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But this is just it isn't it, with a couple of exceptions every year the ride has been overall worse than it was the year before.
To undo the damage would cost a bomb at this point, and take us to the point you have a ride that was good, perhaps great 30 years ago.
People need to look forwards rather than back on this.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
If Alton Towers only looked on the new I wouldn't bother visiting the park at all. The only good new stuff there are the secret weapons. The stuff I love about the park come from the late 80s to the late 90s era such as Forbidden Valley, Gloomy woods, and Katanga Canyon.
Many enthusiasts are here to this day because of their past. If Alton only looked forward and threw the old stuff out of the window as soon as they could, many people excluding Thrill seekers probably down at the Park and see it as a half decent place to have a day out.
Alton Towers needs a balance with new and old, not just the latest trends everywhere. You don't need the latest technology to make a great ride.
It would be devastating for Alton Towers to just casually junk Duel out with an average modern Dark Ride as its one of the last remaining pieces of Keith Sparks work, which he practically shaped the modern UK Theme park industry with John. He'd roll in his grave alright.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Interestingly, I found this Duel POV from Attraction Source that was uploaded in 2020:
I’m unsure when it was filmed, but it’s far darker than I’ve seen it in years, possibly ever, in this POV. Much of the audio also seems to be working better than I’ve seen it working in recent rides?
Is this the type of lighting that you guys think that the attraction should return to?
EDIT: According to Attraction Source themselves, this POV was shot in Spring 2020.
I’m unsure when it was filmed, but it’s far darker than I’ve seen it in years, possibly ever, in this POV. Much of the audio also seems to be working better than I’ve seen it working in recent rides?
Is this the type of lighting that you guys think that the attraction should return to?
EDIT: According to Attraction Source themselves, this POV was shot in Spring 2020.
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Matt.GC
TS Member
I've been on it since and it's not like it looks in that video in real life. Things like the screaming heads and that really crappy zombie on a stick that swings out and laughs before the spider bit all have clearly visible mechanisms. Anytime something lights up, you can usually see a part of the warehouse walls as well.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Interesting… I too thought the ride seemed much brighter than this POV lets on on my recent rides, with the entire ride being bathed in bright purple light. I could see quite a few of the plain warehouse walls, and the mechanisms were on show in places, as well. The audio also wasn’t working quite as well for me as it seemingly does in this POV; some of the screaming zombie triggers weren’t working, and I wasn’t getting the “Are you scared of spiders?”, either.
Every other recent POV I’ve seen also looks incredibly bright, however; maybe Attraction Source just got particularly lucky for this ride? Their POV almost looks more like the 90s Haunted House POV than the 2021 Duel POVs I’ve seen, and that’s nothing to do with quality, as it was filmed in 4K…
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Sorry to double post, but I’ve got some questions about the ride’s soundtrack when it was the Haunted House.
I only wanted to ask; firstly, where in the Haunted House did they play The Vestibule?:
I didn’t actually know it was from HH for years; I always heard it playing in the ATH lifts, but I never knew which ride it came from.
Secondly, was this Gloomy Wood area track (the one that played right up until 2018) the one that was originally composed for the area in 1992, or was it added in 2003 alongside the Duel revamp?:
I only wanted to ask; firstly, where in the Haunted House did they play The Vestibule?:
I didn’t actually know it was from HH for years; I always heard it playing in the ATH lifts, but I never knew which ride it came from.
Secondly, was this Gloomy Wood area track (the one that played right up until 2018) the one that was originally composed for the area in 1992, or was it added in 2003 alongside the Duel revamp?:
Trooper Looper
TS Member
1) The Vestibule was the original HH queue theme and is the only Theme from the HH still used to this day. It mostly plays in Duels indoor queue, sometimes only the first room, sometimes the tilted room as well.
2) Yes, that theme was introduced to 2003 after the revamp.
Hope I've helped you out
The Vestibule loop I believe is what was played in the interior queue/pre-show area and the exit/Something Sinister shop.
The 'Gloomy Wood' music you refer to is definitely from 2003. The opening bars match the backing to "a controversial genetic surgeon has vanished".
Nerdsticks
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Silver Star
I was under the impression that this is what played on exit of the Haunted House.
