GCSEs to be Scrapped

[Alastair]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

Exams should be scrapped entirely. Education should be about learning about how the world works, not passing tests designed to gauge your potential productivity to free-market capitalism.

Why don't we implement anarchy as well

Because by definition anarchy could never be implemented?

Well it could if the people rose up and took that stance, such as in the Spanish Revolution.

 

[adsyrah]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

Exams should be scrapped entirely. Education should be about learning about how the world works, not passing tests designed to gauge your potential productivity to free-market capitalism.

I think that's a far too simplistic approach.

How do universities decide who gets into a course?
How do you gauge whether a student has learnt what's expected to be taught?
How does a future employee decide whether an applicant is telling the truth about their abilities?

I don't agree that exams are gauging your productivity at all - they're about students showing what they've learnt and what they're capable of. The problem at the moment is to do with the content and structure of exams plus how the government uses these results (league tables / teacher bashing). But I think what you're suggesting really is a "race to the bottom" as rather than letting students show what they're capable of, you're telling them academics don't matter - whereas they matter a great deal when you look at who will go on to further fields of research.

------

The idea of unlimited growth is a complete fallacy when you look at grades. Governments shouldn't be chastising schools who don't get great A*-C results. They should be looking at what a child's potential is and whether a school is helping a child reach that potential. It's a sad fact of life that some people are more able to study some subjects than others, so this idea of normalising what grade should be acheived by any student is silly.

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

It's already been said but I'll add my two cents..

All systems of timed examination are detrimental to the students and limits their opportunity to display the extent of the their knowledge, whilst also promotes a 'need to know' culture where students simply memorise the right answers for the right questions but in the long term don't retain this information.

We need to have coursework/learning portfolio submissions to be used as the criteria at which learning is judged as that requires more independent work to be produced from the students and reflects the true state of a student's knowledge much more effectively.

However, despite all of this, I get very annoyed at the 'intellectual' middle classes who insult the the hard work of students by making claims that the tests are getting easier. That is simply a falsehood invented for the paranoid who do not like the idea of not being the intellectual superiors that they thought they were. Standards in education have improved and I'm not going to say that the education system is perfect as it is indeed far from it, but we are getting better grades because of better schooling.

I'm no fan of Labour and I'm even less of a fan of Ed Balls, but this clip from when he was the Education Minister perfectly sums up my feelings on the issue:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNR0AuGnoUg[/youtube]

 

[Dave]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

The only issue with scrapping exams is that some subjects (especially in the fields of science and mathematics) don't really warrant levels of discussion, they simply want to see if you know something, a well formed examination proves this knowledge.

Course work is much more suitable for areas of a subject that require discussion and reasoning. The best examples of essay/ exam mix i found was at University, they always seemed to use the best tool for testing knowledge based on what was been assessed.

As for examinations getting easier, in some respects they have and i blame that more on exam boards having to compete to get schools to use them. A school stuck in a culture of league tables would be foolish to not choose an exam board that gives there students the best chance. THAT SAID i do think certain aspects of society do over-egg the pudding when it comes to claiming that exams are easier... it's foolish to think that children and young adults are not actually just getting cleverer as they are. So really it's a bit of both worlds.

We need to move away from an obsession with academic demand and take each child as an individual and give them an education that suits them. Why make a child who isn't the most academic feel second class by forcing them through a set curriculum with nothing that stimulates them when they may excel in other fields. Just seems stupid to me.

 

[Stelios]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

At the age of 14 is too premature to decide higher or lower is ridiculous. Many students don't knuckle down until Year 10. Many pupils know they can do better so the freedom to choose a higher or lower GCSE paper should be a stable in any education for the confidence of the teenagers.

40% A-C grades on average seems like made up hoo-ha from the media if you ask me. Easier but more consistent exams like GCSE's I believe would be better for morale and less work than one big exam.

Besides, Tories might possibly be out before the first O-levels will be taken anyway unless they'll have them scattered about like the minority of GCSE modules.

I think trialling this could be good to "toughen" students up. But I fear the pressure for the teens of the future.

 

[SLC]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

I would say I'm a bright kid, but I'm finding GCSEs extremely difficult to do. Fair enough, I probably don't revise as much as I should, but still, I think it should be about how much you learn in class rather than how much you revise.

