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Formula One

It was a very interesting qualifying session yesterday. So pleased for Russell and I’ll be intrigued as to how the start of the race will play out as he’s between Verstappen and Hamilton.

Great news that Lando will be racing today but sadly due to a gear box change, he’s been given a 4 grid penalty so I believe he’s now starting in 14th place. Hopefully he can claw his way back to the top!
 
Feel really sorry for the fans at the track today, not getting to see an F1 race (They did get to see a F3 race and a Porsche race which was really good, and you should watch it if you can) but what is it with F1 fans leaving rubbish at the track side(Its not just Spa, Silverstone is just as bad).


I am a little torn on awarding points today, part of me is thinking it was not a race, so why award points, and the other half is they put everything on the line on Saturday to qualify and they deserve something for that. In my head, I am thinking 0-25% race distance complete, award half points based on Qualifying, 25-65% award half points based on positions 2 laps before race is stopped, and after 65% award full points.

Qualifying is Qualifying, and this weekend shows why it should not be messed around with. I don't mind four Grand Slam (Silverstone, Monaco, Monza and Brazil?) races having Sprint Races, but make them sprint races, uses the same Qualifying results for both races, and who knows, with the punishment of not finishing a sprint race reduced, it might encourage more overtakes.

I am really pleased for George to finally claim his first podium in F1, and in a Williams. I expect we will be seeing a lot more of these three on the podium next year.

It was frustrating that the only reason they could not race was the spray, and I don't know how you solve that. Maybe have the old style Monsoon tyres instead of extremes? Is Spa the only track this could of happened on? Should they get rid of Parc Ferme so they can change the car setups before the race? (Yes, yes they should).

Could they have done several laps behind the safety car, then several laps under VSC with the VSC being turned off half way round the lap so they would be more spread out?

It was good to see Albon in the pits today, and having a good conversation with Max about something. Red Bull mechanics were on it again, but Perez was disappointing again, with his contract signed for next year, he should have a weight off his shoulders, but he was off the pace in Qual, and binned it on his out lap, what is it with Red Bull drivers binning their cars on out laps.
 
Well I'm glad I checked the BBC text commentary before the start of the race rather than trying to stay spoiler-free for the C4 highlights like I normally do, that would have been rather disappointing viewing otherwise.

I think the rules need reworking for a situation like today where no actual racing takes place. Counting the couple of laps they did behind the safety car as a "race" for the purposes of awarding 1/2 points seems a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, I can see merit in an allowance for points to be awarded based on qualifying for when no racing is possible at all, as was the case today, though I'd argue it should be less than the half points for a curtailed race. Maybe something like points for the top 5 (after any grid penalties), 8-6-4-2-1? Once a handful of racing laps have been completed they would instead award half points as per the current rules. Similarly, awarding full points should require a certain number of the laps to be under green flag conditions in addition to just the number of laps completed.

Regardless of who comes out on top in both championships, I hope the winning margin is enough that the points from today don't matter. Whether or not Hamilton's disparaging comments after the race were influenced by the net loss of a few points in the title battle will no doubt be the subject of many an online argument.
 
I had the (excellent) 5live comms on as usual, and Jolyon Palmer made the point that if points weren't awarded in these circumstances, and something similar happened at a track like Monaco where 90% of the race result is decided on Saturday, then the drivers who did the majority of the hard work for those points would then get nothing as a result.

I think there has to be something to show for the work that goes in to making a grand prix weekend happen. Imagine working in Williams, in Russel's garage, and going home with 0 points despite the fact he got to 2nd on merit and had no opportunity to defend that. It's not the way anyone wants it to be done but I doubt this will be the last time a race is stopped after less than a dozen laps.
 
There was no racing at all.
The laps were completely meaningless, but the drivers were put at risk in a needlessly dangerous procession.
The points should not have been awarded.
The stewards need a kick up the arse for sending the drivers out.
F1 is now a money making pollution machine for the very rich.
 
A percentage of points for quali position on an abandoned race would be fine, that farce wasn't.

