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Britain and foreign languages

Im the token Deedah at work, rest of the lads mostly being Tykes. Even that description alone confuses people from this country, let alone from abroad.

I've always found hello, please, thank you and sorry the minimum to get away with on trips. I spoke no Polish and heading into Zatorland where there was no English at all was an interesting experience. Google Translate just about saved us.
 
I am just back from Belgium and Germany. We are indeed an embarrassment when it comes to foreign languages, and many Europenas speak better English that many Brits.

I can get by using basic French and German (ordering things etc.) and will always try to make the effort. For me the worst is when you start the day in one country and end in another. On Friday we started in Germany and ended up in a French speaking area of Belgium. I ordered the drinks from the bar in French no problem, the proceeded to say thank you in German thanks to my brain reverting to autopilot!
 
Rob said:
I am just back from Belgium and Germany. We are indeed an embarrassment when it comes to foreign languages, and many Europenas speak better English that many Brits.

I can get by using basic French and German (ordering things etc.) and will always try to make the effort. For me the worst is when you start the day in one country and end in another. On Friday we started in Germany and ended up in a French speaking area of Belgium. I ordered the drinks from the bar in French no problem, the proceeded to say thank you in German thanks to my brain reverting to autopilot!
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I've done that before, got back home to the UK after two weeks in Spain, couldn't help but say thanks in Spanish for a bit.
 
Rob said:
I can get by using basic French and German (ordering things etc.) and will always try to make the effort. For me the worst is when you start the day in one country and end in another. On Friday we started in Germany and ended up in a French speaking area of Belgium. I ordered the drinks from the bar in French no problem, the proceeded to say thank you in German thanks to my brain reverting to autopilot!
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I always remember years back @Sammy saying Danke or something similar at a UK McDonald’s when his food got handed over to him, and the staff member gave him the weirdest look ever.
 
Think the major problem is we learn it too late, I studied French from years 7-11 and did OK at it. Also did one year of Spanish, personally I'd have thought another hour of French, or maybe German would've been more useful.

However other than a trip to France with the school there was never cause for using the language outside of the classroom (plus the whole thing of feeling embarrassed when you did try it). So I've probably forgotten most of it.

I do try and learn a few basics, but always then get worried that the natives will actually try and start a full on conversation with me.
 
I'm not a linguist in the slightest but I always feel guilty if I end up somewhere I don't speak the language (either for leisure or for work, though to a lesser degree in the latter case as it wasn't my choice to go there).

I also struggle when switching between languages if I've been trying to think in a particular one for a a few days. I only know a few phrases of French and German but if I cross the border I usually find I've temporarily forgotten all of the words required for the country I've just entered. French and German GCSE exams on consecutive days were not a fun experience for me.
 
I was in France last year and went up to the bar to pay the bill. I'd been coached with the exact phrase to use by my significant other who speaks French like a native.

However the barman paused to put some glasses away, then looked back at me, and in that moment the phrase completely evaporated. That distraction was enough for me to forget every word I wanted to say. I had nothing. It was incredibly embarrassing as I was left there without a clue what to say, and ended up asking for it in English.

I'm also guilty of using another language after I got back from holiday. In my case it was saying Gracias to a Wetherspoons employee.
 
I do think the problem is partly that we learn languages too late. remember doing 3 years of French at school and that was when I was 11- 14 years old. By that point I think it’s too late and you are never really going to take it all in, especially when you only have a lesson or two a week and then never use it anywhere else.

And the other reason, as many have said is English is just used all over the world, so a lot of people don’t feel the need to learn, or even if they do, others all speak English anyway, as it’s such a worldwide language to use. Especially in Europe where many will learn English, so they can talk to people who aren’t even English but are from other parks of Europe.

You only have to go to most theme parks to find they will have signage in their own language and then usually English (and sometimes a neighbouring country).
 
