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Congratulations To The USA...
- Thread starter Spike
- Start date
CGM
TS Member
Hey, it's not all so bad. We're not at the back of the queue for trade deals with the US any more, as the lovely Obama wanted us to be. That should help our wonderful Brexit
This actually worries me. It could be used in part to justify a hard Brexit.
In a worst case scenario, we could find ourselves completely reliant on American trade with our prosperity dependant on the whim of Trump whilst we sit on the edge of Europe, isolated from the huge economy on our doorstep.
Also, it appears that Trump's a big fan of Putin. If we have to cosy up to an America led by Trump, where does that leave us in the frosty relationship between Europe and Russia?
John
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Russia is my biggest worry in all this - Trump is on record as saying that he wouldn't automatically support NATO countries, meanwhile Putin is actively looking to re-build the Soviet Union and Europe isn't anywhere near as strong as a couple of years ago and could weaken further if the current wave of nationalism continues. I would not be at all surprised to see Russia try to intervene in the Baltic in the near future, and then who knows how that would end - I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a major European war in the not too distant future.
An interesting essay on such a prediction: link
An interesting essay on such a prediction: link
But he does have a point, why should the US protect counties that don't pay their fair share?
http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/08/news/nato-summit-spending-countries/
If you join a club you have to play by the rules to receive the benefits, I note most that don't are our supposed EU partners, nothing new there that's why we voted to leave that club.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/08/news/nato-summit-spending-countries/
If you join a club you have to play by the rules to receive the benefits, I note most that don't are our supposed EU partners, nothing new there that's why we voted to leave that club.
Matt.GC
TS Member
He does have a point, but the problem seems to be that the US are spending too much. If the US, a heavily indebted nation who consistently fall way behind most of the developed world when it comes to making provisions for its poor, choose to waste billions on defence then Trump certainly should be questioning this. The US should not be carrying other countries who don't pay their fair share, it should cut its contribution and force states such as Germany and France to pay more if they are serious about the future of NATO.
I've also never understood why the US feel the need to spend so much on defence anyway in the modern era. Wars are fought differently these days. But then would Trump spend the money on health provision for the poor people he misled into voting for him instead? Would he spend it on programs to support the return of industry in detroit? Social programs perhaps? Maybe servicing national debt? No, he'd spend it on massive tax cuts for him and his rich buddies of course.
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I've also never understood why the US feel the need to spend so much on defence anyway in the modern era. Wars are fought differently these days. But then would Trump spend the money on health provision for the poor people he misled into voting for him instead? Would he spend it on programs to support the return of industry in detroit? Social programs perhaps? Maybe servicing national debt? No, he'd spend it on massive tax cuts for him and his rich buddies of course.
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Tom
TS Member
I assume that was a joke?
Matt.GC
TS Member
In what way is that incredible? Same la la land populist "take that establishment" nonsense movement behind all of them.
Martin
TS Member
Shouts like "all opposition is nothing but la la land anti establishment nonsense and all the same" ignoring the contexts, ideologies, aims and strategies of said movements is exactly why liberalism will learn nothing from this and continue as it has done, sheltered by its own smugness and blaming everything but itself.
People did not vote Trump because they were sneered at, as I pointed out yesterday, the poor and 'uneducated' rejected Trump. It's always assumed it's the working class who are responsible, it's the inbuilt classism of smug liberalism that assumes any rejection of it is from angry and/or stupid people. Trump was voted in by middle class white people upset the world doesn't quite revolve around them as much any more.
Liberalism is why we now have an open fascist heading to the White House. It refused to sneer and shout down fascism and so alongside fascism it should be sneered and shouted down itself. As the reactions to Sanders and Corbyn shown, liberalism has no problem doing it to even mild social democracy, but when actual fascism re-emerges, liberalism wants to give it a platform, to listen to its 'genuine concerns', to move rightwards and try to meet it in the middle. And Trump, brexit, Farage, Le Penn etc are the result.
People did not vote Trump because they were sneered at, as I pointed out yesterday, the poor and 'uneducated' rejected Trump. It's always assumed it's the working class who are responsible, it's the inbuilt classism of smug liberalism that assumes any rejection of it is from angry and/or stupid people. Trump was voted in by middle class white people upset the world doesn't quite revolve around them as much any more.
Liberalism is why we now have an open fascist heading to the White House. It refused to sneer and shout down fascism and so alongside fascism it should be sneered and shouted down itself. As the reactions to Sanders and Corbyn shown, liberalism has no problem doing it to even mild social democracy, but when actual fascism re-emerges, liberalism wants to give it a platform, to listen to its 'genuine concerns', to move rightwards and try to meet it in the middle. And Trump, brexit, Farage, Le Penn etc are the result.
Matt.GC
TS Member
Ridiculous opposition is la la land nonsense. What new ideas has any of the aforementioned brought to the table? It's the same old "Immigrants and the establishment are the problem, tax breaks for the rich and the shrinking of the state are the solution" nonsense from the wealthy elite on the right. Same old "anyone earning more than you and the establishment are the problem, nationalisation and state control is the solution" from the educated elite on the left. No new ideas. No new ideology. Just the same old failed ideas of the past, re packaged for the 21st century.
Then we have the centre ground, often called "liberal" on both sides (from left and right opponents), politicians of which usually mean well, but consistently talk down to their electorate and won't stop trying to simply jump start the system that failed in 2008 (the political elite). Progressives that have stopped being progressive.
People are searching for something new, but what they get is new and more extreme faces of the same old policies of by gone eras, telling people what they think they want to hear. So out comes outrageous Trump for the white wealthy Americans, rebranding the same old far right propaganda to keep the poor in their place, pretending that an ex detroit steel worker will feel the benefit of the taxes he and his rich mates will no longer to continue to pay. Out comes softly spoken Corbyn, with the muscle of John Mcdonnalls antisemitic trotski bully mob behind him, blinded by their lust for a socialist uprising, pretending that the solution to getting people housed is by renationalising railways.
What is happening across the western world is no coincidence. It's part of the same movement. Politics is being hijacked by extremists promising undeliverable things due to moderates staying fully subscribed to the pre 2008 world order. Most of the leading figures of this great extremist lie all have something in common- they all belong to similar elites as the moderate elites they claim to differentiate from.
Then we have the centre ground, often called "liberal" on both sides (from left and right opponents), politicians of which usually mean well, but consistently talk down to their electorate and won't stop trying to simply jump start the system that failed in 2008 (the political elite). Progressives that have stopped being progressive.
People are searching for something new, but what they get is new and more extreme faces of the same old policies of by gone eras, telling people what they think they want to hear. So out comes outrageous Trump for the white wealthy Americans, rebranding the same old far right propaganda to keep the poor in their place, pretending that an ex detroit steel worker will feel the benefit of the taxes he and his rich mates will no longer to continue to pay. Out comes softly spoken Corbyn, with the muscle of John Mcdonnalls antisemitic trotski bully mob behind him, blinded by their lust for a socialist uprising, pretending that the solution to getting people housed is by renationalising railways.
What is happening across the western world is no coincidence. It's part of the same movement. Politics is being hijacked by extremists promising undeliverable things due to moderates staying fully subscribed to the pre 2008 world order. Most of the leading figures of this great extremist lie all have something in common- they all belong to similar elites as the moderate elites they claim to differentiate from.