Duel Improvements 2012

[CoasterCrazyChris]

The attraction is fantastic until you actually get on the ride.

The first couple of scenes are good and so is the sinister garden (or what's left of it) but none of the other scenes are impressive these days.

 

[Nemesismad]

Oh come off it mrbrightside and others! Duel is just crap, it really is, and someone needs to say it. It's little more than a travelling ghost train with a bit more budget and space.

Compared to the vast majority of similar-sized dark rides in Europe, let alone Florida, it becomes a joke. If it was at any other park, people would call it out for the tired waste-of-space that it is and hope for a replacement ASAP.

You couldn't be anymore wrong, ok in comparison to other dark rides around the world it may not be the best, but technology does move on, allowing new and upcoming software to make more realistic up to date dark rides, which ok the attractions in "Europe & Florida" do have!. The theming for Duel ( i think ) is brilliant, baring in the mind the ride was conceived in 1992 and revamped in 2003, the technology used back then was state of the art stuff and very high tech.

Duel is a great family attraction and in no way resembles any part of a tacky traveling ghost train regardless of the budget or space, i can't believe someone would even compare Duel in that way It won't be going anywhere anytime soon so i wouldn't get your hopes up, with the latest improvements recently added for the 2012 season i think it's improved the overall ride, not by a lot but still an improvement on the past experience.

 

[Sam]

If you think Duel's a great dark ride then... let's be honest... you haven't been on many dark rides.

I'm sorry, but you just come across as a total fanboy who's never been outside the UK! I don't really like the "I've been on more rides than you" thing, but honestly, if you went across the channel, it wouldn't take you long to realise what a sad joke Duel is in comparison.

 

[James]

Within the UK industry Duel is a decent dark ride. It's of good length, most effects work all year round and it's well maintained.

Outside of the UK though it is rather low on the list of good dark rides. For the UK market though I think it's sits fine as it is now. It's certainly got a good few years ahead of it before it needs removing or revamping.

 

[Nemesismad]

If you think Duel's a great dark ride then... let's be honest... you haven't been on many dark rides.

I'm sorry, but you just come across as a total fanboy who's never been outside the UK! I don't really like the "I've been on more rides than you" thing, but honestly, if you went across the channel, it wouldn't take you long to realise what a sad joke Duel is in comparison.

Your right, unfortunatley i haven't been on any attractions outside of the UK However i'am going Florida next october and hopefully a few parks around europe in the build up so i'll be able to judge for myself. Also, the way your word it makes it sound like i'am saying Duel is the best dark ride ever ( it's not ). I just think it's a good attraction and your just been a little harsh !!! As a fan of ghost trains/interaction dark rides Duel is great. I don't like it been compared to as been just above a travel ghost train because your so far wrong it's unreal.

Ohh and as for the "fan boy" quote, Towers is the park i visit quite regular as a pass holder, as you already no i think Duel is a great little attraction and YES i'am a fan of the ride, if that makes me a "fan boy" then so be it.

My favourite dark ride in the UK is Valhalla

 

[ThemeParkJack]

Oh come off it mrbrightside and others! Duel is just crap, it really is, and someone needs to say it. It's little more than a travelling ghost train with a bit more budget and space.

Compared to the vast majority of similar-sized dark rides in Europe, let alone Florida, it becomes a joke. If it was at any other park, people would call it out for the tired waste-of-space that it is and hope for a replacement ASAP.

Too be honest Duel isn't rubbish at all. I think everyone will agree here. yeah it may not be the best dark ride but for a 1992 ride its fantastic. Little frights for all, never gets big queues, overall everybody enjoys it. Look how far technology has advanced since then. Obviously it can't keep up because its retro. Its one of the parks oldest rides.
The Haunted House was one of Sparks Creative first major ride for supplying the anomatronics.

Just picture it... Back on the day when it opened it wowed the public because they hadn't seen anything like it. Quoted by John Wardley 'The only people who could do talking figures, anomatronics was Disney' You explain to me what makes the ride 'Crap'? Take it your a Pleasure Beach fan looking at your top 15? Maybe if you understood a lot more things about rides. You'd agree with mine and NemesisMads posts. Just because you like a certain ride doesn't auto mean your a fan boy does it? Maybe have a little bit more knowledge before you start kicking off.

