Did Th13teen disappoint you?

[Secret Weapon]

I do wonder why Lord Wardley didn’t do more to insist thirteen has a decent surrounding area. Very unlike him and shows his diminishing influence around that time.

I'm not sure if budget was an issue, as I remember John Wardley saying that Air was supposed to have much more theming (e.g. waterfalls, and something in the concrete tunnel before the lift hill), but they ran out of money because the ride itself was so expensive.

The original park was designed area by area by someone who got it - naming JW

I'm not sure when John Wardley / Tussauds became involved with AT; I think the "Fantasy World" name (pre-"X-Sector") was already in place before he arrived, but I'm not sure if "Thunder Valley" (pre-"Forbidden Valley") was a name that he came up with, as I think the sale happened around the same time as the Thunder Looper arrived?

 

[Slugjc]

The thing that wardley had back then was a blank sheet. Ok you had the odd themed area, nothing on the scale that we later got. Nemesis came into an area that was just a part of the park where they beat two thrill rides. What made it easier for John is, the thunder looper and the beast(?) Both had short shelf lives. So he had the opportunity stamp his image. It also helps that FV has decent terrorain, so Air could be blended in without being shoe horned. Plus the added bonus of being able to dig into the earth is major advantage for him theming wise. Imagine nemesis at ground level.

As much as the dark forest doesn't offend me like some. Even I have to admit that it's basic. The whole land is built to fit in with the theme for thirteen. Thirteen is hidden away behind Rita. The natural flow that FV has is missing. Instead of the main attraction being front and centre, it's the support cast that's in the eye line. You can't see the track, you can't even see the entrance without walking underneath Rita. Everything kiosk, is next to Rita. You can't escape the forest, or Rita.

X-sector suffers in this way. Once upon a time you were drawn directly to oblivion from the entrance. Now, you have to walk past the smiler, which can be seen before the entrance. With it's hahaha's and drill noises. Before even noticing oblivion to which the land is based.

Wardley is genius that never got the budget. No amount of money could help with restrictions in place for the dark forest

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Wardley is genius that never got the budget.

He spent £6 million, of a £12 million budget, digging a hole for Oblivion. I think it's safe to say he was always given the budget.

 

[Slugjc]

He spent £6 million, of a £12 million budget, digging a hole for Oblivion. I think it's safe to say he was always given the budget.

If he was given £12million At 98% of all other parks in the world to build a ride. He wouldn't need to spend £6million on a hole.

Let's remember. The switch track on exhibition Everest, cost more than Thirteen did to build.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Tussauds / Merlin were generally very generous with their budgets (certainly compared to most smaller parks in the country), although I remember John Wardley saying in "Making Thorpe Park" that they refused to give him enough money to make Stealth any longer than it is.

I was a bit surprised at this, given that they were on something of a spending spree at TP at the time - although I suppose the risk of making Stealth 'too good' was that it could overshadow the other rides at the park anyway (and would make the queue longer as well).

Incidentally: I still can't believe that they spent £13m on Derren Brown's Ghost Train; in my opinion, this was the worst investment that Merlin ever made. The Swarm was probably also a poor investment as it cost £20m and failed to significantly boost visitor numbers, but at least it was a decent ride; I personally think that its lack of appeal may have been because the park was reaching saturation point by then and the ride was perhaps too similar to Nemesis Inferno (if The Swarm had launched in 2003 and Inferno in 2012 - i.e. the other way around - then Inferno may have been seen as a failure instead).

Apologies for going a bit off-topic towards the end...

Am I right in thinking that, the reason thirteen and Rita are built in that section. Is because they impact less on an area of high conservation. I could be very wrong, but didn't they need to do some archaeological survey on the land before building thirteen? Which wasn't required at the time of building the corkscrew.

I might be wrong, but I think that Corkscrew (and possibly other rides such as The New Beast?) was built on a steel frame (rather than traditional concrete foundations etc?) and so maybe this made it easier to get planning permission?

Plus, as you say, maybe conservation was less of a priority in the 1970s and 1980s than it would become decades later.

 

[Matt.GC]

Although it's undeniable that a lot of investment went into the park in the 90's, there was always a tight budget. And John has spoken and written about working to budget numerous times. That was the real mastery of what went on back then. Shrewd investment decisions and tonnes of imagination. They got bang for their buck.

Katanga Canyon utilised an existing ride in the form of the rapids to make something of an area, and the mine train was little more than a very lightly themed Mack powered coaster. Although Nemesis was impressive, Forbidden Valley felt unfinished for a number of years until both the Beast and Thunder Looper went. The Black Hole still existed in a tent for almost a decade, they just spray painted it dark blue. Toyland was a retheme of an existing attraction. The Land of Make Believe consisted of new attractions in existing buildings, with the buildings themselves being very much Talbot Street but with different paint on them.

It was how it was thought through and designed that hid what was actually going on in order to make the budget stretch. Wardley was a showman after all. Much of what was done seemed more than the sum of it's actual parts. When you think of it like that, there's always been a bit of naff to Towers. They just always made good use of clever design and imagination to hide the stretching of the budget. I think the problem with Thirteen and most subsequent attractions is that blending new investments in became an afterthought, with all the focus being on the investment itself. Just paint and signs.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Let's remember. The switch track on exhibition Everest, cost more than Thirteen did to build.

On the flipside, it's worth remembering that Tussauds spent almost as much (£13.5m) on their first rollercoaster at Thorpe Park (Colossus) in 2002 as they did to purchase the park itself (£15m) in 1998.