work better for BPB. It makes for interesting reading.

Based on the last filed accounts:

Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach - £100,000 loss

Adventure Island - £1.7m loss

Bottons Skegness - £234,000 loss

Barry Island - £30,000 loss

The caveat to that is that due to some of these businesses being smaller than BPB they don’t all have to file as much detailed information, so getting the profit/loss figure isn’t an exact science, but it can be inferred.

I think it still shows that it isn’t quite as simple as BPB reverting to a pay per ride model just because they are by the sea, it doesn’t mean the profits will come.

Taking Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach as an example - the last two sets of accounts don't have clear numbers stating profit or loss - so I have no idea how you worked out a £100,000 loss (I will just take your word for it ), but if you go back to accounts from 2018 and before, there are clear figures displayed for operating profit and loss.....

2018: +£409,584
2017: +£210,272
2016: +£214,072
2015: +£125,300
2014: +£14,646

 

[pluk]

Based on the last filed accounts:

Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach - £100,000 loss

Adventure Island - £1.7m loss

Bottons Skegness - £234,000 loss

Barry Island - £30,000 loss

My not sure where you are getting those numbers from, but the past filed accounts from Adventure Islands owners Stockvale are from 2018 and show a growth in cash reserves of nearly three quarters of a million pounds and a reduction in liabilities of 3 million pounds. Not sure how they'd do that while losing a million and a half quid on their primary business?

I'm sure there are advantageous tax implications beyond my understanding for downplaying your profitability and moving profits as costs to internal subsidiaries (hello Merlin Magic Making), but there is nothing about the way Adventure Island is going about its business that suggests it's not making money.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

I’m not sure why the example of other seaside amusement parks keeps being used as an argument to go back to pay per ride.

For one thing, BPB is significantly larger than other seaside amusement parks and is much better positioned to market itself using the theme park business model as, unlike most seaside amusement parks, it offers a full day experience. As has already been mentioned, there aren’t enough people staying in Blackpool who fit BPB’s demographic to justify it operating as a place where you just “pop in whilst on holiday”

They are now marketing at people visiting Blackpool for the Pleasure Beach, in the same way that people travel to theme parks just for the park. To suggest that BPB have the wrong business model because they don’t operate in the same way as the piers, Fantasy Island or Barry Island Fun Park, just isn’t comparing like for like.

Secondly, most of the medium to large seaside amusement parks have actually moved away from pay per ride anyway; the move which people are claiming has been the death of BPB. The likes of Adventure Island encourage wristbands and, in all my many visits to AI, I’ve only ever seen one family using ride tokens.

Now let’s look at Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach. They have also, for years been strongly encouraging wristbands and this year, for the first time, they have got rid of wristbands and tokens and are requiring everyone to pay an entry fee for unlimited rides. This obviously, before anyone says anything, was put in place due to capacity limitations because of covid. However, judging by their social media, this has been a massive success and they have had to add more dates due to demand and have sold out on most of the days they’ve been open.

If BPB made such a “big mistake” introducing the entrance charge in 2005, if it has lost them so much money, why has the system stayed in place for 15 years?

They’re a business, they want to be financially successful whilst still ensuring customer satisfaction and repeat custom. Yes, pay per ride might make them more money in the short term but the current entrance charge gives guests better value for money and makes them want to return as they know exactly how much they’ll be spending. Long term guest satisfaction is far more important than short term gain.

 

[pluk]

I’m not sure why the example of other seaside amusement parks keeps being used as an argument to go back to pay per ride.

Secondly, most of the medium to large seaside amusement parks have actually moved away from pay per ride anyway; the move which people are claiming has been the death of BPB. The likes of Adventure Island encourage wristbands and, in all my many visits to AI, I’ve only ever seen one family using ride tokens.

I think because other seaside parks do not seem to be losing money like Blackpool are?

