Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

[AstroDan]

If you don't think Alton Towers cope very well with high numbers, then I am afraid you aren't going to find many parks in Europe that do.

If there is one thing you usually get from AT on busier days it is good operations. Aside from Disneyland Paris and Europa-Park - Alton is one of the better parks in Europe at running rides on good capacity.

Nemesis easily gets 1,200+
Air easily gets 1,100+
Rita easily gets 900+
Smiler easily gets 900+
Oblivion easily gets 1,200+
Th13teen easily gets 1,200+

And these aren't theoretical. These are what they actually achieve.

RE: The Smiler in 2013 - it was new, it was dire. That isn't typical of Alton Towers and The Smiler when running flat out performs very well now relative to what it can achieve. Rita and Air had non stop capacity problems in their first years, too.

 

[Coaster]

How often does The Smiler actually run flat out though? The same applies for Thirteen, it's quite often only running two trains on busy days, as it was at Scarefest a few years ago.

 

[AstroDan]

The Smiler runs flat out most of the time on 5 trains! In fact it runs 5 trains and it doesn't even need to run 5! I wish a member of staff from the ride would post after this and state the same.

Th13teen nearly ALWAYS runs three!?

I am respectfully leaving this inane discussion.

 

[Coaster]

The Smiler runs flat out most of the time on 5 trains! In fact it runs 5 trains and it doesn't even need to run 5! I wish a member of staff from the ride would post after this and state the same.

Th13teen nearly ALWAYS runs three!?

I think that's a bit of an overexaggeration, I have only seen The Smiler running five trains once out of all my visits, unless they have a sixth which they leave in the transfer track?
As for Thirteen running three, it may well run three often, when I've been there it is quite often only running two trains.


With regards to coping with crowds on busy days, I think it's worth considering that at BPB you have three more hours to get on everything than at Alton during the summer holidays and other busy times.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

You're bringing opening hours into this? Really? BPB open 11:00-5:00 on Sunday's when Thorpe and Towers are usually open 9:30-6:00. Yes ok they open late in the summer holidays but on the whole I really wouldn't say that BPB's hours are that great. And it's irrelevant anyway. If operations at a park are poor I'm not going to hang around. I'd much rather spend 4 hours in a well operated park than spend 8 hours in a badly operated park. The latter would be a far more miserable experience so opening hours is pretty much irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Coaster]

You're bringing opening hours into this? Really? BPB open 11:00-5:00 on Sunday's when Thorpe and Towers are usually open 9:30-6:00. Yes ok they open late in the summer holidays but on the whole I really wouldn't say that BPB's hours are that great. And it's irrelevant anyway. If operations at a park are poor I'm not going to hang around. I'd much rather spend 4 hours in a well operated park than spend 8 hours in a badly operated park. The latter would be a far more miserable experience so opening hours is pretty much irrelevant to this discussion.

That's because BPB is typically very quiet on Sundays in comparison to Saturdays - notice it was open 10am - 8pm on Saturday.

BPB's opening hours are poor for where they are (as a seaside resort they should be open into the night) but compared to major parks in the UK they aren't that bad IMO.

I also find that Thorpe and Chessington are much worse operated than BPB and I still manage to get good ridecounts at the PB in busy days, I leave the lower capacity rides until the queues die down usually.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

If you say so.

I don't know a huge amount about Chessington but I know that most of Thorpe Park's coasters frequently achieve 900-1200 per hour. I doubt that Blackpool's coasters even come close to that. And before you start lecturing me about how Thorpe's coasters ran one train the day you were there, I know for a fact that at weekends thy nearly always run two. I don't think I've ever visited BPB and seen every ride run at full capacity. And by that I'm referring to the rather poor modern day capacities which a re a joke anyway compared to what those rides could achieve.

 

[John]

Here are some typical throughput figures of BPB's major coasters, based on my own experience (all are capable of much more):

PMBO: 850
Dipper: 700 (though it will probably be less now due to the new station layout)
Infusion: 600
Nash: 600
Avalanche: 600

Those are the highest capacity coasters, and the numbers are moving in the wrong direction largely due to the poor implementation of speedy pass and the gradual accumulation of changes intended to improve safety (reducing mouse to 4 cars, steeple to 3 horses, the new station layout on dipper etc). Add all these together and BPB is nowhere near as well equipped as it used to be to deal with crowds.

