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Haunted House or Toyland Tours; which of the 1990s classic Wardley dark rides did you prefer?

Haunted House or Toyland Tours?

  • Total voters
    38
Trooper Looper said:
. The fact that even kids today still loved Bubbleworks says a lot that people's taste I theme parks hasn't changed all that much in the last 30 years, given the fact that they also grew up with the Gruffalo and still prefer Bubbleworks over the River Ride, what else needs to be said?
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Out of interest, what age are the “kids” you’re talking about? Are you talking Chessington’s current clientele, or older “kids” (so more like our age)?

I was only curious because I was intrigued to know the sort of sample you’re working with here. Is this people you know who’ve ridden Bubbleworks, or is this more generally?
 
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John Wardley's Dark Rides did have a special quality to them that made them better than a standard dark ride. It was common at the time for most parks to:
1. Try and be Disney by copying their classics.
2. Fill a ride with lots of props and animatronics without much thought into creating distinct scenes.
This second point was what really made his rides stand out. He came from a theatre background and did a good job setting up a scene to present a good memorable gag, then moving onto the next.

However his rides real appeal was that they were perfect for a British audience. Dark Rides in other countries often feel odd because as a foreign tourist the ride doesn't connect with you. It's why Disney have had to reinvent a lot of their rides for new markets as the original meanings don't always land. So his rides weren't necessarily better than others around the world but they were a great fit for the parks they were built at.

Unfortunately I think if the rides were still around now (and like at Europa and Efteling for example were still in great condition) they probably would be seen as irreplaceable classics. Once a parent can say "I rode this as a child and now my Children are riding it" an attraction starts to take on a timeless quality. But none of them lasted that long.
 
Matt N said:
Out of interest, what age are the “kids” you’re talking about? Are you talking Chessington’s current clientele, or older “kids” (so more like our age)?

I was only curious because I was intrigued to know the sort of sample you’re working with here. Is this people you know who’ve ridden Bubbleworks, or is this more generally?
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By looking at a lot of Bubbleworks POVs, you can see a lot of comments are coning from a variety of kids, from 8 year olds, to teens. You can just tell by how they just text their comments on youtube, and given the fact thelat their accounts are only a few years old

Literally on any POV, you'll find at least 3 comments saying either #byebyebubbleworks, #bringbackbubbleworks, or someone going on how they miss it and that the Gruffalo River Ride sucks. There's a lot of them...

Loads of Parents took their kids into Bubbleworks as they did as well. The reason why Bubbleworks is the only dark ride out of Wardleys collection to have this reputation is because it actually managed to live longer than 15 years, unlike 2 others...

If the HH and Toyland Tours had a few extra years of operating, they'd probably be in Bubbleworks state, having countless parents take their kids on a ride the rode when they were younger, loving it, and have the kids do the same to their own kids in the future. But that never happened to either as they only operated for only 10-12 years unfortunately, and the lack of maintenance, which Bubbleworks had no problem with before Imperial Leather came along...

British Dark rides are beginning to feel more commercial than British or Theatrical.
They don't feel remotely British anymore.
 
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In that case, I apologise. The demand for these rides to come back is clearly stronger than I thought it was, and the rides would have stood the test of time much better than I was making out, so I was clearly wrong.

I apologise for having challenged you; I overstepped my bounds, as you clearly have far more knowledge and/or experience of the Wardley dark rides than myself.
 
We have discussed this before @Trooper Looper - I think all those dark rides of the Wardley era were unquestionably great rides, but they were removed before they were the highly renowned 'classics' of today. I think the deep affection for them has come after they are gone and they're remembered as potentially better than they were, often by people that never rode them.

That's not to suggest people didn't like them at the time, of course they did - but only with 20 years hindsight do you look back at them, compare them to what replaced them and wonder if it was the right call. That's a perfectly natural way of looking at things.

*Broken record alert* - I also think that the level at which enthusiasts enjoy dark rides is very different - on the whole, nostalgia doesn't play into it as much as you'd think. What an enthusiast considers retro, I think a lot of the public just consider old and tired. As much as people liked Bubbleworks - even the weaker iteration, Gruffalo has been a huge hit for the park and is the right ride for today, for my money.

I include myself in that to a degree, I almost always ride the River Caves when visiting the Pleasure Beach, it's part of the itinerary with the guys and I enjoy it at least in part because I've been riding it for 30+ years - but I recall talking to some folks at work who were pretty horrified when they rode it thinking it felt tired, run down, culturally inappropriate and the unsteady nature of the boats to be quite unnerving.

Don't be sad it's over, be happy that it happened.