The thing with the likes of Adventure Island is they are having the best of both worlds. I'm sure the vast majority of riders are a wrist band purchase effectively on a theme park model. But a lot of visitors aren't riding at all, or just one or two rides, but are still spending on refreshments, arcades or a game of crazy golf. The other huge advantage of this is you have a headline price of FREE, it draws people in to look who then make a decision, and based on the price structure will often go for the wrist band over a couple of tokens. With the full theme park model a visitor has to make a conscious decision to pay a not insignificant full theme park entry price before they've arrived, and everyone coming has to pay it rather than only committing for kids or those who want to ride.

I've got no idea if coming away from the theme park model is the right thing to do, but it's apparent something needs to change if the park is going to survive, let alone thrive.

 

[rob666]

Blackpool now has far more day trippers than holidaymakers, that is the main change in its visitor base.
The town gets many visitors, a tiny proportion of them spend the day at the Beach.
They need to widen their punter base.
Many don't want a full day on the Beach, but the pricing system forces them into a full day or nothing.
They miss out on the grandparents and non riders who used to pack the bars, cafes, shops and arcades, spending a fortune while the kids did the rides.
Make ride tickets affordable again, cut entry to a fiver with a fiver voucher to spend on anything, including gaming tokens, they would mop up an awful lot of money that goes onto the piers and Coral Island.
The reason why they haven't changed their system is because it is a small family firm, Mandy is in charge, and woe betide anyone who crosses her.
The current system has failed for years, and needs to change.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

I think because other seaside parks do not seem to be losing money like Blackpool are?

The thing with the likes of Adventure Island is they are having the best of both worlds. I'm sure the vast majority of riders are a wrist band purchase effectively on a theme park model. But a lot of visitors aren't riding at all, or just one or two rides, but are still spending on refreshments, arcades or a game of crazy golf. The other huge advantage of this is you have a headline price of FREE, it draws people in to look who then make a decision, and based on the price structure will often go for the wrist band over a couple of tokens. With the full theme park model a visitor has to make a conscious decision to pay a not insignificant full theme park entry price before they've arrived, and everyone coming has to pay it rather than only committing for kids or those who want to ride.

I've got no idea if coming away from the theme park model is the right thing to do, but it's apparent something needs to change if the park is going to survive, let alone thrive.

I personally feel that the current model should stay. I wouldn’t want BPB to go completely in the direction of just pay one price and that’s the only option, however an entrance charge needs to stay.

Adventure Island does have the headline of free entry, but BPB actually offers better value for non-riders than theme parks do, and I don’t feel they shout about it enough.

A point was made on PBE’s Facebook page a while back that BPB are the only major park in the U.K. to offer a non-rider fee. For £5 (as it was then), people can visit for the whole day with their family and not have to cough up full price. This is actually a great offer and BPB should shout about it more. If the theme parks introduced a non-rider £10 entry change, people would be praising them, yet BPB are labelled as villains for doing it, purely because people can’t let go of the park’s former funfair style of operation.

 

[jon81uk]

I personally feel that the current model should stay. I wouldn’t want BPB to go completely in the direction of just pay one price and that’s the only option, however an entrance charge needs to stay.

Adventure Island does have the headline of free entry, but BPB actually offers better value for non-riders than theme parks do, and I don’t feel they shout about it enough.

A point was made on PBE’s Facebook page a while back that BPB are the only major park in the U.K. to offer a non-rider fee. For £5 (as it was then), people can visit for the whole day with their family and not have to cough up full price. This is actually a great offer and BPB should shout about it more. If the theme parks introduced a non-rider £10 entry change, people would be praising them, yet BPB are labelled as villains for doing it, purely because people can’t let go of the park’s former funfair style of operation.

I think the difference is that people might go for a day to the seaside not sure if they will go to Adventure Island, wander in and then decide to get wristbands.
Whereas a theme park day out is more planned out, except for AP holders I don't think many people spontaneously visit AT. BPB feels like it is in the same group as AT, they just offer a discount to non-riders. Its not come and have a look round the park, and go in the maze for £10, its either get a wristband or non rides can just pay for entry.

 

[Plastic Person]

The reason why they haven't changed their system is because it is a small family firm, Mandy is in charge, and woe betide anyone who crosses her.
The current system has failed for years, and needs to change.