I love leitmotifs, whilst this is just a straight rip from Towers Street, the finale music is awesome, incorporating the Towers Street theme into something more sinister, really makes it a magical experience, in my opinion.
I love leitmotifs, whilst this is just a straight rip from Towers Street, the finale music is awesome, incorporating the Towers Street theme into something more sinister, really makes it a magical experience, in my opinion.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Cheers, all!
I’ll admit I actually haven’t ever heard The Vestibule being used within the attraction; on both of my recent goes, at least, the interior queue was playing the Simon Allen music that was made for 2018. Controversially, I’ll admit I’m a big fan of the track that Simon Allen did for the ride and Gloomy Wood area, and I hope it stays if they ever do a bigger refurbishment of Duel.
If the GW track in that video was introduced in 2003, then what did the area have playing in 1992, if anything?
On a different note; is it known when the Trommel stopped working? I only ask because I’ve done Duel in 2014, 2020 and 2021, and I’ve never seen the tunnel spinning; in fact, I never even knew it was supposed to spin…
I’ll admit I actually haven’t ever heard The Vestibule being used within the attraction; on both of my recent goes, at least, the interior queue was playing the Simon Allen music that was made for 2018. Controversially, I’ll admit I’m a big fan of the track that Simon Allen did for the ride and Gloomy Wood area, and I hope it stays if they ever do a bigger refurbishment of Duel.
If the GW track in that video was introduced in 2003, then what did the area have playing in 1992, if anything?
On a different note; is it known when the Trommel stopped working? I only ask because I’ve done Duel in 2014, 2020 and 2021, and I’ve never seen the tunnel spinning; in fact, I never even knew it was supposed to spin…
Trooper Looper
TS Member
It's my favourite theme from the HH. Really makes you excited and full of adrenaline when it hits. Graham Smart has done great music for this ride. I wonder if he's still alive making music or retired.
Could have been. I have strong memories of tapping along to the Vestibule music in the Something Sinister shop while waiting for my friend to get a photo printed, this would have been 2002 (so perhaps it was something they'd changed). Occasionally the memory cheats tho, I accept.
I remember when I found the Haunted House music online later on the escape music didn't match my memory of the exit music then either - I knew that bit from Towers Street but that was it.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
I’ve got a question for you all regarding the Haunted House if you wouldn’t mind answering it; has it always been as dark and “jumpscare-y” as it is now? Was it more whimsical and fun when it opened?
I only ask because I’m always confused when I hear people like John Wardley describe it as “spooky but friendly” and when I hear Nick Varney say that they “didn’t want anyone coming out of it crying or having nightmares”. I say I’m confused because I know many people who were absolutely terrified by the Haunted House in the 90s (my mum, for one, rode once in the 90s, and wouldn’t ride it again until 2021), as well as by Duel in 2021, which would certainly seem to go against the whole “we don’t want to give anyone nightmares” thing.
Sorry to keep asking so many questions; as I was never able to experience HH (or Duel before 2014, for that matter, and I have very little experience of Duel prior to 2020), this thread brings up a lot of questions for me about what the ride once was!
I only ask because I’m always confused when I hear people like John Wardley describe it as “spooky but friendly” and when I hear Nick Varney say that they “didn’t want anyone coming out of it crying or having nightmares”. I say I’m confused because I know many people who were absolutely terrified by the Haunted House in the 90s (my mum, for one, rode once in the 90s, and wouldn’t ride it again until 2021), as well as by Duel in 2021, which would certainly seem to go against the whole “we don’t want to give anyone nightmares” thing.
Sorry to keep asking so many questions; as I was never able to experience HH (or Duel before 2014, for that matter, and I have very little experience of Duel prior to 2020), this thread brings up a lot of questions for me about what the ride once was!
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Trooper Looper
TS Member
The original HH did had numerous amount of jumpscares but i think they were tame compared to other horror attractions with a little heads up before the scares, like how the audio alters every time a jumpscare happens, like a pre warning before the scare happens. I think it's cartoon/classic style to it gave it the "Spooky but friendly" quote. A good example of this is right after the Grand Hall Ghoul jumps at you, it then is shown holding a cup of tea (Now a rat) to comfort the riders, and saying "I didn't mean to Frighten you." During its opening year, the HH was very jumpscare-y as most of the scenes were still in their original intended state, but during its last years of operating, there was just too much noise and lots of strobe lights which made the jumpscare not as effective.