Loved Lewis on the post 'race' interview saying the fans at the track should all get their money back. I bet the powers that be who engineered a race result being achieved were well pleased with him for that! :laughing::laughing:
 
Well what a complete and utter farce Sunday was. The correct decision not to race; I think had it been at other circuits then they could have raced in those conditions however there have been some serious accidents at Spa in recent years and it would have been asking to put someone in hospital or maybe even worse. Didn't help that the rain was constant either.

I know the FIA are saying this is not what they did, but it did look to me like they deliberately took the cars out for two laps behind the safety car just so that they could have a classification, issue some points and have a podium. Race point should not be awarded when there has been no race. The event should have just been abandoned. It was clear that conditions were worse than when they originally went out so I am not buying that the FIA and F1 genuinely thought there was a window to race in.

I notice Red Bull and Verstappen have been rather quiet on these two laps, I wonder why! If Verstappen does win the title, I hope it is by more than 5 points.
 
An absolute farce and a slap in the face of the fans who have stuck by the sport throughout some of the dross we've had in recent years. No points should have been awarded and taking them out was clearly to get a 'result'.

I've found the way Russell and Williams have been celebrating this 'podium' a big cringey to be totally honest. I get it's a big deal for them, but still...
 
Danza91 said:
I've found the way Russell and Williams have been celebrating this 'podium' a big cringey to be totally honest. I get it's a big deal for them, but still...
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Agreed. If I was Russell I'd be pretty gutted that my first ever F1 podium was handed to me on a plate and not earned. Yes a great job in qualifying, but F1 is all about the race which is a totally different challenge.
 
Rob said:
Agreed. If I was Russell I'd be pretty gutted that my first ever F1 podium was handed to me on a plate and not earned. Yes a great job in qualifying, but F1 is all about the race which is a totally different challenge.
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I think describing his podium as served on a plate is a bit much tbh. He didn't just coast his way to second on the grid in a Williams.

Indeed I'd argue there was more in terms of merit from the driver there than Ocon or Vettel in Hungary, who just found themselves in the positions they were in.

Good to see the excuses for Hamilton/Mercedes defeat are being lined up by fans already with 10 races to go tho.
 
WillPS said:
I think describing his podium as served on a plate is a bit much tbh. He didn't just coast his way to second on the grid in a Williams.

Indeed I'd argue there was more in terms of merit from the driver there than Ocon or Vettel in Hungary, who just found themselves in the positions they were in.

Good to see the excuses for Hamilton/Mercedes defeat are being lined up by fans already with 10 races to go tho.
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Qualifying second in the Williams was a huge achievement. Finishing on the podium after a race would have been an epic achivement and if we are being honest. I think Russell is a far better driver than Ocon, but I don't agree that there was more merit to the Russell podium than the Ocon win. Ocon had to drive the majority of the race in the lead, under pressure from Vettel, and did not make a single mistake.

Anyone who had points on Sunday had them handed to them on a plate. You get points for racing, not for qualifying. They did not race! I know there is the Monaco arguement whereby qualifying often determines the race result but even then the drivers have to be fully focused for the duration of the race and not put the car in to the barriers.

It just seemed to me that for whatever reason, the FIA/F1 sent the cars out for two laps so that they could get a classification. I've not idea if that would be for commercial reasons, financial reasons or whatever. But it didn't take a genius to see that the track was not going to dry.

I'd be saying exactly the same if Hamilton qualified on pole position and Verstappen was third. And I'm sure Helmut Marko (and Horner) would have had far more to say if it was that way round!
 
Rob said:
Anyone who had points on Sunday had them handed to them on a plate. You get points for racing, not for qualifying. They did not race! I know there is the Monaco arguement whereby qualifying often determines the race result but even then the drivers have to be fully focused for the duration of the race and not put the car in to the barriers.
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Qualifying is more difficult than racing, and racing is more difficult that qualifying. They both require different skill sets. Qualifying is about being on the limit for one lap, going for that perfect lap without any mistakes. Your reward for that is starting on pole, which is why I dislike the Sprint Qualifying format. The race is about managing the car for 300km, and working as a team to perform the best you can. In those conditions, where George managed to get his Williams in to second place, I do not see any reason why he would of not being able to keep it up near the front. If Qual had been dry, he would of not been up there, and if the race had been dry, he would probably have struggled to keep it in the top eight. If they had managed to start the race, anything could of happened but sadly we will never know.

