Alastair
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But it was quite literally decided by Michael Masi on the last lap of the final race?
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Formula One
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But it was quite literally decided by Michael Masi on the last lap of the final race?
Masi made a weird series of decisions motivated by the understandable (and correct, IMV) desire to see the season finish under racing conditions.
That in and of itself is unusual but to be the beneficiary of last lap of the season luck and misfortune is not unprecedented as Felipe Massa and Lewis Hamilton should both be able to attest.
You control the things inside your control but things often happen outside that. That is motor racing.
(Or if you're Mercedes you attempt to overstep that level of control, whinge like crazy when it doesn't work, launch frivolous attempts to have things spun back in your favour, send in expensive QCs for no other reason than to intimidate, refuse to back down then eventually back down casting shade over the whole sport.)
Tibble
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I've said it to so many people. To blame Max and claim that he doesn't deserve his title or they should 'share' it is wrong. Max and Red Bull have done nothing wrong in this final race. The argument is between the FIA and Mercedes.
Motor racing isn't fair. F1 isn't designed to be fair. Otherwise you might as well just have a centralised car created by the FIA and tell everyone to race in that car with their own liveries. F1 is about the passion for motor racing, and the pinnacle of engineers and companies making the best car possible being used by the best racers in the world.
The budget cap coming in will kerb the wild differences between teams slightly, but if you think they aren't already circumventing and using loop-holes to increase their budget caps then you would be very naive.
Over the year Red Bull have been on Merc like a rash, making sure they are compliant, some may seem this as whinging and moaning. But when Red bull were winning championships on repeat - teams were on them like a rash, same with Ferarri in the MS years. Its part of racing, you will do whatever it takes to get that team punished.
Was Lewis robbed by the FIA? Yes, it was a weird decision and gave max an advantage as he was on fresher tyres
Did Merc get their pit strategy wrong? Potentially - it allowed max to overtake because Lewis couldn't keep position if he pitted for new tyres
Did the FIA break rules? Remains to be seen - The race director is there to oversee the race, he felt he acted within his rights
Being a fan of F1 since birth and having a dad who worked for McLaren F1 for 16+ years I will say one thing though - it was a brilliant season, the best since 2016
Motor racing isn't fair. F1 isn't designed to be fair. Otherwise you might as well just have a centralised car created by the FIA and tell everyone to race in that car with their own liveries. F1 is about the passion for motor racing, and the pinnacle of engineers and companies making the best car possible being used by the best racers in the world.
The budget cap coming in will kerb the wild differences between teams slightly, but if you think they aren't already circumventing and using loop-holes to increase their budget caps then you would be very naive.
Over the year Red Bull have been on Merc like a rash, making sure they are compliant, some may seem this as whinging and moaning. But when Red bull were winning championships on repeat - teams were on them like a rash, same with Ferarri in the MS years. Its part of racing, you will do whatever it takes to get that team punished.
Was Lewis robbed by the FIA? Yes, it was a weird decision and gave max an advantage as he was on fresher tyres
Did Merc get their pit strategy wrong? Potentially - it allowed max to overtake because Lewis couldn't keep position if he pitted for new tyres
Did the FIA break rules? Remains to be seen - The race director is there to oversee the race, he felt he acted within his rights
Being a fan of F1 since birth and having a dad who worked for McLaren F1 for 16+ years I will say one thing though - it was a brilliant season, the best since 2016
Danza91
TS Member
Is Brazil 2008 really a fair comparison? 2008 was decided fairly on track under wet weather conditions. A race director changing how the safety car works for the last couple of laps of the season is totally different.
As IanB said, this is going to rumble on for some months. I think most people know what happened wasn't right, but we can only hope F1 and the FIA learn from it. Let's hope Lewis doesn't decide he's had enough because it really would be bad for a sport which has started to look like it's getting back on its feet again after a pretty poor last decade.
As IanB said, this is going to rumble on for some months. I think most people know what happened wasn't right, but we can only hope F1 and the FIA learn from it. Let's hope Lewis doesn't decide he's had enough because it really would be bad for a sport which has started to look like it's getting back on its feet again after a pretty poor last decade.
Rob
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Oh the irony. Of course, Red Bull, Horner and Marko are the saints of F1 and would never ever throw their toys out of the pram...!
There had only been one team principle questioning Masi's integrity before the final race and it was not Toto.
What's the relevance of that to my argument?
I think you're mistaking my criticism of Mercedes behaviour (some of which is unique to them - dragging a QC along and referring to what they could achieve in a court is definitely a new one on me) for a potshot from a RBR fanboy. I don't particularly support any driver or team.