This still can be seen on Duel as the Music is very loud and the many zombie jumpscares, along with lights exposing mechanics, making the props not as scary as they used to be.
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Nerdsticks
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Silver Star
The worst zombie addition by far was the one before the giant spider. I just don't know why they thought that was a good idea, fills the room with obnoxious strobe and almost immediately after the loud yelling the spider effect is triggered, it's so jarring and weird. Granted all the additions when it transitioned to Duel were questionable but that specific one I dislike the most.
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Matt.GC
TS Member
The Vestibule music was used in the indoor queue line section every time I rode it in 2020. Possibly 2019 as well so you probably did hear it but just didn't notice it. The only reason I noticed it was because I hadn't heard it in 20 years and instantly recognised it triggering (good) memories.
I'm completely opposite with the new music. Although Duels interior soundtrack was awful, I actually liked the outdoor queue line Duel music. I thought it was sinister and atmospheric, even a little comical in a way. The new stuff just sounds dull to me. I know I'm in the minority there though. Maybe people are liking the 2018 version because they associate the original Duel tracks with the demise of HH. Maybe I'm not liking the 2018 version because I associate it with moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic.
In answer to your questions about what the ride experience of HH was like, well it was half way between a traditional dark ride and a traditional ghost train. Inspired by an old school ghost train but with proper theme park dark ride theming behind it. Very unique and very Towers. You could go on quality dark rides anywhere, you could go on a ghost train anywhere, but you couldn't do the Haunted House anywhere else.
It was low tech by modern standards and looked very old school dark rideish. But that suited it. It wasn't "darker" in the general sense, just better designed than it is now. Basically the best way to describe it was it was less fluorescent, more things seemed to move and you couldn't see walls or mechanisms. This led to a feeling of high quality and atmosphere.
It's tone was generally light hearted humour. You came off laughing because it was fun and humorous. Now you come off laughing at how pathetic it is. A monster with a cup of tea - funny. A completely generic zombie on a stick that just swings out and does nothing, also funny but in a different way.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Interesting regarding The Vestibule! I went on it once in 2020 and once in 2021, and both times I remember it playing the new Simon Allen track throughout the attraction... maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention? In my defence, my 2021 ride on Duel was walk-on, so I didn't really spend much time in the drawing room on that particular occasion... in terms of the new music, though, I love it, and that's not just because I harbour hatred towards the previous Duel track, because trust me, I don't! (I actually think the old Duel track admittedly suited the fast-paced interactivity element well, but I overall prefer the current track)
Interesting you should say about the new soundtrack being like "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", also. Do you really think Duel is that problematic in its present state?
I actually don't think Duel is the massive problem that many make it out to be myself. Sure, it's not one of my favourite dark rides, and it doesn't stack up to Disney's Haunted Mansion (which I personally really enjoyed; I only use HM because it's the only other equivalent "spooky" dark ride I've done), but I think that's more down to the nature of it not really appealing to me as much as that of some other dark rides I've done (I'm not personally as much of a fan of the random jumpscare-based format of Duel, preferring a more story-driven, ambient style myself when it comes to spooky dark rides. Call me a coward, but I dare say I find Duel a touch too dark, loud and generally overwhelming for my liking...). However, for the ghost train-style attraction it's meant to be, I personally think it does that rather well! The jumpscares are there, the ambience is there; what more could you really ask for from a simple old-style ghost train?
Of the 3 operating dark rides at Alton Towers, I'd be inclined to say it's my least favourite (I feel like I should put it above GG, as I know GG is more aimed at children, but I do really like the story-driven style of GG, and I think it's a far more enjoyable dark ride than the sum of its parts would suggest!), but I wouldn't say it's an utterly awful dark ride by any means.
For context, however, do bear in mind that I never experienced Duel in its "prime". I do really appreciate all of your collective insights, in that regard!
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Trooper Looper
TS Member
Even though I've never ridden the HH, i just get a lot of nostalgia from it for some reason lol. Its sad that it probably never see the lights of day again, it looked to be one of the best and most unique dark rides in the world, and now we're stuck with an out of trend laser shooter attraction.
Matt.GC
TS Member
Well since you've both never ridden HH, I understand now why it intrigues both of you so much and it's great to be able converse with people who see it from a difference perspective.