For me, that is the most frustrating thing about the race not being a race. All these un answered questions. Would Max of won? What could George do? Would Lewis be able to go wheel to wheel with Max? What would Lando do from the back? Who would go to inters first, would anyone try slicks. Would there be a safety car, who would win and lose from it.

As a fan of F1, we all lost yesterday, but the FIA did everything it could to get the race going, except let the cars drive under VSC for a few laps.

They extended the time limit, waited for a gap in the weather, tried to clear the track as best they could, but until they sent the drivers out on track, and got feedback how do they know what the conditions on track are going to be. Sadly the gap they were expecting did not come, and the problem with F1 cars is you cant wait for the gap before telling everyone your going racing, as by the time everyone's ready, the gap in the weather is gone. We have seen that in the past, sadly this time, they sent them out, and the gap did not appear.

I feel calling it a farce is a little unfair on Masi, I am not sure he was laughing much about the situation he found himself in. Don't send the drivers out and get kicked for not trying, send the drivers out and get kicked that the race started and people got points for not racing. Their is already some noises being made about not running F1 in the rain similar to Nascar, which I am sure we can all agree is something we don't want. Is there a similar word to Farce, but which does not reference the comedy part of it?

Call me naive, but I believe that the only reason Masi sent them out, was to try and get them racing, and it was nothing to do with the financial side of F1.

I think this event was the perfect storm. This weather on any other track would of probably been manageable. At the initial start, my understanding was that it was only the spray that was the issue, the grip was there. On the second start, I think all the drivers, including Max said it would un-driveable.

This will probably never happen again for 20-30 years.

What would of happened with the penalties applied at Spa if the race had been abandoned? Would they carry over to Zandvoort, or have they already being applied and therefore would not of applied? Would that of been fair?

I have no problem with points being awarded for this weekend, and don't think it will taint the championship any more then Lewis being more at fault for Max retiring at Silverstone, or Bottas taking Lando and Max out, or the new qualifying sprint race, or the fastest lap times getting a point or DRS making it to easy for the fast cars to overtake :p

I do get that money is important in Sport these days, and the F1 rule book was not quite prepared for a day like today, but there is still a lot more racing to go this season, and I will finish this far to long post with a Murray Walker quote, I always misquote :)

Murray Walker said:
IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelled backwards.
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I'm inclined to agree @IanB - and I really don't see what grounds the FIA would have for ensuring an event happened - that's one of the many very good reasons why there is a separation between the FIA (who manage the sporting event) and the Formula One Group (who manage the commercial partnerships with tracks, broadcasters, etc).

The only real positive is that it's only a few days before the next race.
 


For anyone who missed the race and has no idea what we are talking about, above is a nice summary. It made me smile. Quite interesting watching the races back on this channel, the Hungary one they re-created the damage on Verstappen's car :)
 
You can't call that a race - if I were the FIA I would restate that a race is anything over 5 SC free laps.
 
Im thinking for 2022

McLaren - Riccardo and Norris
Ferarri - LeClerc and Sainz
Mercedes - Hamilton and Russell
Red Bull - Verstappen and Perez
Aston Martin - Vettel and Stroll
Haas - Mazapin and Schumacher
Williams - Latifi and Aitken
Alfa Romeo - Bottas and Hulkenberg
Alpha Tauri - Tsnosa and Gasley
Alpine - Alonso and Ocon
 
Tibble said:
Im thinking for 2022

McLaren - Riccardo and Norris
Ferarri - LeClerc and Sainz
Mercedes - Hamilton and Russell
Red Bull - Verstappen and Perez
Aston Martin - Vettel and Stroll
Haas - Mazapin and Schumacher
Williams - Latifi and Aitken
Alfa Romeo - Bottas and Hulkenberg
Alpha Tauri - Tsnosa and Gasley
Alpine - Alonso and Ocon
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Sounds like it is Albon who could be getting the second Williams seat. Much less pressure for him there than Red Bull, so hopefully he does well.
 
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