Existential Crisis? Towers and it's future

[rob666]

Been that way for a while now.
Some years in my eyes.

 

[BarryZola]

That's kind of what happens when you don't open a decent brand new ride for 6 years and the ones you have left pretty much stop operating properly half the time. It's a bit like football. The players have a responsibility to give the fans something to cheer about. If the football is constantly drab and getting worse you'll get a negative response from the crowd.

 

[MaxPower]

It's hard to watch something degrade year after year, knowing the parent company has the resources to improve things but choose not to.

 

[venny]

As has been said, the current approach and negative perspective of Alton Towers is just a reflection of what’s being offered.

I’m sure it’s right to say that the reason people are so upset is that they have an emotional connection with the park - they want it to do well, but it’s upsetting and frustrating that the current product is just so poor, thus the negative reactions.

 

[havaska]

To be honest I can see Merlin selling off Alton Towers along with Heide Park at some point. It’s clear their main focus is Lego and London, along with their midways. It doesn’t really fit their portfolio anymore.

Our best hope is a decent operator snaps them up (please not Six Flags). Because the future is definitely not bright with Merlin, sadly.

 

[owenstreet7]

To be honest I can see Merlin selling off Alton Towers along with Heide Park at some point. It’s clear their main focus is Lego and London, along with their midways. It doesn’t really fit their portfolio anymore.

Our best hope is a decent operator snaps them up (please not Six Flags). Because the future is definitely not bright with Merlin, sadly.

I'm not sure I see Merlin selling Alton Towers as it would take a lot of money of investment for a buyer to fix Alton Towers.

It'd be a significant investment to sort out the existing ride portfolio, replacing rides that have been removed without replacement, adding new rides followed by infrastructure investments.

I can imagine them keeping Towers going as it is with occasional investment and the same old problems. More investment will likely go Chessington and possibly Thorpe Park's way instead.

There's parks in a much worse situation than Towers at the moment where there's minimal investment such as Pleasurewood Hills, Oakwood and Lightwater Valley.

Even Blackpool are not in as bad of a situation with Mandy in comparison to those parks.

Both Towers and Blackpool are experiencing their own problems however are still investing in the parks with Project Ocean and the Gyro Swing respectively. They both haven't had a major brand new coaster since 2018.

 

[rob666]

Why would you say BPB aren't doing as bad?
They have massive overheads compared to the others, low recent attendance in what should be their peak, and nobody has seen any sign of any new ride there yet.
I see no evidence of investment in Blackpool at all, just many closed rides that were open recently.

 

[owenstreet7]

Why would you say BPB aren't doing as bad?
They have massive overheads compared to the others, low recent attendance in what should be their peak, and nobody has seen any sign of any new ride there yet.
I see no evidence of investment in Blackpool at all, just many closed rides that were open recently.

In comparison to the likes of Oakwood, yes BPB are in a better place.

With Oakwood, they've bought in a secondhand Pinfari from M&Ds which has been SBNO for months recently, a Disko that's not from Zamperla, a retrack of Megafobia, Drenched and Spooky 3D is SBNO and Bounce has been SBNO for years until it opened last year and it had a major accident earlier this year.

Pleasurewood Hills is removing rides regularly with no replacement and has had a major coaster down for most of the year (Marble Madness).

Lightwater Valley removed the majority of it's thrill rides including the Ultimate and bought in a Cyclon coaster however it hasn't gone well for them with downtime and it being SBNO as well.

I'd say all 3 parks are in far more of a state than BPB. BPB whilst is quieter more recently has managed to reopen Valhalla, are working on Ice Blast at the moment with the scaffolding and there is construction work going on at the Bowladrome. River Caves and the Dodgems do seem to be in a sad state though

It's arguable whether Towers or Blackpool are in a worst state or in as bad of a state as one another. I'd argue that it's Towers to be honest but that's my personal opinion.

 

[rob666]

Blackpool has had about a dozen rides closed all season, first time ever in my experience.

 

[Quantum]

In comparison to the likes of Oakwood, yes BPB are in a better place.

