Chessington World of Adventures Resort

[Enter Valhalla]

When I visited Efteling in March, I was quite surprised that, despite it being a sunny day and all the other coasters being open, Joris opened late due to “ice on the track”
I thought this was odd for a park that opens throughout the winter.

 

[Bowser]

When I visited Efteling in March, I was quite surprised that, despite it being a sunny day and all the other coasters being open, Joris opened late due to “ice on the track”
I thought this was odd for a park that opens throughout the winter.

It was -3C again at Efteling today, it was the last ride to open but got there around 2pm. Seems wooden coasters are harder to get going but still very impressive they can do so imo.

 

[DistortAMG]

I dont think it is impressive. It is the normal, expected. Standard operation.

The UK has just erroroded our expectations down so much however.

 

[Bowser]

I dont think it is impressive. It is the normal, expected. Standard operation.

The UK has just erroroded our expectations down so much however.

Is it? I’m sure your second statement is at least partly true but I still find it impressive they can get them going so early in what would be considered hazardous conditions.

Coasters not operating below 6C is pathetic but I’m happy to give them kudos when you’re hitting freezing let alone below!

Tbf to Chessington I’ve yet to see Mandrill not open so the temperature threshold remains unconfirmed (and they’ve been fortunate with the weather this year at least). Being a B&M there’s seemingly no reason it can’t match Efteling unless they’ve chosen not to.

Minecraft will be a good investment in this regard, their first 365 coaster. I wonder if this will influence what replaces Tiger Rock…

 

[DistortAMG]

Is it? I’m sure your second statement is at least partly true but I still find it impressive they can get them going so early in what would be considered hazardous conditions.

Coasters not operating below 6C is pathetic but I’m happy to give them kudos when you’re hitting freezing let alone below!

Tbf to Chessington I’ve yet to see Mandrill not open so the temperature threshold remains unconfirmed (and they’ve been fortunate with the weather this year at least). Being a B&M there’s seemingly no reason it can’t match Efteling unless they’ve chosen not to.

Minecraft will be a good investment in this regard, their first 365 coaster. I wonder if this will influence what replaces Tiger Rock…

We run trains, planes, cars and everything in between in what could be considered far worse hazardous conditions, granted, the reasons are more out of nessesity than for leisure, but the fact remains we (as humans) regularly run, much more hazardous machines in far more hazardous conditions. These are also machines that carry lots of people, but we manage it just fine.

When you look at it from that perspective, it is not that impressive really. It is something we are very well seasoned and experienced at doing. UK parks for whatever reason, seem to really struggle with.

 

[Benzin]

Minecraft will be a good investment in this regard, their first 365 coaster. I wonder if this will influence what replaces Tiger Rock…

It'll still be weather dependent since it pops outside for a bit.

During the half term openings it was clear why the parks/rides struggled with the lower temperatures. 2ºC was the limit if I recall for the B&Ms and they felt like barely making it round.

 

[Poisson]

I've done Air as it was when it was negative temps. The ride kept e-stopping as the train took too long to complete the circuit so the ride assumed it was stalled on circuit. Also with FHT openings at Towers, it was rarely busy enough to make it worth it.

Chessie and Lego are the only Merlin parks I can see it being worth opening properly at Christmas.

 

[Dave]

I dont think it is impressive. It is the normal, expected. Standard operation.

The UK has just erroroded our expectations down so much however.

It’s never been the normal standard operation in the UK, until recently theme parks closed end of October and opened in March.

To go closer to year round opening there would have to be huge investment in the parks. All coasters would need at least one extra train purchasing and somewhere to store it so you can have rolling strip down through the year. You also need the ability to change the wheels and oils on the coasters to be able to run in cold temperatures (it’s these that limit cold weather operations as different oils have different working temps and colder weather normally needs faster running wheels).

So no expectations have been eroded, in fact it’s the other way around, enthusiast and guest expectation on the operating calendar has increased and the parks would need some hefty investment to meet it.

 

[flyingguitar]

I would agree that more rides should be opening in the cold, however I don't really think this is a merlin operating issue more of a manufacture issue, as the design of the rides

Take alton towers for example as that is the one I know best:

spinball has too short brake sections, meaning if ice were to build up it could be a serious risk,
thirteen has an uncovered tire drive lift hill along with quite a sensitivity to speed,
the smiler has stalling problems in high winds or low temperatures (could be helped by using harder wheel compound, but not sure how far that would go),
Rita probably could be best suited due to its use of magnetic braking, but has a mechanically complex launch and the cold could mess with it,
RMT may have ussues with ciing on its track, leading to the tire slipping,
and then there are the B&M's which probably could operate ( potentially better since nemesis has wheel warmers now) and as has been mentioned air has run (although perhaps some coding change to extend the timer for the stall warning at lower temperatures)

A lot of these issues are due to the design of the ride (probably mainly as they were never designed to run in winter conditions, as they expected a not 365 operations) and have similarities at other parks (such as the braking issue with dragon fury) and merlin not wanting to run the rides outside of operating parameters since the smiler incident.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

Coasters not operating below 6C is pathetic but I’m happy to give them kudos when you’re hitting freezing let alone below!