The continuing push towards increased safety will further reduce throughputs, as we're also seeing in a major way at Chessington.

 

[Coaster]

If you say so.

I don't know a huge amount about Chessington but I know that most of Thorpe Park's coasters frequently achieve 900-1200 per hour. I doubt that Blackpool's coasters even come close to that. And before you start lecturing me about how Thorpe's coasters ran one train the day you were there, I know for a fact that at weekends thy nearly always run two. I don't think I've ever visited BPB and seen every ride run at full capacity. And by that I'm referring to the rather poor modern day capacities which a re a joke anyway compared to what those rides could achieve.

Thorpe is my local park, do not try to tell me that they run two trains most weekends because it is simply not true! I have visited ten times this year so far (nearly all on weekends) and one train operation/two on X has been the case on most visits.

 

[Burbs]

Thorpe is my local park, do not try to tell me that they run two trains most weekends because it is simply not true! I have visited ten times this year so far (nearly all on weekends) and one train operation/two on X has been the case on most visits.

And Alton is @AstroDan's (and many other member's, including my own)local park, so don't try to tell us that particular rides run less trains than they actually normally do, because it is simply not true!

 

[Coaster]

And Alton is @AstroDan's (and many other member's, including my own)local park, so don't try to tell us that particular rides run less trains than they actually normally do, because it is simply not true!

As I said, I can only go by what I see at Alton and I have seen rides on the same capacity at the same time of year several years in a row, I thought I made it clear that I don't visit regularly tbh.

 

[Alastair]

Not sure why anyone would be questioning the operations at Alton Towers. Only twice in the last four years have I seen Nemesis on one train, and on both of those days (one was February half-term 2 years ago, and the other this last Tuesday) they were barely even filling the single train let alone a queue developing because of it.

Meanwhile, I've lost count of the number of times I've seen Infusion on one train with a queue back to the stairs. Or the Grand National with a queue back down the stairs and out into the plaza in the same scenario. These are situations which are simply never found at Alton Towers, or in fact any park worth its salt.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

Thorpe is my local park, do not try to tell me that they run two trains most weekends because it is simply not true! I have visited ten times this year so far (nearly all on weekends) and one train operation/two on X has been the case on most visits.

BPB is my local park and, as I said, I've never visited and seen every coaster on the capacity it requires. The fact that PBE always make such a big deal about it on days when rides are at "capacity" (apparently one train on Streak is what they call capacity) just goes to show what a rarity it is. It's something I've never seen on every ride in the same day. As for Thorpe, whilst they sometimes, not always, start coasters on one train, the second usually gets added later in the day. This is mainly due to lack of engineers in the mornings for checks. BPB just seem incapable of it. I know that BPB can do no wrong in your eyes but you can't be seriously trying to tell me that the farsical throughputs on mouse, streak, grand national and ghost train are acceptable in comparison to the likes of swarm, stealth, nemesis, oblivion, air etc? I'm sorry but if you think that then you're just dilusional.

 

[Coaster]

BPB is my local park and, as I said, I've never visited and seen every coaster on the capacity it requires. The fact that PBE always make such a big deal about it on days when rides are at "capacity" (apparently one train on Streak is what they call capacity) just goes to show what a rarity it is. It's something I've never seen on every ride in the same day. As for Thorpe, whilst they sometimes, not always, start coasters on one train, the second usually gets added later in the day. This is mainly due to lack of engineers in the mornings for checks. BPB just seem incapable of it. I know that BPB can do no wrong in your eyes but you can't be seriously trying to tell me that the farsical throughputs on mouse, streak, grand national and ghost train are acceptable in comparison to the likes of swarm, stealth, nemesis, oblivion, air etc? I'm sorry but if you think that then you're just dilusional.

No I'm not! BPB is far from perfect in my eyes, the amount of times I've left the park fuming has been ridiculous this year.
No I am not saying the capacity is acceptable, it's a complete farce - Ghost Train sending one car round every 30 seconds is just nonsense, it used to run nearly double the number of cars with 10 - 15 second gaps, and Streak and National are both in dire need of attention. Mouse I can understand (to an extent) as it relies heavily on the ride ops, however with that said it used to manage fine running at least double the amount of cars it runs now.

However, there are only a few times where I have waited more than an hour for these rides, which in the case of the Streak and Ghost Train is down to "queue-dodging" (going on them at the beginning/end of the day) rather than their operations.