With Oakwood, they've bought in a secondhand Pinfari from M&Ds which has been SBNO for months recently, a Disko that's not from Zamperla, a retrack of Megafobia, Drenched and Spooky 3D is SBNO and Bounce has been SBNO for years until it opened last year and it had a major accident earlier this year.

Pleasurewood Hills is removing rides regularly with no replacement and has had a major coaster down for most of the year (Marble Madness).

Lightwater Valley removed the majority of it's thrill rides including the Ultimate and bought in a Cyclon coaster however it hasn't gone well for them with downtime and it being SBNO as well.

I'd say all 3 parks are in far more of a state than BPB. BPB whilst is quieter more recently has managed to reopen Valhalla, are working on Ice Blast at the moment with the scaffolding and there is construction work going on at the Bowladrome. River Caves and the Dodgems do seem to be in a sad state though

It's arguable whether Towers or Blackpool are in a worst state or in as bad of a state as one another. I'd argue that it's Towers to be honest but that's my personal opinion.

I'd add Flambards onto that list as well. It's a smaller park but it's had an absolute train wreck of a year. I think they are a gonner.

PB has many problems but in the wider context they still have a decent lineup. One of the parks on this list will close in the next few seasons, it's inevitable.

 

[owenstreet7]

I'd add Flambards onto that list as well. It's a smaller park but it's had an absolute train wreck of a year. I think they are a gonner.

Yes, Flambards too and that's incredibly sad as it reminded me of Paultons Park from the early 2000s. I have a bit of a soft spot for the park.

I'm hoping they either replace or reopen Hornet however I think it'll end up getting a buyout, downscale or close down completely.

 

[QTXAdsy]

The thing is though regarding Towers and how I mentioned that just maybe enthusiasts have a wee part to play in all this too, I can't help but think that nowadays that every new ride or reopening or new credit I can't help but notice that no one seems to simply enjoy a ride these days without over analysing everything about it from smoothness, air time, theming, storyline, through put and other matters which is almost very much like for fans nowadays for films or shows these days with these over analysing videos on YouTube and in many ways the coaster community is no exception.

The whole essay worth of stuff on just the disco lights on Hex, how Nemesis is too serious or thousands of other things that just me wonder if in general, even if Towers weren't in such a state right now, have we all forgotten just to enjoy a attraction for what it is or is being an art critic more important?

From that to Towers' plight, it's a depressing and lethal cocktail that honestly I don't want to get into detail ad there is honestly nothing good worth talking about now which includes the other UK theme parks in general. Honestly if not for Paultons then honestly I question why I waste my time doing this as a hobby and a place I want to express my love for as it feels like Groundhog day reading the same thing everyday almost about all the issues with seemingly nothing being done about it and the less said about closed season the better...

And this is all coming from a cynic at heart who even I say is losing the will to put with others like myself. Christ I hate being such an asshole at times and didn't mean to ramble on like this.

 

[Shaggy_Dog_]

Both Towers and Blackpool are experiencing their own problems however are still investing in the parks with Project Ocean and the Gyro Swing respectively. They both haven't had a major brand new coaster since 2018.

Don't forget though that Towers had plans for Project Horizon and something most definitely changed and it's current status is unclear as to what is happening with it (and whether it will eventually happen or not) and there has been no confirmation that the BPB are actually going ahead with opening a gyro swing. Both projects may or may not end up a victim of a changed strategy or of financial pressures.

 

[s_g_k]

The thing is though regarding Towers and how I mentioned that just maybe enthusiasts have a wee part to play in all this too, I can't help but think that nowadays that every new ride or reopening or new credit I can't help but notice that no one seems to simply enjoy a ride these days without over analysing everything about it from smoothness, air time, theming, storyline, through put and other matters which is almost very much like for fans nowadays for films or shows these days with these over analysing videos on YouTube and in many ways the coaster community is no exception.

The whole essay worth of stuff on just the disco lights on Hex, how Nemesis is too serious or thousands of other things that just me wonder if in general, even if Towers weren't in such a state right now, have we all forgotten just to enjoy a attraction for what it is or is being an art critic more important?