 

[Ian]

As a general dark ride Duel isn't that great against some of the other competition around the world. There's no denying that. However, as a ghost train/haunted house ride it's one of the best examples in the UK, and could also be argued gives some of the European equivalents a run for their money (Phantom Manor being one of the few I'd say exceed it). When you compare Duel to the likes of Geister Rickshaw and Transdimonium it really shows what a great example of the concept it is. If you want a cheap ride which is like a traveling fair ride I suggest those!

If you want to talk family haunted houses then Disney probably hold the best collection of them with the Phantom Manor/Haunted Mansion group (Surprise surprise). But personally, when it's all working and with a few new effects added Duel's main ride could easily be on par. The space is there, the ride system is there, the remnants of the Haunted House days are there. It's only through neglect and the bodged conversion to Duel that it has gotten into a sorry state if you ask me.

It really don't think it's fair to compare Duel to the likes of Harry Potter though. Sure, they're both dark rides, but so are Hex, and the countless other madhouse style rides and similar out there. The term "dark ride" is very broad and general. You wouldn't compare Villa Volta to Wild West Shoot Out at Drayton for example! While Harry Potter shows what technology can be made to do to dark rides it really does fall under a different category. Slapping countless video screens and projection systems throughout Duel isn't going to make it any better. On the contrary it would probably make it all the poorer. They are both dark rides. They are both transit systems. But that doesn't make them the same. If we're going to do that lets compare Alice Ride to Harry Potter.

The haunted house style rides should not be all about pure virtual technology (Projections, etc). They are about mystery and magical happenings. These kind of thing are all the more effective when you see them happening in front of you, as it leaves more to the imagination. If I saw for example, plates flying around the dining room in Duel, with ghosts throwing them around above my head I'd be much more impressed than if I was watching a video screen with a CGI plate flying through the virtual environment.

Haunted house rides should be a show of what can be achieved in reality, with real engineering. It doesn't hurt to throw some tech into the mix, like the Hitchhiking Ghosts Disney have worked on, but even they have their roots in old school mechanical engineering, and they are only a small segment of the larger attraction. Haunted houses should be rides which provide most of their laughs and frights from the real life goings on in front of the rider, and create the illusion that there really are spooky goings on and ghosts and ghouls reeking havoc around them. No amount of technology can be a true substitute for reality. Not for now at any rate. The magic comes from the mystery and immersion that it really is all happening before your eyes.

For the UK Duel is a solid family ride, which a lot of the average day guests enjoy riding (Even if it's just that once on their visit). The ride may not be the best in its class on the continent, and is by no means the greatest dark ride in the world, but it really isn't that bad. I can think of several much worse examples off the top of my head. It has the basis of a world class dark ride. It just needs the money and imagination going to it to bring it all together. The team who work with the ride have the ideas and visions. The management just need to give them the resources to let them achieve it.

 

[Sam]

You couldn't be anymore wrong, ok in comparison to other dark rides around the world it may not be the best, but technology does move on, allowing new and upcoming software to make more realistic up to date dark rides, which ok the attractions in "Europe & Florida" do have!. The theming for Duel ( i think ) is brilliant, baring in the mind the ride was conceived in 1992 and revamped in 2003, the technology used back then was state of the art stuff and very high tech.

There's a huge difference between the dark rides in Florida and Duel.

Some of them (Mansion, Pirates) are much, much older, and although they probably were state-of-the-art when they were built, I'm sure they were no-where near as good at opening as Duel was at opening. But the difference is that the Florida parks have invested hugely in keeping them up to date. Either of those rides could have opened yesterday, as they always keep them on the cutting edge.

We're not just talking a few lighting re-arrangements. We're talking extensive upgrades and refurbishments, year-after-year. Compared to that, the 'improvements' we're discussing on Duel are minuscule. They're so minor, they're barely worth mentioning. I'd bet that Alton spend money on improving Duel each year less than 1% of what WDW do on the Haunted Mansion.

It leaves Duel being little more than a carnival ghost train with a facelift. The theming for Duel isn't "brilliant", it's cheap throwaway rubbish. If it was at many other European parks, often smaller than Towers, it'd be a joke, a figure of fun.