I think part of the problem is they don't know which language should be our second language here in the UK (well in England anyway, slightly different in Wales). Some schools give you the option to switch to Spanish instead of French while some don't. Some places you learn German, some French. It's all very confusing and it really doesn't make sense. There needs to be a political decision on what language everyone should learn from Primary school up, that way people will be fairly good at said language. I personally, don't know whether Spanish or French makes better sense but I lean towards Spanish because A) more of the world speaks Spanish then French (actually more people speak Spanish as there first language than English) and B) Spain is the most common destination for British tourists and I don't see that changing anytime soon. There are also good arguments for learning French too.
 
Let's look to the future. Don't bother with French, German and Spanish, we should all be learning Russian.
 
One of the challenges of living on the fringes of Europe is figuring out which language(s) will be most useful to teach kids at a point in their lives that they can pick it/them up reasonably well.

I remember a very small amount of extra-curricular French when I was in the early years of primary school, then nothing until year 7. At that point things got complicated. The way it worked at my school was that each class was assigned either French or German in year 7 (split equally). From year 8 everyone took another foreign language from a choice of 2: the first would always be whichever of French/German you weren't already taking and the other option would change every year - for our year it was Russian, I think my brother (2 yrs below me) had the option of Spanish. I chose French mainly to avoid having to learn a new alphabet but also as I didn't think I'd be going to Russia at any point in the future. Nearly a quarter of a century later that assessment has yet to be proven wrong.

I always felt the system at my school was a pretty weird way of doing things. I can see from a logistical point of view why running lots of different languages for each year group would have been more difficult but at the same time it seemed odd to theoretically offer such a wide range of options but to not really give a lot of choice as to which ones you actually take. I was never offered Spanish, which 11 year old me would almost certainly have picked over German. Luckily I was later to discover Europa Park is far better than PortAventura so it all worked out in the end.
 
We learnt a tiny amount of French in Y6, we were meant to as well in Y5 but they never hired a teacher?! Then Y7 - 9 we had half do French, half do Spanish. 99% of kids don't care for either. I'd have cared if it was German but was forced to learn French. Luckily was in a technology school so could drop all languages at the end of Y9
 
Matt.GC said:
Every other person around understood what I was saying. But it shone a light on just how bad our regional English (especially mine) was, how much we take it for granted and just how stupid and confusing this must sound to people who learn Queens English as a foreign language and are bombarded with American English in Movies and on YouTube. I used to work in Bradford and even only 4 hours away by car neither of us could understand each other when we'd had a few pints.
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I get this all over. Working in Manchester a lot coming from Birmingham I’m really struggling at times to understand a word my colleagues are saying. And them me.

What is interesting is I’ve spent the last 10 years living out of Birmingham, and now my friends and family are saying I’m loosing my accent and have picked up a posher tone. I’m living in Stratford upon Avon which doesn’t really have an accent - unlike the local towns of Evesham, Redditch and the big nearby cities of Coventry and Birmingham.
 
Jb85 said:
What is interesting is I’ve spent the last 10 years living out of Birmingham, and now my friends and family are saying I’m loosing my accent and have picked up a posher tone. I’m living in Stratford upon Avon which doesn’t really have an accent - unlike the local towns of Evesham, Redditch and the big nearby cities of Coventry and Birmingham.
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Yeah I get this too. I didn't move miles away but I moved to Somerset when 19 and have raised a family here. My brother's who speak how I used to speak say I speak posh as my accent has become so mild. I've never lost the core of the language though, evenings are still teatime to me not dinner, dinnertime is the middle of the day not lunch and Ketchup is Red Sauce.

Oh and they also call Lottery "Lotchree" here, "Loh'ery" for me.
 
Jb85 said:
I’m living in Stratford upon Avon which doesn’t really have an accent - unlike the local towns of Evesham, Redditch and the big nearby cities of Coventry and Birmingham.
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I don't live in Stratford or Warwickshire however I do live in a medium sized town in the Midlands, I'd say we have a loose Midlander accent, we basically are a mix of everything, nothing in particular with it changing from town to town. Stratford are definitely a bit posher than some places in the area however I wouldn't say it was like Surrey posh
 
Interestingly one of my kids is in year 4 and has been doing Spanish in school this year. Their teacher spent some time living in Spain and speaks the language well so I think she has found the time to incorporate it into their weekly lessons which is pretty cool. I don’t think it’s part of the national curriculum or anything.