As with everything, whether you like Duel or HH or not is of course highly subjective and down to personal taste. I find there's not only a lot of defense of Duel for what I see as indefensible things, but also alot of hyping of HH as if it was some godly attraction. In my opinion from being there, riding HH its opening season, to seeing Duel from open to how it is now, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding and rose tinted spec wearing.
Please don't think of HH as either Haunted Mansion or a traditional fair ground Ghost Train. It was kind of a mixture of both. The ride system was bespoke and was designed to isolate you and twist and turn around the scenes. It was inspired heavily by ghost trains but at the same time wasn't one if that makes sense? If Haunted mansion is kind of a creepy ghost tour, this was a blast through instead. Having ridden HH and HM in Magic Kingdom only weeks apart in 93 and 94, I would argue that HH was more enjoyable. In your face, full of laughs, very creative, very unique. Not of the same standard of course, but it ticked all the boxes.
It was an excellent, well designed and well thought out attraction that was exactly what the park needed at the time. But make no mistake, it was pretty broken and unpopular come the 2000's. Duel not only added lasers, but also the cheap kind of props you would find in a standard ghost train. There's still loads of original stuff in there (you never forget the sound of the screaming heads for instance, Est 1992 and still there to this day) but it's not the same ride. It feels so empty and everything just seems so naff like it was designed as a primary school art project. HH itself would not stand up today, despite the amount of nostalgia attached to it. But Duel doesn't either and has outstayed it's welcome.
I'm sure Duel is OK in a sense that you can have a quick blast through with a laser in your hand for a laugh with the kids and then never do it again. But it just being there ruins the park brand as far as I'm concerned. Of course some people enjoy it, but it's clear it's not of the same level as Hex or GG. It feels like a suped up funfair ride now and for the life of me I can't think why anyone would think brightly lit warehouse walls and prop mechanisms is acceptable in a theme park dark ride.
It is time to say goodbye to Duel. But at the same time, Alton really should have a good ghost train. I'd hate for some crappy IP screen ride to be shoved in there instead and I think it has a great façade and ride system. I just wish they'd just kit it out to be a good ride and rename it or something.
As with everything, whether you like Duel or HH or not is of course highly subjective and down to personal taste. I find there's not only a lot of defense of Duel for what I see as indefensible things, but also alot of hyping of HH as if it was some godly attraction. In my opinion from being there, riding HH its opening season, to seeing Duel from open to how it is now, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding and rose tinted spec wearing.
Please don't think of HH as either Haunted Mansion or a traditional fair ground Ghost Train. It was kind of a mixture of both. The ride system was bespoke and was designed to isolate you and twist and turn around the scenes. It was inspired heavily by ghost trains but at the same time wasn't one if that makes sense? If Haunted mansion is kind of a creepy ghost tour, this was a blast through instead. Having ridden HH and HM in Magic Kingdom only weeks apart in 93 and 94, I would argue that HH was more enjoyable. In your face, full of laughs, very creative, very unique. Not of the same standard of course, but it ticked all the boxes.
It was an excellent, well designed and well thought out attraction that was exactly what the park needed at the time. But make no mistake, it was pretty broken and unpopular come the 2000's. Duel not only added lasers, but also the cheap kind of props you would find in a standard ghost train. There's still loads of original stuff in there (you never forget the sound of the screaming heads for instance, Est 1992 and still there to this day) but it's not the same ride. It feels so empty and everything just seems so naff like it was designed as a primary school art project. HH itself would not stand up today, despite the amount of nostalgia attached to it. But Duel doesn't either and has outstayed it's welcome.
I'm sure Duel is OK in a sense that you can have a quick blast through with a laser in your hand for a laugh with the kids and then never do it again. But it just being there ruins the park brand as far as I'm concerned. Of course some people enjoy it, but it's clear it's not of the same level as Hex or GG. It feels like a suped up funfair ride now and for the life of me I can't think why anyone would think brightly lit warehouse walls and prop mechanisms is acceptable in a theme park dark ride.
It is time to say goodbye to Duel. But at the same time, Alton really should have a good ghost train. I'd hate for some crappy IP screen ride to be shoved in there instead and I think it has a great façade and ride system. I just wish they'd just kit it out to be a good ride and rename it or something.
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