 

[ThemeParkJack]

Maybe there is a high difference. But doesn't mean to compare Duel to them though? Don't get me wrong of course there will be better Dark Rides than Duel but for what its worth its a brilliant ride.
And I'm sure the majority of people on this forum would agree with me.

 

[Sam]

Too be honest Duel isn't rubbish at all. I think everyone will agree here. yeah it may not be the best dark ride but for a 1992 ride its fantastic. Little frights for all, never gets big queues, overall everybody enjoys it. Look how far technology has advanced since then. Obviously it can't keep up because its retro. Its one of the parks oldest rides.
The Haunted House was one of Sparks Creative first major ride for supplying the anomatronics.

Just picture it... Back on the day when it opened it wowed the public because they hadn't seen anything like it. Quoted by John Wardley 'The only people who could do talking figures, anomatronics was Disney' You explain to me what makes the ride 'Crap'? Take it your a Pleasure Beach fan looking at your top 15? Maybe if you understood a lot more things about rides. You'd agree with mine and NemesisMads posts. Just because you like a certain ride doesn't auto mean your a fan boy does it? Maybe have a little bit more knowledge before you start kicking off.

Yes, for a 1992 ride it is fantastic! I mean it was fantastic. In 1992. This is twenty years later, a fifth of a century later. It is not fantastic for a 2012 ride. That is because, since 1992 it has had absolutely minimal improvements (many would say it's got a lot worse).

People would rightly absolutely lay into Disney if Pirates and Mansion were still exactly the same as they were in 1992. But they're not, they change and evolve. Just like the theme park industry does. Something may have been "fantastic" twenty years ago, but with very little change, it isn't now.

Ian, I'm not saying we should compare it to Harry Potter. I'm saying we should compare it to rides like Pirates and Mansions - good quality, solid dark rides. Like Duel was when it opened. But the former have been loved, nurtured and improved. Duel has been left to rot. It's an embarrassment to the park, and should either be completely re-worked or ripped out.

 

[Ian]

Guys can we please keep the personal insults and remarks off the forums. If you have personal maters to take up with each other please take them to Private Messenger or other communication methods

 

[Nemesismad]

You couldn't be anymore wrong, ok in comparison to other dark rides around the world it may not be the best, but technology does move on, allowing new and upcoming software to make more realistic up to date dark rides, which ok the attractions in "Europe & Florida" do have!. The theming for Duel ( i think ) is brilliant, baring in the mind the ride was conceived in 1992 and revamped in 2003, the technology used back then was state of the art stuff and very high tech.

There's a huge difference between the dark rides in Florida and Duel.

Some of them (Mansion, Pirates) are much, much older, and although they probably were state-of-the-art when they were built, I'm sure they were no-where near as good at opening as Duel was at opening. But the difference is that the Florida parks have invested hugely in keeping them up to date. Either of those rides could have opened yesterday, as they always keep them on the cutting edge.

We're not just talking a few lighting re-arrangements. We're talking extensive upgrades and refurbishments, year-after-year. Compared to that, the 'improvements' we're discussing on Duel are minuscule. They're so minor, they're barely worth mentioning. I'd bet that Alton spend money on improving Duel each year less than 1% of what WDW do on the Haunted Mansion.

It leaves Duel being little more than a carnival ghost train with a facelift. The theming for Duel isn't "brilliant", it's cheap throwaway rubbish. If it was at many other European parks, often smaller than Towers, it'd be a joke, a figure of fun.

When i say "Brilliant" that's my personal opinion ! As i said in my previous posts, looks at how old Duel is, for it's age the theming is great, and back when it opened was probably outstanding as there was nothing like it in the UK at the time.

I'am just wondering also at what point did i start saying Duel was better than any of the rides in the US ? It appears my words are been twisted somewhere along the line or your reading a different post as you keep comparing Duel to other dark rides around the world, as if i'd said it puts any other dark rides to shame.

Duel for a UK dark ride/ family ride is great (my opinion). We seem to be going round in circles with these posts, lets just accept we have clearly different views on Duel and that it in fact doesn't come closes to most dark rides around the globe nor have i said it does, however for the UK it's a cracker.