Only in as much as the victor of the championship was eventually determined by factors other than those within the control of the teams and drivers in the championship fight and in circumstances very late in the final race. A detractor of Hamilton could say that it was a weird bit of weather that won him that point he needed to win - but to do so would be to completely ignore the stellar year he had otherwise had.
IanB
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Mercedes have been asking questions just as much. RedBull had to change their rear wing because of new tests introduced at the request of Mercedes (Which makes the Lewis penalty in Brazil ironic), and RedBull lost their pit stop performance advantage because of Mercedes request to introduce new measures for safety.
When Ferrari were almost beating Mercedes a few seasons, Mercedes complained about the Ferrari Engine, and Ferrari had to change something (It turns out Ferrari were doing something interesting)
Mercedes were allowed to keep DAS last system, but had it banned this season.
Red Bull got the rear wing tests checks further enhanced towards the end of the season, but to my knowledge, this did not require a change to the rear wing of the Mercedes.
All the team principles were putting pressure on the race director before the race, Mercedes were certainly pushing for different rules to be applied if there was contact between Lewis and Max, which decided the championship. Why should the last race have different rules applied to it. If Monza or Silverstone had been the final race, and resulted in the driver who got the penalty winning the World Championship, do they deserve an extra points penalty to stop them winning the championship? The race director clearly felt the need to call out that he would change the penalties applied for this race if required, its a shame he did not call out the fact in the pre race notes he would use what ever means necessary to finish the race under green, which would of avoided this mess.
All the teams are pushing the rule book as much as possible, and all of the teams are trying to call out the other teams for breaking the rules. All of the teams are putting pressure on the FIA to try and gain an advantage for their team. There is nothing you can do to stop this in F1. In running, or swimming, or golf, the different manufacture try to compete with each other to try and make shoes that bounce more and make you faster, swim costumes which help you float and go faster, or golf clubs which allow you to hit it further and straighter. These companies all lobby the governing bodies to allow their own products, or disallow their competitors products.
The referee in the Liverpool vs Newcastle game made a mistake yesterday, he allowed the game to play on when a Newcastle player had a head injury, this allowed Liverpool to gain an advantage and score an equalizer which lead to them going on to win the game. Does that make the Liverpool win tainted, does that mean if Liverpool win the premier league this season it is tainted? If Newcastle get relegated, should they be allowed to appeal and get compensation from the Premier League. Should that referee be sacked, and not allowed to referee again. Would it of made a difference if this was the final game of the season, and it had resulted in Liverpool winning the title, and Newcastle been relegated?
Stuff happens in sport which is not right and not fair. But it is part of sport and why we love to watch it, because you never know what is going to happen next. The rule book for F1 will be tidied up, and things made clearer. And next season, we wont have this issue, but we will have a different issue pop up.
BarryZola
TS Member
I hear Mercedes are pretending that Hamilton might retire due to what happened in the last race. Smacks of threatening to take your ball home because you aren't winning the football match. They need to grow up and use the unfairness that they experienced to spur them on and get revenge on the track next season.
I just hope they aren't tidied up in such a way that the season would have ended behind the safety car if they were in play this year. The sport needs to be spectacular and races shouldn't be ending behind the safety car unless there is literally no other way forward (e.g. this year's Belgian GP).
Rob
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That Belgian ‘race’ should never even have been started, let alone finished. Yet another farce of the 2021 season.
I am not surprised that Lewis is considering retiring. In the Covid world we live in, a lot has to be sacrificed to ensure that you stay fit and healthy, as missing just one race could cost you the title. He’s achieved everything there is to in the sport, and goes down as one of, if not the, greatest ever drivers. He will be gutted about how the season ended and having another title taken away from him. He doesn’t need more money, and if he’s decided he doesn’t need more glory and has had enough with the sport then I can’t blame him for wanting to focus on other aspects of his life.
Having said that, I hope he takes time to reflect and comes back next year to win another title.
Alastair
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This is an entirely facetious and completely false comparison. It's more similar to if Liverpool & City were both neck and neck heading into the final game of the season, where they happen to play each other. With City 4-0 up, the ref then decides to alter the rules and allow Liverpool 5 goals (at his own discretion) 1 minute from time to hand the Scousers the title.
You are *massively* trumping the whole thing up.
Who knows what will happen by then. We could realistically have seen all the current WDC winners except Max retire by 2024.
Seems daft to even speculate tbh.
Jb85
TS Member
I can see Dani Ric or Lando going to Merc IF Hamilton quits
Jb85
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I don’t blame him for not going, his mind is clearly not in the right place. So why go and risk saying or doing something to the media that shouldn’t be said.
I see the little git Max has had his say in Lewis.
I have to say the Netflix documentary really doesn’t paint a good picture of Max - he really is the spilt brat he comes across as