This is the rub, I think. Being a family firm gives the park a greater sense of business and creative autonomy than anything under Merlin, but there's no way that such consistent losses would be tolerated under shareholders or a board.

 

[rob666]

BPB feels like it is in the same group as AT, they just offer a discount to non-riders. Its not come and have a look round the park, and go in the maze for £10, its either get a wristband or non rides can just pay for entry.

You get the train, wonderful fountains, River Caves and Bradley and Bellas lovely garden as well as the maze for your tenner.

 

[jon81uk]

You get the train, wonderful fountains, River Caves and Bradley and Bellas lovely garden as well as the maze for your tenner.

Ah yeah I forgot they added the River Caves onto the pass.

But I don't expect there are many people paying that just for a look round and those rides. They are getting a "discount" for not buying a wristband, everyone else visiting in their group/family is probably getting bands.

 

[rob666]

Grandma and grandpa now tend to go round the shops and piers for the day, meeting up with the clan in the Velvet at closing time on the Beach...in their thousands!

 

[Poisson]

I think the thing with BPB is several mistakes in one.

Entry

BPB seems to neither be committed to POP or PAYR but stuck in such a limbo. Nobody is going to pay a tenner for PMBO when entry is £20. It seems like there must be elements high up in management that are clinging to PAYR as it used to work. If they're gonna charge so much per ride, they need to abandon it or lower the prices per ride as the prices are too high to pay for a single ride really.

Opening Hours

The park love opening an hour before 90% of the rides open. This staggering just seems a bit odd, like you waste that first hour from 10 to 11. I think the park would do much better opening from 12 on off peak days and say 2 on the lowest days and 11 on the busy days. All rides open at once, no stagger. Mandy clearly loves Liseberg so I'm surprised she hasn't looked at how their opening hours work. Opening 11 - 11 or even a nice marketing thing of Midday-Midnight would be good and opening say 2 - 8 on low days may work better. It may work worse. However the park clearly has to try something else and evening trade would probably be better especially if you get into your accommodation for 3 and then head to park for say 7 hours.

Marketing

Blackpool is 2 hours from me. I have never seen any marketing whatsoever from PB themselves this side of the Pennines. The furthest from park I've seen advertising is the Trafford Centre. Maybe I'm too far, but I'd see 2 hours as a perfectly reasonable drive and know many others would do too. Blackpool takes less time to get to by driving or public transport than Skegvegas, but Skeg remains popular and crucially the nearest park to Skeg, Fantasy Island, does indeed advertise occasionally through summer here. Hell I was in Skeg and the visit Blackpool advert came on TV but the PB do not advertise themselves.

Image Confusion

BPB seems to suffer massively from not knowing what it is. There's no clear direction with the park whether it wants to stay as an amusement park or try and be a theme park or what it is. This just leads to a muddle with things not quite working (Icon and Rev, I'm looking at you)

 

[Benjsh]

^^^

Probably because they spend all their money maintaining rides that are close to 100 years old. There's probably not enough money left in the pot for national advertising. I'm sure they'd do it if they could afford to.

It's a fair criticism though. Their marketing is incredibly poor. I actually don't really rate the place these days and think it would be great to have some new lifeblood take over from the Thompsons and put some life back into the place. It's clear they don't have the money to keep the park going looking at the figures posted a few pages back. It's heading only one way sadly.

 

[ringo]

Image Confusion

BPB seems to suffer massively from not knowing what it is. There's no clear direction with the park whether it wants to stay as an amusement park or try and be a theme park or what it is. This just leads to a muddle with things not quite working (Icon and Rev, I'm looking at you)

100% this.

Currently they are calling & marketing themselves as a theme park

“Enjoy a fun day out at the UK's most ride intensive theme park.”

“UK’s most ICONic Theme Park”

 

[Dipper_Dave]

And I'd imagine that you could take away 15% of the rides at PB and it would barely make an impact on most people's day out.

They’ve already taken enough rides out in recent years and not replaced them.