 

[thefatone]

With Duel, and with any ride in towers or the UK, I only generally compare to the UK market because that is literally all they're targetting.

If they targetted the wider audiences that disney, europa, universal, PA did.. then i'd be expecting more. But they don't, so I don't.

Least it's not Wild West Shootout, or Tomb Blaster.

 

[James]

We're not just talking a few lighting re-arrangements. We're talking extensive upgrades and refurbishments, year-after-year. Compared to that, the 'improvements' we're discussing on Duel are minuscule. They're so minor, they're barely worth mentioning. I'd bet that Alton spend money on improving Duel each year less than 1% of what WDW do on the Haunted Mansion.

Comparing a WDW ride to an Alton Towers ride is a bit unfair. Especially with the small budgets Alton have to work with. You can bring out the Merlin is second to Disney argument. Although at the end of the day, Alton Towers yearly budgets are significantly smaller than WDW's and there's not a lot they can do about it.

Considering Alton Towers does not aim to attract the European market too, I still firmly believe it suits perfectly well in the UK. It's still popular these days and was an absolutely massive project in the early 90s, while things have changed over the years, it still stands out to me as one of the better dark rides operating in the UK.

 

[Ben]

I actual rate Duel above Hex. *waits to be stoned to death*

 

[siralgenon]

I think the problem that lets Duel down the most, is the amount of 'tin shed', black curtains, and half finished scenery you can see throughout the attraction. Some areas are just too light, and don't hide the effects. The 'house' is great, and creates a creepy and well themed atmosphere, as does the station, but after the banqueting hall, it just goes down hill all the way.

 

[Squiggs]

It's little more than a travelling ghost train with a bit more budget and space.

How is the devil these days, Sam?

I do agree with the general direction of your argument, but you might be over-egging it a little the fairground rhetoric. The Haunted House never had that cheap and claustrophobic feeling of a travelling ghost train, where scenes are crammed in and you always know you're rattling around corridors in a trailer. It has always been rather sumptuous with its scenes I felt, with scenes allowed to take up a lot more space and contain more detail than most dark rides would allow.

Duel on the other hand does have rather more in common with travelling ghost trains, due to the rather unfortunate addition of all those naff 'off the shelf' Zombie effects.

However beneath this rather ugly plastering off cheap make-up from 2003 parts of the original quality of the Haunted House still shine through. The Hall of Spiders still gets me every time... and the faded beauty of the dining room scene and ghoulish garden could easily be brought back to life with some spit, polish love and care. So I don't agree with the 'rip it all out and start again' sentiment, when at the heart of the attraction are some really good elements that are as effective today as they ever were.

I would love them to take away Duel (well most of it), retain the best of the remaining haunted house scenes and use what is left to reboot the ride back into a world class attraction. I would love it even more if they were to revisit the Ghost Corridor or Witches of Eastwick (or even the original Tigger scene) scenes using modern technology to see if 20 years later they could make them work successfully.

 

[LiamC]

I actual rate Duel above Hex. *waits to be stoned to death*

As a Ride, Duel is better. However, as an experience Hex is far superior...if that makes sense? It does to me anyway. So in a way I agree with you I suppose?!

Anyway, I really like Duel. It always has a lot of re-rideability for me, and it's a solid filler ride for the park with a massive throughput capacity.

However, it does need improving. It doesn't even need a lot doing to it to make it a really decent ride again, it's just small niggly bits. The amount of targets is one that always annoys me. If they removed even half of them it would switch the focus back on to what's actually happening in the house rather than just focusing on getting a massive score and would make the whole experience a lot better in my eyes.

 

[Squiggs]

I find Hex to be a more cerebral experience myself.

 

[CoasterCrazyChris]

it's a solid filler ride for the park

I'm sorry but this comment is what really, really irks me. This is one of the largest rides on park, it shouldn't be a filler ride and therefore should not be judged by those standards. This should be one of Alton Towers star attractions and there is almost no excuse why it shouldn't be.

When you think of the space available inside that building and all the many awesome things that can be done nowadays with technology......just imagine what even a couple of million pounds could do for the ride. The sort of money (and more besides) that was wasted building attractions such as Sub-Terra.