Matt N said:
In that case, I apologise. The demand for these rides to come back is clearly stronger than I thought it was, and the rides would have stood the test of time much better than I was making out, so I was clearly wrong.
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No you weren't.
 
Matt N said:
In that case, I apologise. The demand for these rides to come back is clearly stronger than I thought it was, and the rides would have stood the test of time much better than I was making out, so I was clearly wrong.

I apologise for having challenged you; I overstepped my bounds, as you clearly have far more knowledge and/or experience of the Wardley dark rides than myself.
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Lol, no I don't have that much knowledge XD

BOW DOWN TO YOUR GOD!!!

You're not wrong in any case, mate, so don't apologise :)

It's not knowledge, it's just my first hand experience with YouTube. Weird platform...
 
To be honest, I think @Rick quite succinctly summed up exactly what I've been trying to get at for the past few posts, as I've found myself nodding in agreement at much of his post. As Rick put it; as much as these rides were loved at the time, I think whether these classics would still be the "right rides" for the current era, as well as where their modern day reputation is coming from, is potentially up for debate.

I do question how much of the Wardley classics' modern reputation is based off of nostalgia, whether that be borrowed nostalgia or people's own nostalgia. From my own experience, nostalgia can be a very powerful thing in terms of embellishing things to make them better than they actually were.
 
Definitely, with Bubbleworks easily being the most affected with Nostalgia, and Maybe Toyland Tours in 2nd place.

@Rick I'd love to ride the River caves, looks like a well themed ride, with definitely outdated animatromics, but still a very charming attraction.

By no means I don't think my appreciation to the Haunted House is based of shared nostalgia, I always loved it's theming as Duel before even knowing its history.

Well, might as Well enjoy what's left of The Haunted House before its torn down in the next 5 years for the next SW...
 
@Trooper Looper Fair enough! I can definitely see why you like Duel/HH's theming, and from my standpoint; as much as it's not my favourite dark ride in terms of how it is currently as well as in terms of the way the concept was executed (I personally prefer the more ambient story-led style of Disney's Haunted Mansion), I do absolutely love the "spooky house" dark ride concept, as well as things like the facade and queue! I will also digress that some of the theming is very impressive, and for the era it was built in (the early 90s), the ride was absolutely revolutionary, and an absolute smash hit!

As much as I may harp on about how I question the extent to which nostalgia shaped the reputation of the Wardley classics, as well as whether they would still stand up reviews-wise (as well as in suiting the park) today, I definitely don't think nostalgia is the sole cause of their reputation by any stretch, merely a significant contributing factor; the rides had to have had a base level of quality and fun factor to gain such a reputation in the first place!

In spite of the argument I've been making for the previous few posts, I can definitely think of case studies of similarly aged rides where even 90s nostalgia couldn't embellish them to be seen as revered attractions. For instance, X:\No Way Out at Thorpe Park still gets almost universally panned, in spite of it now having been gone for a not insignificant amount of time, as well as it being an attraction of the same era as HH...
 
Yeah, X isn't the best of rides, mostly for its low budget and 90s cheesy theming which aged badly.

Anyway, back to Duel, I just really love for what it is as I can't think of another attraction remotely similar to it. It sticks out like a sore thumb. As you said, you prefer the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland, yet I'm not a huge fan of it, as The HH takes the cake for me.
For a discussion loke this, there really isn't a right or wrong, it's just preference.
 
Trooper Looper said:
Anyway, back to Duel, I just really love for what it is as I can't think of another attraction remotely similar to it. It sticks out like a sore thumb. As you said, you prefer the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland, yet I'm not a huge fan of it, as The HH takes the cake for me.
For a discussion loke this, there really isn't a right or wrong, it's just preference.
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I think when taking HH/Duel in the context of the time it was built in, I can definitely see why John Wardley and Keith Sparks took the route they did with the Haunted House, as much as it might not be my personal preference for the spooky house concept.

The industry at the time had more than enough Disney wannabes, so I can imagine that the Haunted House (and this goes for Wardley’s other rides too) was a real breath of fresh air!

Rightly or wrongly, I think John Wardley’s dark rides looked to have a very distinctive flavour to them, and I personally feel that this unique feel may well have worked in their favour. In general, John Wardley was someone who liked to shy away from cliches and be quite bold and different, and that is one of the things I admire most about him, as well as why I think he is/was such a revered designer. While I personally see nothing wrong with cliches or more vanilla designs (Vanilla is one of my favourite ice cream flavours; if it ain’t broke, why fix it?), I do admire those who think outside the box and deviate from the norm for sure.

