CBeebies Land

[haydn!]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Thirteen: Fan community criticised it, general public liked it.
Mutiny Bay: Fan community criticised it, general public liked it.
Ice Age: Fan community criticised it, general public liked it.
Nemesis Sub Terra: Everyone criticised it, towers fixed it, people like it.
Smiler: Fan community criticised it, general public love it (when it's open).

Spotting the trend? Fan community opinion = nothing.

Alton Towers will deliver what their market research tells them to deliver, not what 0.01% of their annual visitors think they should. The European parks you're comparing it to have astronomical budgets in comparison, they can't spend money that isn't there. And before anyone says it, it's not about Merlin being tight, it's about Merlin being a business, not the showroom of a ride manufacturer.

 

[Martin]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Thirteen: Fan community criticised it, general public liked it.
Mutiny Bay: Fan community criticised it, general public liked it.
Ice Age: Fan community criticised it, general public liked it.
Nemesis Sub Terra: Everyone criticised it, towers fixed it, people like it.
Smiler: Fan community criticised it, general public love it (when it's open).

Thirteen got praise from a fair number of fans, and a lot of non-fans slated it.
Ice Age actually got a petty good reception on here.
I've not seen any real complaints about Smiler other than roughness and reliability. Certainly, it's by far the most popular addition in fan circles since I've been here.

 

[Croftybaby]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

i don't recall Mutiny Bay getting a lot of criticism from Fans. It one of the best re-themes for a long time.

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to the new Bogs, Grass and benches in 2014. Them kids will love it!

 

[Dave]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Quoted from the EP 2012 thread:

First pictures of the press conference from today are available. The new enchanted forest part seems great!  Thanks to Orici from epfans.ch.

News:
- Mobile App Update for iOS and Android with current wating times and mobile ticketing.
- Information at Main Entrance and Information at Euro Tower renovated and expanded
- Hotel El Andaluz 83 renovated rooms new with air conditioning
- EP Express will get dynamic information signs ("5 Minutes until next train... etc."
- Repainting and renovation of many areas and toilets around the park
- Fjord Rafting "lift hill" is now indoor with more "World of the Trolls" scenes
- Expansion of the Camp Resort in the next years
- Silver Star new exhibition and new staff uniforms
- Magic Cinema 4D renovated with new interior design

Enhanced forest news:
- Six new fairy tales
- New toilet building
- Additions in the already existing enhanced forest part (mill wheel...)

Much more pictures and facts (German) at epfans.ch:
http://www.epfans.ch/board1-europa-park/board2-aktuelles-und-medienberichte/1593-pressekonferenz-zum-saisonstart-2013/

In addition Europa-Park posted a "New for 2013" movie on Youtube




All in all much great stuff for a quiet year. 


________________________________

A hell of a lot more than just theming added to a path

You expressly compared a new attraction with a new attraction in your original comparison, not a list of park wide maintenance and improvements. There is no new attraction in that list and a slightly extended themed path if you want to push the definition of "attraction".

If you want to expand year on year like for like at the two parks then fine, Alton Towers 2013

- £18 million pound world record roller coaster
- Oblivion repaint and station re-clad
- 10 rooms refurbished in ATH
- New entertainments vehicle and additional street theatre


Towers will never beat Europa Park which is quite frankly one of the best theme parks in the world with double the number of yearly visitors. This project at Alton Towers is not as grand as many will hope including myself and it's questionable whether it will even hold-up to Thomas Land. But its not really adding anything to discussion to compare like-for-like one parks small investment year with another parks large investment year.

There is this constant need to "big-up" EP even when the comparison in tenuous at best sometimes. The better comparison is about 40min down the road and i worry towers may have underestimated it.

 

[Martin]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

I don't even think the plans are that bad. They're not great, but the new open space sounds nice, and a light retheming is pretty fine for what it is. A new ride or two would be nice but the park isn't much interested in the market this area is aimed at so I wasn't ever expecting much more than this.

The only truly disappointing thing is all we're getting next year is a new green space, stage and a bit of new theming, when six months ago we were meant to be getting that beautiful new accommodation.

 

[EuroSatch]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Quoted from the EP 2012 thread:

First pictures of the press conference from today are available. The new enchanted forest part seems great!  Thanks to Orici from epfans.ch.