From that to Towers' plight, it's a depressing and lethal cocktail that honestly I don't want to get into detail ad there is honestly nothing good worth talking about now which includes the other UK theme parks in general. Honestly if not for Paultons then honestly I question why I waste my time doing this as a hobby and a place I want to express my love for as it feels like Groundhog day reading the same thing everyday almost about all the issues with seemingly nothing being done about it and the less said about closed season the better...

And this is all coming from a cynic at heart who even I say is losing the will to put with others like myself. Christ I hate being such an asshole at times and didn't mean to ramble on like this.

This is a good post, but I feel like a lot of us on this forum over criticise because deep down we still absolutely love Alton Towers. There’s no other park like it in the U.K. It has sentimental value for me because my grandad was a chef in the Swiss Cottage restaurant, and then because I grew up in Uttoxeter, my dad always took me up to the Towers several times a year as a kid in what were the proper golden years.

As a mid thirties aged man now, I still visit at least twice a year. Some key attractions and infrastructure need to return to get this place back to what it once was. The park needs flat rides, a flume, the indoor boat ride reopening, plus a couple of new indoor 4D/flying theatre attractions. For those who grew up with the ice rink and Peter Rabbit like I did, I’m sure you’ll agree that the stage on the lawns just isn’t as magical enough.

And please do something with the Swiss Cottage, purely for my own personal sentimental value.

 

[QTXAdsy]

This is a good post, but I feel like a lot of us on this forum over criticise because deep down we still absolutely love Alton Towers. There’s no other park like it in the U.K. It has sentimental value for me because my grandad was a chef in the Swiss Cottage restaurant, and then because I grew up in Uttoxeter, my dad always took me up to the Towers several times a year as a kid in what were the proper golden years.

As a mid thirties aged man now, I still visit at least twice a year. Some key attractions and infrastructure need to return to get this place back to what it once was. The park needs flat rides, a flume, the indoor boat ride reopening, plus a couple of new indoor 4D/flying theatre attractions. For those who grew up with the ice rink and Peter Rabbit like I did, I’m sure you’ll agree that the stage on the lawns just isn’t as magical enough.

And please do something with the Swiss Cottage, purely for my own personal sentimental value.

Admittedly I haven't got quite the same sort of love for the park as others given I live for away and at best can only come once a year and sometimes once every 3 years so I might not be noticing all the flaws the park might be going through had it not been slapped in my face constantly for those closer to the park.

My memories of the golden years are vague and wouldn't really get into Towers fully until about 2005, ironically when many would say it's decline started so you could say I've experienced nothing but crap for nearly 20 years now was is honestly horrendous to think about.

Had I lived closer I would likely have something different to say but since I live for away and can't really compare the park to anyway else, it does make me sound like I have lousy expectations who is easily pleased for just being there which is a embarrassing achievement in itself.

All I want is to go to the park and just try and enjoy it for what it is, bad or worse, and make my own assumptions to know how truly bad it is but alas so much had been hammered into me about a 'crisis' that me that from my own first hand account saying it's all terrible would just be me preaching to the converted so there isn't anything really to add to the topic other than pray that things can only get better from here but we can't have nice things and must wallow and weep in a symphony of silence.

 

[Jb85]

Don't forget though that Towers had plans for Project Horizon and something most definitely changed and it's current status is unclear as to what is happening with it (and whether it will eventually happen or not) and there has been no confirmation that the BPB are actually going ahead with opening a gyro swing. Both projects may or may not end up a victim or a changed strategy or a financial pressures.

I’ll tell you what’s changed.
Universal

In general - Universal will bring visitors to the UK - no doubt. It’s likely those visitors will do ‘London’ - most will stay in London.

Thorpe is too small a footprint to really expand. Which leaves Alton or Chessie. Alton is a nightmare to get to from London.

So the logical investment to capitalise on additional London based visitors is - invest in Chessie

Ironic really considering four years ago it looked the most likely for the chop.
But I really do believe the rumours we heard not all that long ago of £100m for Chessie
I also think it’s now the most likely of the parks to see innovation in coaster designs which we used to see at Alton.

 

[AltonLover123]

So the logical investment to capitalise on additional London based visitors is - invest in Chessie

Ironic really considering four years ago it looked the most likely for the chop.
But I really do believe the rumours we heard not all that long ago of £100m for Chessie
I also think it’s now the most likely of the parks to see innovation in coaster designs which we used to see at Alton.