It’s not pathetic at all. The manufacturers tell the parks that they can’t run the coasters in temperatures of 5c and below.

There are a small number of parks in mainland Europe who operate coasters in lower temperatures, but this is because they have specified to the manufacturers that they want their coasters to be able to run in lower temperatures, and presumably have paid a lot of extra money to allow for this.

Less than 5c is the standard temperature that coasters have to close in, and is far from pathetic. This is the case everywhere in the world. Phantasialand and Energylandia are the exception. Even parks like Polpsaland that open all winter also have the 5c restriction on the majority of their rides.

 

[rob666]

Am I the only one on here to see the wood from the trees.

As a nation, we tend not to do that many activities outdoors in the winter months, because our climate is both wetter and windier than our continental friends.

A couple of hours at a random "winter wonderland" maybe.

Whole days in theme parks in the UK winter are for dedicated thoosies and pass holders scraping out value only.

Not worth the pennies to put a major effort in when the market is small.

 

[RicketyCricket]

It also comes down to comfort. I've done Zadra and Hyperion in freezing temperatures with sleet and it was an endurance test.

Hyperia in todays bitterly cold conditions for example would not be fun.

 

[Leigh]

Taron in the snow was incredible, but yeah as discussed at length Phantasialand go above and beyond to get their coasters winter-ready. I can’t see Merlin ever going to the effort they go to with their winter operations.

That being said. Southern England rarely ever gets THAT cold, and out of all the non Legoland Merlin parks in the UK Chessington is the best placed for year round opening. If Merlin were going to make it work anywhere it would be there.

 

[Bowser]

Mandril and Fury currently operating at 3C, the plot thickens

 

[Enter Valhalla]

The 5 degree rule isn’t as set in stone as you might think it is. They don’t have to immediately close their coasters as soon as it hits 5 degrees. There can be other factors at play.

For example if it has been 5 degrees or above earlier in the day, they will often continue to run the coaster if it falls below 5 later in the day, on the logic that the track and wheels are warm enough, due to the previous hours of operation, for it to make it around the track at an acceptable speed. If however at the start of the day, the temp is below 5, they won’t risk running it until the temperature increases as it will be too slow.

I feel like some people looking for a definite 100% answer as to whether or not rides can run, but it just isn’t that simple. The parks will do their best to get the rides open where they can (they don’t want the downtime after all), but if people are really that worried about visiting and the coasters being closed, I would say just avoid visiting in the winter. I don’t visit UK parks in the winter for that very reason.

 

[Bowser]

The 5 degree rule isn’t as set in stone as you might think it is. They don’t have to immediately close their coasters as soon as it hits 5 degrees. There can be other factors at play.

For example if it has been 5 degrees or above earlier in the day, they will often continue to run the coaster if it falls below 5 later in the day, on the logic that the track and wheels are warm enough, due to the previous hours of operation, for it to make it around the track at an acceptable speed. If however at the start of the day, the temp is below 5, they won’t risk running it until the temperature increases as it will be too slow.

I feel like some people looking for a definite 100% answer as to whether or not rides can run, but it just isn’t that simple. The parks will do their best to get the rides open where they can (they don’t want the downtime after all), but if people are really that worried about visiting and the coasters being closed, I would say just avoid visiting in the winter. I don’t visit UK parks in the winter for that very reason.

This was in the morning when they were operating at 3C, it was colder overnight. So evidently the 5C citation is incorrect. But equally it was sunny so perhaps that reduced ice.

I'm sure there are other variables but it also seems odd there isn't an answer, considering there is in regards to wind tolerances. How are the park determining whether the coasters can operate when they arrive? Presumably there are observable factors as opposed to sending a train round and hoping it makes it!

 

[Enter Valhalla]

This was in the morning when they were operating at 3C, it was colder overnight. So evidently the 5C citation is incorrect. But equally it was sunny so perhaps that reduced ice.

I'm sure there are other variables but it also seems odd there isn't an answer, considering there is in regards to wind tolerances. How are the park determining whether the coasters can operate when they arrive? Presumably there are observable factors as opposed to sending a train round and hoping it makes it!

I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s incorrect. My point was that other factors are at play, and that we shouldn’t take the 5 degrees as gospel. I gave one example, but there are plenty of others.

For example, Plopsland Belgium advertise that their coasters can’t run in less than 5 degrees, but when we went in the winter, at park opening Heidi was open but the other coasters all opened later due to it not being warm enough for them to operate.

At Efteling, as mentioned previously, all coasters were operating except Joris when I visited, and it was above 5 degrees. The staff said it was due to ice on the track, presumably because that side of the park is more in the shade and therefore colder.

There are probably plenty of other variables that we don’t know about. But I fee that if you’re looking for a definite yes-no answer as to whether a coaster will operate at X temperature, that just isn’t going to happen.