I agree with having more coursework. It really encourages pupils to give their work a more personal touch. Last year I did media a year early, and it was really fun because the majority was coursework. There was still an exam, but it asked you to think of a plot for a film, for example.

 

[James]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

This higher tier and lower tier malarky annoys me.

Many yonks ago there was no such thing, an exam was an exam.

All students should have the opportunity, or ability to get whatever grade they are capable of. Instead of using a system that pretty much separates the less abled students from the more abled ones. It cracks me up that if you do higher tier you're taught far more than a lower tier student. ALL students should be taught the same thing. The segregation of 'thick' students from 'clever' ones is rather appalling and just shows how badly organised the current systems are.

 

[ketch]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

First post on here/TTF for a good 4 years but this topic interested me as I have just gone through the whole UK exam structure from GCSEs up to finishing university. Anyway...

Playing devils advocate here but didn't anyone else find GCSEs a bit too easy? I went to an average state school and got mostly A's despite the fact I barely did any work during the two years of GCSEs except during study leave where I did do some serious revision (And I'm no academic powerhouse).

I just think a system where students (I'm sure I am not alone here) can coast for a majority of the time and just cram at the last minute and achieve good grades needs serious reform.

But URGH, just the other day I was ranting about how ludicrous it is that A2 English students are not allowed texts in their exams.

Really? I did English A2, 3 years ago and if anything I found the modules that were open book (we were allowed to make notes in our own texts and take them into the exam) were much harder as it was far more difficult to deliver a stand out answer as everyone just recited what the teacher had taught them in the lesson where we covered the topic being examined on. This combined with the fact that some students just wrote mini-essays in their copies of the book and just copied them out in the exam pretty much rendered the assessment useless for testing the ability to students.

In contrast, for our Shakespeare exam you truly had to learn about the multiple dimensions of the characters in order to understand the whole play as opposed to the key flashpoints you had to learn about for the open book exam. Therefore, I believe this gave us a better understanding of the play than we would have, had we just recited exactly what the teacher taught us for the exam.

Why not do something moderately useful to the GCSE syllabus like abolishing the abomination that is controlled assessment and bringing back coursework?!

Surely coursework is just as broken as exams. Yeah sure, some people don't deal well with pressure of exams but it's better than coursework where plagiarism is rampant. While exams are not perfect I truly believe they are the lesser of two evils as in that exam room all candidates (in theory) are on an equal playing field. I know the quality of schools differ but that also applies to coursework as the children who go to better schools also receive more help at home than those from a poorer and less educated background.

EDIT: Also for subjects like Medicine and Engineering where mistakes can be the difference between life and death surely exams in a pressured environment are a much better method of assessment than coursework as students who enter these professions will be under much more stressful conditions than exams in their actual professions.

 

[Alastair]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

However, despite all of this, I get very annoyed at the 'intellectual' middle classes who insult the the hard work of students by making claims that the tests are getting easier. That is simply a falsehood invented for the paranoid who do not like the idea of not being the intellectual superiors that they thought they were. Standards in education have improved and I'm not going to say that the education system is perfect as it is indeed far from it, but we are getting better grades because of better schooling.

Very nicely put. I despise it when you hear people saying "my O-Levels were easily as hard as your A Levels are now." There is no clear comparison and it certainly does degrade the work done by students having to abide by the current system - there being little to no other choice. I hope that Gove gives up on his stupid ideas, surely he will get no support for implementing them anyway?

 

[BigT]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

I think a step needs to be taken back and the question asked "what is the purpose of exams?".
The answer to this is to find out which students are more suited to different roles, cleverer students are more suited to become doctors and thicker students like me are more suited to become plumbers etc.
Does this mean to say I'm a lesser person because I'm thick, no it doesn't, I can still make an excellent living,
but by the same token I wouldn't want my knee replaced by me either!
So are GCSE fit for this purpose? No because a 90 odd persent pass rate does not achieve what is intended by sorting out the wheat from the chaf, so a new system is needed.
What system this should I don't know, but I think it will be very difficult to come up with an answer that will suit everyone with an age related system so maybe test every year to decide who has reached the level required to advance to the next year, rather than advance on age alone.

 

[Dar]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

My issue with exams like Math is that they don't examine your knowledge and ability to apply that knowledge. They test your memory skills, being able to remember a certain formula and the like. In the real world, what you are supposedly being prepared for, you could look up formula and not have to remember them by rote.