To an extent, I do think that the desire to shy away from cliches and be bold and different has actually stayed as a fairly consistent pillar of the creative mentality throughout the UK Merlin parks’ recent history. Admittedly, I think that desire now manifests itself in very different ways to how it did back in the 90s, but I do think it’s still there. Look at Thorpe Park’s Project Exodus, or Chessington’s Project Amazon, for instance; those two look to be really unique, and totally outside the norm compared to any other ride of their type!

Or through the sphere of dark rides; Derren Brown’s Ghost Train is phenomenally unique and bold, and as much as its success is up for debate, I do admire the sheer amount of balls and risk-taking that led to its conception on the creatives’ part, as well as the general attitude the designers must have taken during its design!
 
Darren Brown's Ghost train is a perfect example of a ride that needed someone like John Wardley overseeing it. The ride is a mess of different concepts, some of which are quite good. In particular the illusion of the train suspended in mid-air is really cool. But having it be an underground train on the inside is a complete 180 tonal shift that only gets more muddled from that point onwards.
Sub-Terra was the same. I still argue it was a few iterations off being a fantastic Dark Ride. But there was no flow to the story, things just happened without much theatrical flair.

Having said that if John Wardley's original rides were still open and in good condition today I think they'd also struggle to hit as well with a modern market as they did when they opened. I don't think we should see the Haunted House brought back or Toyland Tours.
However there are elements of these rides that would still work today:
- The Haunted House's facade, tone and speed-up, slow down style of ride system (be it the same or updated) could work great as a new ride.
- The Bubbleworks quirky fizzy pop factory would look amazing with modern effects and with an updated set of gags.
- The 5th Dimension failed because the concept was too far ahead of its time. But Interactive rides and the Sci-Fi story would be really popular today (maybe not at Chessington with its around the world theme but there's no reason the concept can't be used elsewhere).
- Toyland Tours is also a solid idea although maybe that one would be a hard sell as a new ride today.
 
I agree with the Bubbleworks part, it definitely needed some tech upgrades and new jokes, like Professor Burp in the office could've been given much more fluid movement, the only room that wouldn't really need upgrading is probably the fountain finale. Bubbleworks would probably be the most likely to be brought back to the Fizzy Pop factory, since that concept really can't become outdated because of its simplicity.

Toyland tours would be really hard to market well, since most kids are into Video Games nowerdays. The only way i could see Toyland Tours brought back is have 2/3 of the scenes completely re-imagined. Probably have a new IP in the sonic room, maybe Lego? Maybe Skylanders?

The HH on the other hand is a 50/50
People will think it's to slow and boring, and the other half will love its atmosphere and theatrical props. Though it's probably the cheapest of all the revivals, it's also the most unlikely, as we see that Merlin don't give a damn about the ride currently as Duel

The 5th Dimension however, would fit like a glove In the modern UK Theme Park Industry, with updated theming and effects of course? With it often being overlooked by almost everyone, its reputation really isn't based of nostalgia, but how ahead of its time it's story, concept, and characters were. But which variant are you talking about? The 87 variant of the 88 variant?
 
Out of interest, did John Wardley actually design The Fifth Dimension? I always thought that was externally designed as opposed to having been handled by Wardley himself, but I could be wrong there.
 
In fairness all of these rides were a collaborative effort. One person alone can't build a dark ride any more than one person can control every detail in a TV series.
As far as I'm aware John Wardley took what you'd now call the creative lead on all of them but his level of involvement would have been different for each.

@Trooper Looper as for your question on the 5th Dimension I can't remember the difference between the 87 and 88 variant. Never rode either of them. Doesn't matter either way as I wasn't suggesting a rebuild. Just a concept revival.
To quote Disney's Imagineers "A good idea never dies".
 
Supposing that the Rapids seem to be getting some work done during this year's closed season? Could we see the same for Duel during the closed season, as only a few of the blasters were working during the last few weeks of 2021 Season? I don't think it's a coincidence that Katanga Canyon and Gloomy Wood are turning 30 this year and the Rapids is having work done to it around the waterfalls.
 
Trooper Looper said:
Supposing that the Rapids seem to be getting some work done during this year's closed season? Could we see the same for Duel during the closed season, as only a few of the blasters were working during the last few weeks of 2021 Season? I don't think it's a coincidence that Katanga Canyon and Gloomy Wood are turning 30 this year and the Rapids is having work done to it around the waterfalls.
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Wouldn’t surprise me; a fair bit of work happened last off-season! And as you say, I could see them wanting to do something for the 30th anniversary!
 
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