News:
- Mobile App Update for iOS and Android with current wating times and mobile ticketing.
- Information at Main Entrance and Information at Euro Tower renovated and expanded
- Hotel El Andaluz 83 renovated rooms new with air conditioning
- EP Express will get dynamic information signs ("5 Minutes until next train... etc."
- Repainting and renovation of many areas and toilets around the park
- Fjord Rafting "lift hill" is now indoor with more "World of the Trolls" scenes
- Expansion of the Camp Resort in the next years
- Silver Star new exhibition and new staff uniforms
- Magic Cinema 4D renovated with new interior design

Enhanced forest news:
- Six new fairy tales
- New toilet building
- Additions in the already existing enhanced forest part (mill wheel...)

Much more pictures and facts (German) at epfans.ch:
http://www.epfans.ch/board1-europa-park/board2-aktuelles-und-medienberichte/1593-pressekonferenz-zum-saisonstart-2013/

In addition Europa-Park posted a "New for 2013" movie on Youtube




All in all much great stuff for a quiet year. 


________________________________

A hell of a lot more than just theming added to a path

You expressly compared a new attraction with a new attraction in your original comparison, not a list of park wide maintenance and improvements. There is no new attraction in that list and a slightly extended themed path if you want to push the definition of "attraction".

If you want to expand year on year like for like at the two parks then fine, Alton Towers 2013

- £18 million pound world record roller coaster
- Oblivion repaint and station re-clad
- 10 rooms refurbished in ATH
- New entertainments vehicle and additional street theatre


Towers will never beat Europa Park which is quite frankly one of the best theme parks in the world with double the number of yearly visitors. This project at Alton Towers is not as grand as many will hope including myself and it's questionable whether it will even hold-up to Thomas Land. But its not really adding anything to discussion to compare like-for-like one parks small investment year with another parks large investment year.

There is this constant need to "big-up" EP even when the comparison in tenuous at best sometimes. The better comparison is about 40min down the road and i worry towers may have underestimated it.

No, hold on a minute Dave, [yi]you[/i] brought up this years investment in that there is no new attraction as such, so that's poor of you to turn it back round to me and say that this goes outside the scope of my original comparison. I never made any link to this years lack of attractions, but compared a year of family investment at Alton Towers to a year of family investment at Europa Park. But whilst we are on the subject, for a quiet year at Europa it is hardly a lack of investment.

I compared this to the 2014 investment as Merlin are keen to say they are 2nd only to Disney, But EP are in my eyes far more closer to that then Merlin parks. And I am fully aware of the nuances behind what they say and what they actually mean - in that they have the largest portfolio of attractions and asset value, 2nd only to Disney, but that's not the suggestion they give. As brave a statement as that should really be looking to do this level of investment, and not what we appear to be seeing.

 

[ImUrNemeis]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

I think before we all jump to the conculsion that there is no new ride with the new themed area. Back at the start of 2013, wasn't it announced that there will be 2 new family attractions for 2014?

This could just be the ground work for the new area and they might relese the plans for the new rides futher down the line. I don't think family attractions will require too much planning.

Or I could be wrong and this is all we are getting for next year.

 

[Croftybaby]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Feel free to shoot me down, and sorry if it's already been suggested (can't be arsed going through the old topic)

Looking at the plans, I'm thinking...

Postman Pat

Just from the look of the new barn building and the raised hills on the tractor ride and the design of the toilet block.
Berry Bish Bash would make an awesome 'Sorting office' and I'm sure there's a farmer on Postman Pat. Just can't work out how the boat ride will fit just yet.

Yes or no?

 

[Dave]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

I compared two similar budgeted years attractions, or more accurately 2 parks sprucing up old areas. Not a major indoor coaster installation with an area re theme, which is an extreme comparison. It's impossible to compare what maintenance will happen next year at Towers to make a direct like-for-like!

Baffles me why we even need to bring up EP when I can think of three parks who have done good family IP installations in the last few years.

 

[EuroSatch]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Baffles me why we even need to bring up EP when I can think of three parks who have done good family IP installations in the last few years.

That's very true, and the current plans don't even appear to be challenging them very much

 

[Dave]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Baffles me why we even need to bring up EP when I can think of three parks who have done good family IP installations in the last few years.

That's very true, and the current plans don't even appear to be challenging them very much

Currently i would agree, though i don't think the plans are the whole picture and it wouldn't surprise me if it is more than one year of work.

I suppose one thing we do have to consider is last time they built a Secret Weapon the following year they did nothing. Though i still think it needs some small rides and then a coaster in 2015.