 

[Andrew]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

I've often said that exams should be scrapped altogether for one reason:

Some people, who are clever and work hard, may become extremely nervous in exam conditions, and thus, mess up their chances of getting a good job. In contrast, a person who does not do any work at all may fluke their exams and get a good job, which is completely unfair!

So, exams should be scrapped, and instead, your final grade should go off coursework. That way, people do not get as nervous as in exams, and if people choose not to work, then it's their own fault that they can't get a good job!

 

[BigT]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

I've often said that exams should be scrapped altogether for one reason:

Some people, who are clever and work hard, may become extremely nervous in exam conditions, and thus, mess up their chances of getting a good job. In contrast, a person who does not do any work at all may fluke their exams and get a good job, which is completely unfair!

So, exams should be scrapped, and instead, your final grade should go off coursework. That way, people do not get as nervous as in exams, and if people choose not to work, then it's their own fault that they can't get a good job!

The problem with coursework is it is very easy to cheat making that unfair too.
Exam conditions are a level playing field but are not ideal either, a mixture of the two is fair but GCSE are too easy, as most people pass them.
I'm not getting into the argument about whether they have got easier, I'm just saying they are too easy and are no longer fit for purpose.

 

[Maya]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

I'm in year 7 now, and with out boasting, I'm one of the more... brighter kids in my year.
From what my mum's told me, O-levels are about getting the smarter kids on the higher exams and the less bright kids on the lower exams? And that sounds good to me, because now I'm already thinking about the Gcse's, and how I can gain as many as I can.
However from what I've seen on the internet, its just the one or two tests that count for the grade- not any course work etc. I think having course work is better. Like someone said above, I get nervous so easily. Last year in my SAT's test I compleatly mucked up my english, and as english is my best subject, I was in tears for days, because I worked so hard for it, and the fact that I knew what I did wrong.
I got a 4c in the end... With my target level the highest posible, it was terrible :3 Luckily my teacher had done something, telling my new english teachers or who ever what I'd done, I did get put in the top set in the end, but if I were to much up in a proper exam, it would be the end :3 Can you imagine what I'd be like, if I was crying for days after a silly little SAT?

 

[Islander]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

The only issue with scrapping exams is that some subjects (especially in the fields of science and mathematics) don't really warrant levels of discussion, they simply want to see if you know something, a well formed examination proves this knowledge.

Interestingly, that's shifting somewhat. Look at the new GCSE spec (which lasted all of one year) - here's a specimen paper. Take a look in particular at the six-mark questions.

Of course they require fact recall, but they also require a certain level of discussion. Look at the mark scheme - to get top marks in those six mark questions, candidates need to give an answer in which "All information ... is relevant, clear, organised and presented in a structured and coherent format. Specialist terms are used appropriately. Few, if any, errors in grammar, punctuation and spelling." All of that's important, but... I dunno. I don't really think it's what we should be looking for if we're assessing how good someone is at Science, to put it crudely.

These 'extended answer' questions in what I would consider a fact-based subject are becoming more prevalent, presumably because somewhere it's been decided that it's something Science lacks. It's much worse in coursework, where anything up to 50% of the mark will have little to do with the Scientific content, and be centred around the style, presentation etc.

It cracks me up that if you do higher tier you're taught far more than a lower tier student.

I teach two Y10 classes, a set 2 group and a set 3 group (where set 1 is high ability, and set 3 is lower ability). The difference in ability between my set 2 and my set 3 students is startling. I can have a concept which will take 30 minutes for me to teach to my set 2s, whilst with set 3 it could take two one hour lessons. I'm absolutely not exaggerating - I did it with Work Done and Power the other week. Imagine what set 1 might be like.

That is not in any way to belittle set 3 - I'm not saying they're 'thick', they just take a little longer to grasp concepts as it's not their forte, just as it would take a huge amount of time and effort for me to even begin to learn a language, for instance.

Now, with this in mind, you have no choice, logistically if nothing else, to teach different ability kids different quantities of material. And with that being the case, why make things 10x harder for lower ability kids by rushing to cover content that they're not going to get without a disproportionate amount of work anyway. Equally, why turn to higher ability kids and say "sorry, we're not going to stretch you, because others won't get it". Massively unfair.

In my own opinion, the worst, worst thing you can do in Education is aim for the middle, and ignore the top and bottom. The only way you can hit the whole spectrum is to differentiate content.