And Alastair, I do remember hearing about Nemesis running one train with only three rows open during FHT with long queues, at the same time of year Infusion was running one but it was full.

 

[John]

Thorpe don't come out of these comparisons very well at all. They're OK at weekends, though opening on 1 train often causes queues to get extremely long very quickly, but their off peak operations are often appalling. Generally, you won't see 2 train operation of "off-peak" days, regardless of how long the queues actually get. Waiting the best part of an hour (sometimes more) for any of Colossus, Inferno or Swarm is depressingly common.

BPB is fine on off peak days, as rides are waiting for more people to turn up, but can't cope with peak crowds. Thorpe don't cope very well on peak days either, or on 'quiet' days, but everything in between is OK.

 

[Rob]

I think that's a bit of an overexaggeration, I have only seen The Smiler running five trains once out of all my visits, unless they have a sixth which they leave in the transfer track?
As for Thirteen running three, it may well run three often, when I've been there it is quite often only running two trains.

It really is not an overexaggeration. For the vasy majority of the time during the operation of The Smiler is has run 5 trains when 5 trains have been available for use. Even when the park has been quiet The Smiler would run 5 trains.

Thirteen was on two trains for quite a bit earlier this year but that was down to a technical issues rather than simply choosing not to run three.

Operations at Alton Towers are not right at there peak but they are still some best in Europe. Trying to fault them is simply a waste of time. The rides also generally have good throughputs, of course there is the odd ride that does not but the same can be said for every park.

 

[Rick]

Alton operations are the best in the UK by a country mile and perhaps the best in the Merlin group as a whole.

Pleasure Beach has woeful capacity, even on peak days. Rides literally move half as many people a they have done so in the past. Safety & reliability are the primary driver behind this trend and on that basis, I don't really blame the park. It is what it is. Unfortunately, the issue is made worse by the fact that

• people (rightly, or wrongly) compare current day operations to those of the 1990s (and before).
• the implementation of Speedy Pass is very, very poor
• the queues at the park are not the nicest places in the world

 

[shakey]

o

...Meanwhile, I've lost count of the number of times I've seen Infusion on one train with a queue back to the stairs. Or the Grand National with a queue back down the stairs and out into the plaza in the same scenario. These are situations which are simply never found at Alton Towers, or in fact any park worth its salt.

It doesn't really matter if a ride queue spills out into the general park when the queue itself is relatively small. Nash, mouse and Avalanche can all have queues longer than the queue pens but still only be 30 minutes wait. PB don't have the space for massively long queue pens as the park was not designed for the modern pay once for all system and space is very much at a premium. Ride through-puts and size of queue pens are both irrelevant if you are still queuing for long periods.

There is no denying that AT can cope with much bigger crowds than PB, it covers 900 acres (according to wiki) where PB is less than 50, and ride through puts are generally better, but a park that size which is capable of letting in well over 20,000 guests should really have more rides on offer to keep queues shorter at busy times.

Going back to the PB popularity debate, you would have to say that if you give 1000 people the option for a free ticket to either Alton, Thorpe or Blackpool then Blackpool would probably come a distant 3rd place. Whether that is down to the actual rides & peoples knowledge of the rides, the image that Blackpool has or just a much better marketing campaign from merlin is another debate.

 

[Jordan]

As much as I love Blackpool (and I really do!), Alton is just in a completely different league when it comes to scale.

There's a difference between a park where every ride has a fairly modern ride system and a full operations team, and a park where the majority of rides you go on are old, cramped and patched up. It certainly has plenty of charm that way, but you simply cannot compare the two.

 

[Rick]

A park that size which is capable of letting in well over 20,000 guests should really have more rides on offer to keep queues shorter at busy times.

The difficulty with that of course is that you have to run, staff & maintain those rides on all days - not just the busy ones. I was at Pleasure Beach on Wednesday last week and the park was DEAD! Valhalla was running four 6-person boats and they were waiting for people in the station. Likewise, the Big One had 60% of a single train open and there was no queue - at all.

There's a difference between a park where every ride has a fairly modern ride system and a full operations team, and a park where the majority of rides you go on are old, cramped and patched up. It certainly has plenty of charm that way, but you simply cannot compare the two.

There is a difference, but the pricing is pretty comparable and they both ultimately offer a day out, which is comparable in that regard.