 

[Johno]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

I don't even think the plans are that bad. They're not great, but the new open space sounds nice, and a light retheming is pretty fine for what it is. A new ride or two would be nice but the park isn't much interested in the market this area is aimed at so I wasn't ever expecting much more than this.

The only truly disappointing thing is all we're getting next year is a new green space, stage and a bit of new theming, when six months ago we were meant to be getting that beautiful new accommodation.

Back away from the EP topic, and back to AT...

I think the park must be interested in the market area, unless there are plans for a small family ride somewhere else.

Look at a family with young children, they get in on a child's ticket, or Alton have offered free kids places with each adult price. Family of 4 with two children, even using vouchers is still £80. Now, coupled to say Gullivers charging around £15 a person, there's only £20 price difference.

At that difference, Alton have to show a premium product. They can't go all out on massive numbers of rides as there isn't room, BUT if there is a good IP, a good theme and coupled with Cloud Cuckoo Land and other attractions for slightly older children, it could be a winner.

I just think they need to bolster the smaller attraction number (along with others tbh), the number of people on the forum who've complained about queue lengths and lack of flats in Alton has always been large and I think we're maybe seeing here a bit of a mistake.

 

[James]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

I'm just having a look through the planning application, a few things which caught my attention:

An Arboriculture Report has been undertaken by Tree Heritage. The report is informed by a tree survey that covered the Old MacDonald's Farm area down to the Spinball Whizzer ride and a total of 146 tress were identified.

Given that the report covered these areas could we be seeing Adventure Land joining Storybook Land and Old MacDonald's Farmyard with the 2014 project?

---

The route of the entertainment van (I haven't seen this posted anywhere):

The noise report also confirms reports by TowersStreet members earlier this year of sound tests inside the ice tent. A nice little picture I found in the noise report below, speakers were positioned where the new stage will be built!

It also shows that the Park Keepers van was used for the entertainment van sound tests in the farm area.

 

[Thomas]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Just looking at the plans that James has posted and one building is called 'Foam Factory'? Any ideas what that refers to?

 

[evilcod]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Just looking at the plans that James has posted and one building is called 'Foam Factory'? Any ideas what that refers to?

Havent looked at its location on the plans but a quick google seems to suggest "Foam Factory" is a common (American) term for the ball play areas like Berry Bish Bash.

 

[Johno]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

I'm with the Postman Pat thoughts.

The Entertainment Van clearly fits with the idea of Postman pat's van roaming the area.

The characters are very easy to costume due to their enormous heads.
Bish Bash could easily become a sorting office.
Tractor Ride easily fits in with the farm in the series.

There are even helicopters, planes etc. in Postman Pat now so could easily be added.

 

[MiserableMonkey]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

I can't see it being Postman Pat, as Longleat already has Postman Pat Village.

 

[Laura]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

Earlier in the thread frog-hoppers and carousels were mentioned... But Alton already has these in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

I saw an interesting (yet somehow slightly odd) post on tumblr the other day, which may be worth sharing: http://naturallychloe.tumblr.com/post/60433404588/alton-towers-another-beautifully-sunny-day

Two things stood out for me here: running around and exploring.
The rides Mum mentions are gentle exploratory rides like Squirrel Nutty and Riverbank Eye-Spy (even Duel is an exploratory 'adventure'), looking around the grounds, and seeing different animals.

I think the idea of play equipment (hopefully something a bit different) and some TLC to the existing rides is excellent (look at the state of the foam on the tractor in that photo).

The woodland trail sounds fantastic as you've got the chance to explore and learn with your child.

Rides are all well and good, but copy-pasting lots of Zamperla flats seems lazy when you could be actively engaging a child's imagination and sense of adventure.

I know this is viewing the developments through rose-tinted glasses (much like that tumblr), but it's just a few thoughts I had. I know not all parents and children are as angelic as that.

What are the 'activity areas' likely to be? Something guided and hands-on?

 

[Dave]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

The play areas are going to be the key to this i think, if its Dung Heap v2 then it will be a bit of a flop. If there is lots of visually stunning things to see and engaging play equipment then alongside the existing rides with good theming they will very much engage the target audience.

 

[Rob]

Re: 2014: Old MacDonald's Farmyard Developments

However good the play areas turn out to be, I still expect far more from a theme park such as Alton Towers. It would be fine if they were in addition to new well themed kids rides, but for now it appears that they are not. It would also be ok if the park was already full of many different kids rides that could be re-themed, however again this isn't the case.