 

[Moley]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

It must be said, it is spectacular timing to announce that GCSEs are as good as worthless while kids are revising for/doing them.

 

[Tim]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

To address what a few of you have said about exams I wouldn’t necessarily say exams are currently easier. I really struggled with exams and there’s nothing more infuriating than seeing some lay about get top marks when you only get a pass for months of hard work. The reason that this seems to be possible is because exams in their current state are all about exam technique. If you have that technique you can breeze through them (the system is designed for you to succeed) but if you don’t you’ll struggle and it’s not something that’s easy to learn. This seems to be the main reason why so many more people are being diagnosed with Dyslexia and other such conditions. It’s not that there are more people with these conditions around it’s because they need to be classified as such to explain why they are struggling. In fact calling it a condition feels wrong in my opinion because those that are classed as such normally excel in other areas just like anyone else only their held back by their weakness of not being what society classes as normal.

That’s what I’ve come to understand anyway and of course I am generalising hugely. All I want is a more balanced system where people can be assessed in a way that is good for them and will help with their future career. I don’t have any real solution as to how, however I’m definitely against politicians constantly interfering with the education system to this degree. Every time they make a big shake up it just seems to distract even more from allowing teachers to teach.

Edit: having just read Islander's post I have to agree on what he said about extended answer. This was where I lost a lot of marks on what was otherwise a strong subject for me.

 

[Jonathan]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

In my own opinion, the worst, worst thing you can do in Education is aim for the middle, and ignore the top and bottom. The only way you can hit the whole spectrum is to differentiate content.

Couldn't agree more, Mark. In my secondary school, I was (without wishing to blow my own trumpet too much) one of the top students, but for my GCSEs, I just felt that I wasn't really being pushed enough to get higher grades - the school was trying to ensure that as many students as possible got five GCSEs from A*-C, which was rather annoying. Schools should focus more on improving grades - value-added results - rather than on making sure that every student gets the bare minimum of what is perceived to be 'good'. I have a suspicion that schools which have ridiculously high pass rates of - shall we say, 90%+ - are academically selective as it is, and only select the best pupils, thereby making their pass rates higher. Education, to me, is about helping students to improve their knowledge and achieve better results than they initially would have, not solely about maintaining the status quo with which schools and politicians seem to have become too comfortable with.

 

[delta79]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

This two tier exam system idea. In my opinion will make a new class system, based on education. and the losers with be the bright people that can not use written English correctly. They will be dumped on the lower tier and wont get time to shine.

It must be said, it is spectacular timing to announce that GCSEs are as good as worthless while kids are revising for/doing them.

Had a student at work loose it when revising today. The pressure is on and this announcement does not help this years students focus on getting the grade they deserve.

but didn't anyone else find GCSEs a bit too easy? I went to an average state school and got mostly A's despite the fact I barely did any work during the two years of GCSEs except during study leave where I did do some serious revision

I was told i would never get high marks. I knew I would never get a good grade in English due to my dyslexia. but I believed I could get good marks. so I worked hard with the help of SpLD (now called SEN) teacher, science was not too bad as it was a subject I understood.

Maths was the killer, but I needed it to do a electrical maintenance course. So I pushed at it, my maths teacher could see the hard work i was putting in and worked with my SpLD teacher to give me the best chance of getting the grade i could achieve.

I came away with a C in maths. double award science, both Bs. and a B in 3D art.

So what is the base line of what has been said about GCSEs, All my hard works amounted to diddy swot. And all the hard work of the student at work is all for nothing ?

 

[ketch]

Re: GCSE's to be Scrapped

So what is the base line of what has been said about GCSEs, All my hard works amounted to diddy swot. And all the hard work of the student at work is all for nothing ?

The hard work of students is most definitely not all for nothing and in most cases those who work hard will probably do better than had they not worked hard. My point about being able to cram in a relatively short period was merely meant to display how the current exam system is more orientated around exam technique and strategy rather than raw knowledge and understanding (factors I believe I lacked in certain areas *cough Maths, German cough*), which are elements that some people are able to do better in than others (admittedly in retrospect I should have made that point clearer in my post).

The current exam system I believe is flawed but I think the government is going to need to do more than merely creating a two tier system that will further incapacitate those who are highly intelligent but not necessarily suited to academic pursuits that would be examined through these so called 'rigorous' exams.