I didn’t start learning a language until year 7 when I took French. Then French and German in year 8 & 9 (after that I dropped languages altogether as I found them difficult and would have got **** grades). I still remember a fair bit of the French I learnt though despite being rubbish at it, it’s just stuck with me for some reason. Things like hello, goodbye, how are you?, do you speak English?, thank you, some numbers, months of the year etc. My French teacher in year 7/8 was really good so I think that helped. A good teacher can make all the difference when it comes to learning.

If we want more people to speak different languages in this country we need to start teaching it from a younger age. The first year of secondary school is far too late and many kids find it difficult and embarrassing at that age. I think kids pick up languages much easier when they start from a young age. It’s not something parents can teach unless they themselves speak another language, so school is one of the only places to implement it really.

We are lucky that English is a language that is used so commonly all over the world, but I think it has led to a bit of laziness when it comes to the uk population in general learning different languages. I do think it’s good manners to at least try and learn the basics when you visit a different country. I feel like it shows you are making an effort and have a genuine interest in the country you’re visiting. No one expects a holiday maker to be able to hold a full blown conversation but it’s not hard to say thanks in Spanish.
 
It's pretty much a cultural issue that is unlikely to change. Being introduced to languages in high school doesn't help, children definitely need exposure from a young age.

I did Welsh and French in school. My French is non-existent, my Welsh isn't too bad, but I would not be able to engage in a meaningful conversation. Even here in Wales, everyone speaks English, so there's little interest to engage in learning Welsh. The Welsh government have tried to give the language a further push, for example in healthcare we are required to introduce ourselves bilingually when answering the telephone (when I asked what to do when the person on the other end wants to continue the conversation in Welsh, the answer was: 'call language line'), however things such as this feel meaningless when there's no desire to learn the language in the first place.

It’s a British thing. We’re lazy, and that isn’t going to change without a huge reform of how we teach/learn languages from childhood.
 
JAperson said:
I don't live in Stratford or Warwickshire however I do live in a medium sized town in the Midlands, I'd say we have a loose Midlander accent, we basically are a mix of everything, nothing in particular with it changing from town to town. Stratford are definitely a bit posher than some places in the area however I wouldn't say it was like Surrey posh
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It’s defo not Surrey posh.

I think your probably right …. It really does change from town to town
 
It does baffle me how many varying regional accents, and what could almost be considered sub-languages, Britain has for such a small country.

If you drive for 100 miles in most countries, the accent and language seemingly remain quite similar. If you drive for 100 miles in Britain, you encounter multiple different accents and many different words for things you never knew existed!

I can imagine that being quite tough for a foreign visitor to decipher if they’ve learned the queen’s English. I can certainly imagine that the regional accent down here in the Forest of Dean (the Forester, as we like to call it), certainly wouldn’t be easy for a foreign visitor to decipher! You also encounter the Welsh accent a mere stone’s throw away (I live less than 10 miles from the Welsh border), which is totally different again… when I attended secondary school less than a mile from the Welsh border, I knew a number of people with fairly strong Welsh accents, and they spoke surprisingly differently to the English people! The amount of Welsh people who called me “Matth” was surprisingly high, yet I’ve never heard anyone English call me anything other than Matt (or Matthew, if they’re feeling formal).

At times, even we Brits can find each other’s regional accents hard to understand. My grandad is from Birmingham, which is less than 2 hours from where we live, yet my family find him hard to understand half the time! And compared to his brothers and sisters, his Birmingham accent isn’t even that strong any more!

Interestingly, I don’t really have a strong regional accent; I have a surprisingly generic English accent, as does my older sister. My mum calls us “accentless”! Although the fact that our dad and his entire family are from Kent, and only moved to Gloucestershire when he was 15, might help there; I guess the South East genes probably balanced us out! Nonetheless, my accent has definitely grown less posh with age; my accent was incredibly posh when I was a child, but I’m starting to develop a slightly more informal Forest-y twang as I get older… my lifelong Forest of Dean upbringing must be rubbing off on me! Although for the most part, my accent is generally still a pretty generic English accent, just as it was when I was a child…
 
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