Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

[John]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

Who decides what the true classics are? I probably wouldn't count Dipper amongst them, personally I'd place Flying Machines, Derby Racer, River Caves and Mouse ahead of it. Probably Nash too due to it being a Mobius. Equally, Nick Streak used part of Velvet Coaster in its construction, so could arguably be classed as a 1907 ride. With Dipper's redesign in the mid-30s I think it's hardly more worthy of it's 1923 date than Streak would be of a 1907 date.

Even as old coasters go, I wouldn't say Dipper is particularly significant either - it's one of 4 similar rides within a single park. If it was a Virginia Reel, side-friction or brakeman coaster then there would be much more of a case for preserving it, but Dipper isn't really that far removed from rides built recently.

Should the park keep it? Yes, whilst it remains practical and economic for them to do so. I don't feel they should be forced to keep it should it become a serious burden to them.

 

[Adam James]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

Didn't they spend £500,000 on repairs after the accident in 2009? Surely that's enough to ensure it survives for a good few years to come?

You'd think that, but then again BPB Ltd had invested quite a bit of money to the upkeep of their Southport woodies when this happened..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb_RMoL3QvM&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://youtu.be/CnilVKUgCrk[/youtube]

...and the thought of one of my childhood coasters being chopped up with no care still rather upsets me. Also, you have to bear in mind that their major Morecambe woodie was also destroyed in this fashion.

Thankfully, the wooden Wild Mouse is in storage and is just awaiting the green light from Thanet District Council before it can be assembled once again in Margate. Somehow (perhaps due to its compact nature) it survived both the closures of Frontierland and Pleasureland.

 

[Alastair]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

If the Big Dipper is destroyed, enthusiasts of a hundred years in the future will look back at us, and PBB management, with shame. They'll ask how we could not only have let it happen, but have been in favour of the destruction of a ride that has been operating since 1923, the eighth oldest operating rollercoaster in the world.

I wonder if enthusiasts in other parts of the world are equally advocating the obliteration of the other seven. Are Kennywood fans calling for the Jack Rabbit to be ripped down for a Mack? Do Tivoli Gardens fans salivate at the thought of a wrecking ball through the Rutschebanen? I doubt it, they'd be appalled at such joyous vandalism of the past, and so should we.

Then again, both Tivoli and Kennywood have significantly more space than PBB and have both recently installed modern thrill rides in Dæmonen and Sky Rocket. PBB simply have to remove an existing ride to make space for a new one - and the worst one has to go, which is unfortunately the Big Dipper. Leaving something there for the sake of it is just pointless - and in addition it's unrecognisable from its original layout in 1923 anyway.

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

You could build a new thrill seeker pleasing coaster almost anywhere in the world but you can't say the same for experiencing these increasingly rare pieces of history. They need protecting at all costs and if that means BPB has to become a part heritage park with limited expansion potential, so be it.

 

[Alastair]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

You could build a new thrill seeker pleasing coaster almost anywhere in the world but you can't say the same for experiencing these increasingly rare pieces of history. They need protecting at all costs and if that means BPB has to become a part heritage park with limited expansion potential, so be it.

Not sure many others would agree with watching it die a slow death for the sake of "heritage?"

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

Heritage sites do just fine in the tourism/visitor attraction business but despite that, it wouldn't be the end of all development either. All it means is they would have to be more creative with the land filled with more recent additions.

 

[Spike]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

I suppose it just boils down to personal choice really and your definition of a classic. Are people wanting the ride to remain because it's old or because they like it? Or a bit of both?

I for one despise the ride and refuse to ride it, I think it's unsafe. I don't enjoy it and it doesn't offer any thrill or excitement for me. I'm sorry but it would be my first ride on the chopping block for modernisation of the park.

I would rather see the other 4 woodies remain as they each have their own unique history or qwerk and don't take up so much room. It is a double edged sword really. The Pleasure Beach is fast running out of room and MUST invest in something massive within the next few years. It cannot compete with the big boys with medium investments forever. I feel it has to do something within the next 3 years.

I really admire & respect the fact Mandy is investing heavily year upon year in making the place less trashy and more aesthetically pleasing along with giving existing rides a new lease of life, but they need something big soon to put them back on the map.

What I would find interesting to know is what the general public would feel. Offering them the choice of keeping The Big Dipper or removal for something world class. The Pleasure Beach was bringing in new rides to the UK before Alton was even in nappies, it's high time Mandy took a leaf out her Dads book and thought outside the box. Classic rides do not sustain business forever.

Let me ask you this question: Would this much fuss be kicked up if River Caves were removed? I very much doubt it and that was built in 1905.

 

[John]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

For me it not about the park having historical rides, it's about having great rides. I don't want to see a good ride removed from any park - the age of the ride isn't really relevant.

I don't really see rides as having the same sort of historical significance as a building (or whatever). Old rides should be kept on merit, not just because they've been around for ages.

As for the River Caves, I'd be extremely disappointed to see it go as it's genuinely one of my favourite dark rides, but I wouldn't have any complaint in terms of heritage.

 

[Dave]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

I don't see the Big Dipper as that historical, It's 1923 build date is a joke as it has been significantly rebuilt since and it isn't that historically significant. Heritage doesn't just mean old, it means it has historical significance. The Southport Cyclone did, as does a number of other rides but of all of the 50+ year old woodies the Dipper is least significant of the lot.