The wind speeds is a different matter. Each ride’s operating box has a wind speed alarm, which automatically triggers when the wind goes over a certain speed, so this is far more black and white. Personally I think it shouldn’t be, and they should be taking into account wind direction like Blackpool do with the Big One. But that’s a whole different conversation.

 

[Bowser]

I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s incorrect. My point was that other factors are at play, and that we shouldn’t take the 5 degrees as gospel. I gave one example, but there are plenty of others.

For example, Plopsland Belgium advertise that their coasters can’t run in less than 5 degrees, but when we went in the winter, at park opening Heidi was open but the other coasters all opened later due to it not being warm enough for them to operate.

At Efteling, as mentioned previously, all coasters were operating except Joris when I visited, and it was above 5 degrees. The staff said it was due to ice on the track, presumably because that side of the park is more in the shade and therefore colder.

There are probably plenty of other variables that we don’t know about. But I fee that if you’re looking for a definite yes-no answer as to whether a coaster will operate at X temperature, that just isn’t going to happen.

The wind speeds is a different matter. Each ride’s operating box has a wind speed alarm, which automatically triggers when the wind goes over a certain speed, so this is far more black and white. Personally I think it shouldn’t be, and they should be taking into account wind direction like Blackpool do with the Big One. But that’s a whole different conversation.

I do understand what you're saying.

I just think it's a bit disappointing that there's no real guidance for visitors in this regard.

If you go to the likes of Phantasialand and Efteling, you know that the rides will likely operate no matter what unless extreme circumstances (and even then they probably will at Phantasialand).

To have parks open and advertising rides at relatively moderate temperatures with such uncertainty seems a bit unfair. There was an article i posted last week in the Plopsaland thread regaling how no outdoor rides had opened despite charging full entry and naturally attendees were upset.

At the very least if the parks are going to open in the winter they need to make every effort to have all rides operating. I'm not saying Chessington aren't doing this, indeed i gave an example which indicates perhaps they are but some clarity would be nice if possible.

I might be in the enthusiast overthinking trap and it could be as simple as "1C+and sunshine, good to go".

 

[Enter Valhalla]

If you go to the likes of Phantasialand and Efteling, you know that the rides will likely operate no matter what unless extreme circumstances (and even then they probably will at Phantasialand).

To have parks open and advertising rides at relatively moderate temperatures with such uncertainty seems a bit unfair.

I don’t actually agree with you on this. I went to Efteling expecting Joris to be open as it was above 5 degrees and sunny, and all the other coasters were open, yet Joris was closed due to ice on the track, presumably as it’s more shaded.

Similarly at Europa this past few days we’ve seen the water rides close presumably due to cold conditions.

The parks can advertise rides as open, but at any time of year, rides are always subject to availability and weather delays. Thorpe Park advertise their coasters as open all season but they frequently have to close due to the wind.

 

[Funcone]

Guidance from manufacturers has ‘improved’ over time. A lot of modern rides will have a minimum operating temperature, although that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re always followed.

There can be a few issues with rides (let’s stick with roller coasters) running in colder temperatures. As people have already mentioned, they can stall. In some cases they might valley, which is where they don’t make it through an element, and end up stalling in a place where it’s relatively hard to retrieve the vehicle.

Vampire does appear to be particularly prone to stalling. I think part of the issue with Vampire is there are a couple of points in the ride when a wheel underneath the train is guided into a track to prevent the trains swinging on the lifthills or in the station. The train’s deliberately slowed down to a low speed and can be prone to stalling at these points. It also uses friction brakes rather than magnetic brakes which can be a little more previse, and it relies entirely on gravity between the lifthills, rather than using motorised booster wheels like on a lot of modern coasters.

If passengers get stuck on a ride (e.g. because it’s broken down) the risks are likely to be greater if it’s very cold. If it’s icy it might also be more hazardous doing the evacuation. It might also be hazardous for the engineers inspecting the ride if the walkways are slippery.

Snow definitely can be hazardous. For example, if there’s a lot of snow in a tree it might lean more than it normally does (entering a ride’s safety envelope). There might also be a greater risk of a tree falling over if there’s snow. Other structures might also be affected, for example if there’s snow on the roof of a tunnel.

The other issue with cold temperatures is they might affect the design life of parts. Grease and oil tends to get thicker when it’s colder. This might mean there’s more friction between parts. For example the oil in the gear box or the grease on the lift chain are thicker.

For example, the manufacturer of a roller coaster might say that the lift chain has a design life of 10 years, meaning it should last a minimum of 10 years (although engineers would still be expected to regular inspect it in case there’s ‘premature failure’). However, this might be based on calculations assuming a minimum operating temperature. If the ride is running in a colder temperature the chain won’t immediately fail, but because the grease is likely to be thicker there may be more friction, meaning it might have a shorter lifespan than the manufacturer predicted. This could mean it costs more to maintain the ride, and it could mean that you’re relying more on inspections to spot signs of premature failure.

Often it’s not clear exactly what guidance a park has from a manufacturer, although some rides (particularly newer rides) do have technical plates, sometimes in areas that are visible to the public, which do have the manufacturer’s technical data on things like wind speeds and temperature.