Chessington is never going to expand rapidly of the like you seem to be suggesting.

Yes, they’ll get investment, but there’s no way it’s going to become bigger or “better” than Thorpe/Alton.

Chessie is mostly for younger guests.

Thorpe is targeted at teenagers and young adults.

Alton is the mix between the two. Legoland is also a mix but with its IP it’s always going to market for the younger crowd over the families but it is actually an everyone can ride the rides together park.

Universal is touted as this holy grail that’ll end all other UK theme parks. It won’t happen. Universal tickets will be far beyond what we pay for a Merlin park. People will still buy MAP as it’ll be waaaay cheaper and a more rinse and repeat visit type of an affair. Universal will be a massive treat every few years type place (for anyone who routinely visits parks). Yes, it’ll most likely be amazing but it’s pricing won’t be accessible like the Merlin parks.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I’ll tell you what’s changed.
Universal

In general - Universal will bring visitors to the UK - no doubt. It’s likely those visitors will do ‘London’ - most will stay in London.

Thorpe is too small a footprint to really expand. Which leaves Alton or Chessie. Alton is a nightmare to get to from London.

So the logical investment to capitalise on additional London based visitors is - invest in Chessie

Ironic really considering four years ago it looked the most likely for the chop.
But I really do believe the rumours we heard not all that long ago of £100m for Chessie
I also think it’s now the most likely of the parks to see innovation in coaster designs which we used to see at Alton.

It also helps, of course, that they still own the freehold for Chessington and don't have to lease it, which makes it cheaper to run from the off.

 

[owenstreet7]

I don't think Chessington will expand by land size too much however it will more likely expand using existing land from places such as the Zoo i.e. Trail of the Kings, or expand by replacing aging rides.

Thorpe Park could expand into the island behind Swarm, the old Treasure Island or parts of the lake they could infill. Other than that, it will likely be replacements.

Universal is touted as this holy grail that’ll end all other UK theme parks. It won’t happen. Universal tickets will be far beyond what we pay for a Merlin park. People will still buy MAP as it’ll be waaaay cheaper and a more rinse and repeat visit type of an affair. Universal will be a massive treat every few years type place (for anyone who routinely visits parks). Yes, it’ll most likely be amazing but it’s pricing won’t be accessible like the Merlin parks.

It'll be similar to France that parks will continue to run alongside Universal. The UK parks will be more for a domestic audience whilst Universal will be more of a destination for tourists (both international and domestic).

A lot of people especially in the South would see Alton Towers as this "once in a few years park" due to it's location.

This is a good post, but I feel like a lot of us on this forum over criticise because deep down we still absolutely love Alton Towers. There’s no other park like it in the U.K. It has sentimental value for me because my grandad was a chef in the Swiss Cottage restaurant, and then because I grew up in Uttoxeter, my dad always took me up to the Towers several times a year as a kid in what were the proper golden years.

As a mid thirties aged man now, I still visit at least twice a year. Some key attractions and infrastructure need to return to get this place back to what it once was. The park needs flat rides, a flume, the indoor boat ride reopening, plus a couple of new indoor 4D/flying theatre attractions. For those who grew up with the ice rink and Peter Rabbit like I did, I’m sure you’ll agree that the stage on the lawns just isn’t as magical enough.

And please do something with the Swiss Cottage, purely for my own personal sentimental value.

I completely agree, a lot of people are very passionate about the park and it's supposed to be the UK's equivalent to Europa Park or Efteling. A lot of memories are made there and there's no other park with the atmosphere of Alton Towers.

I honestly feel that in order to kick start the park's return to it's former glories, it needs to put in the flats, open up the indoor boat ride/4D cinema/unused spaces and start planning for a new modern flume and a selection of new dark rides. I feel a new rollercoaster would be nice but it should take a backseat for the time being.

I'm thinking that with the right investment in rides, the towers, the gardens, maintenance and infrastructure - it can be a success.

 

[Benzin]

It's basically confirmed that for anything new Chessie need to replace existing attractions. Hence why Wild Asia and Mexicana are both on the chopping block on their long term plan.

Doubt there's much land available beyond their current borders either.