 

[CGM]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

I can't believe the attitude of seemingly most people on here. Just because you may not think much of the quality of the ride doesn't make it any less historically significant than any other coaster in the park.

It's true that its layout was changed but this isn't unusual for coasters of its age and the change was still around 80 years ago. It is also true that Blackpool has a number of other old woodies but the number of classic coasters and rides that operate there are what gives PB its unique charm. If you take these away it becomes just another park. The idea of preservation is to protect as many examples of something as possible no to whittle the number of examples down to one and conserve that. I would sooner see the Big One demolished than any of the woodies in the park, that takes up enough space.

Also, if Big Dipper is demolished, that could well set a precedent and before we know it most of PB's wooden classics are gone.

 

[Tim]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

I am neither against or for its removal but thought I'd have my say anyway.

While the ride is a classic in terms of age I've never seen any other reason why it is especially worth saving. It was The Big One of its day; the iconic coaster at the front of the park to pull in the punters. But it has never been an outstanding example of that type of ride. The Roller Coaster (now Nick Streak) has more classic charm. The Grand National is more novel. Wild Mouse is insane and fairly unique. And as far as age is concerned I actually count Great Yarmouth's Roller Coaster as the more age significant ride as it is a classic side friction scenic railway which really is a dying breed.

On the other hand I disagree in the removal of any major or iconic ride unless absolutely necessary. I'd be far happier if they decided to re-profile the ride once again to bring it up-to-date while keeping the classic charm.
I also can't see why they would have to replace it to fit in another ride. It takes up a fairly straight section of land which runs alongside Infusion and the Big Blue Hotel, neither of which are going anywhere soon. If its replacement is going to be a Roller Coaster then why not build over and around the Big Dipper? As far as I can see The Big One is the real development issue as its track runs straight through the otherwise vacant concrete area that used to be part of the log flume.

 

[Harv]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

To Keep:

• Has a reputation with the public/is iconic of Blackpool.
• Popular with most riders

To scrap:

• Old and no longer impressive.
• Outclassed by Nickelodeon Streak, in the same park.
• Expensive to maintain/carry on repairing
• Possibly unsafe/unlikely to continue being safe for much longer.

That's my opinion, anyway. ???

 

[DiogoJ42]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

Surely BPB can just continue their fine tradition of building new rides high above their older ones? Then everyone is happy.

 

[Scott]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

Surely BPB can just continue their fine tradition of building new rides high above their older ones? Then everyone is happy.

PBB - the multi-storey car park of the theme park industry.

 

[BigAl]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

I thought I'd take a look at the PB on Bing and Google Maps to see which parts of the park could potentially be used for a new ride in the future and I thought I'd make a picture to show some places.

1: Space Invader building (not sure how much of the area could be used because of the pizza restaurant).
2: The area between Avalanche and Big Dipper.
3: Infusion plot and the vacant space behind it.
4: Space where Bling used to be and the entrance/exit are on the other side of the Big Dipper and Big One track.
5: Arcade and three small eateries (opposite the fountains).

I made it quickly and I don't know whether or not there'd be any point in using all of those places, however, I wanted to show that the Pleasure Beach can still add big attractions without needing to remove a major attraction such as the Big Dipper.

Anyone know any other locations that I haven't mentioned, or know whether or not any of the locations that I've highlighted could be used for new rides?

 

[DiogoJ42]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

What about the area behind Valhalla / old Vikingar site? It could even interact with Nash and give a much needed cleen up to the area under it's track.

 

[BigAl]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

I did have a look at that and wondered if that + part of the car park / bus park could be used too but I don't know whether they could + I had no idea that there had been a ride behind Valhalla before. I may need a new image.

 

[Sam]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

Why do people want to rip out Dipper when Steeplechase is a) a worse ride b) less historically significant c) takes up more space?

Above three also apply to Grand Prix.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Michael]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

Why do people want to rip out Dipper when Steeplechase is a) a worse ride b) less historically significant c) takes up more space?

Above three also apply to Grand Prix.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

I really can't see the Big Dipper or Steeplechase being removed for a long time yet.

For one Steeplechase interacts with the Big Dipper and Nickelodeon Streak as well as going over the maze and you wouldn't really fit much into that space tbh.

They want to knock the sawyer bridge and the Grand Prix down, this would open up plenty of room for a new coaster and the ride could easily go over the Big Dipper and use the area behind Infusion.

 

[Dave]

Re: Pleasure Beach, Blackpool: General Discussion

The idea of preservation isn't to protect every example of something otherwise no new building project would ever be green-lit in this country. Preservation requires that the example be unique or historically significant to be protected which is why roller coasters do struggle to get listed status.

Of every old woodie in this country i would say the Big Dipper is the least historically significant with little to no uniqueness and has been altered significantly in it's history. If it doesn't need to go for the development of the park of course it should stay. But at some point hard decisions are going to have to be made at Blackpool about their space and i think people are just nailing their flag to the coasters they think deserve the greatest protection.

Won't matter anyway as English Heritage have shown mostly disdain to the historical significance of roller coasters so Blackpool will likely be able to do what they want with any of their woodies.